Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I know it's not a super popular opinion, but I don't consider us more then halfway done with the Waystone project. As far as I'm concerned what got this project started was Eonir idea of funneling the Waystone magic into some sort of Super Magic Project, and we've gotta at least try to figure out how to accomplish that.

Plus there's the Nexus stuff, and we wanna make sure it get's wheeled around to the other countries at some point, and it might be nice to make one more variant.

Don't get me wrong, super happy with the progress we've made, wild success. I still consider it to be only the minimum we'd need for this to be a success (not counting improved diplomatic relationships), and we should at least try for the stretch goals before we kick our feet back and declare the project finished.
The Waystone Project is interesting in the sense that unlike Sitrland (getting fired), Eight Peaks (retaking them all), and Karag Dum (getting Back) there's no obvious end point to the task. In theory, you could go to Turn 54 with this stuff (which is about where we'd be if we're currently half way), or even Turn 100. I'm just not sure too many people would go for that.

It might be a case though where, even once the Fellowship of the Waystone (we need to come up with a name for the crew for posterity, and a team portrait like with the Eight Peaks Wizards!) it doesn't end in the way the others did but is a background thing we come back to now and again even with future endeavors. Like, how do you take back three nexuses (am I getting that number right?) from the Forest of Shadows? To me, that's less a 'Waystone Research' thing and more an entire arc of building alliances and such leading to a massive military campaign like Karag Dum was but on an even bigger scale. Maybe that's better served as a project undertaken while Supreme Matriarch or something. Or maybe pursuing research into Nehekara's network is part and parcel of learning the language as part of some big Old One linguistics project like some thread members have pushed for. I don't know what the next thing would be post-Waystones, but Waystones feeds into a lot of potential next arc ideas pretty well such that even if we did end the point of the project where we're committing the majority of our AP per Turn on it we wouldn't be moving on entirely for as long as Mathilda lives
 
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It might be a case though where, even once the Fellowship of the Waystone (we need to come up with a name for the crew for posterity, and a team portrait like with the Eight Peaks Wizards!) it doesn't 'end' in the way the others did but is a background thing we come back to now and again even with future endeavors
I'm pretty sure boney has said this is not happening even though it would make sense in universe to maintain as a zombie institution for the continued prestige of the members, because narratively it's much better for there to be a clear endcap at some point.
 
I'm pretty sure boney has said this is not happening even though it would make sense in universe to maintain as a zombie institution for the continued prestige of the members, because narratively it's much better for there to be a clear endcap at some point.
Well, never mind all of that then 😆 That probably is the better idea for the quest though so I'm not too disappointed. Knowing that, I can see throwing maybe three or four more Turns at it after elfcation Turn 45 as a pallet cleanser of sorts. That would have things wrap up for Turn 50 which is relevant as both just a big thread and story type milestone and a potential inflection point with the Super Matriarch dual possibility if that's something we wanted to pursue. I'm sure there will be no downside to trying to plan six turns and three years in advance in that sense 😆
 
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I am pretty strongly against the boat, so don't take this as a partisan supporting their preferred option, but AFAIK this is untrue. Boney has said that we will have the option of getting involved in the construction and spending AP on it, but not that it will be required. We can just kick it and wait until we get it, if we want. If there's been WoQM about any AP cost involved as a requirement of any sort, it's news to me.
I don't think the thread would be physically capable of not getting involved in the construction of the boat.
 
Like, how do you take back three nexuses (am I getting that number right?) from the Forest of Shadows? To me, that's less a 'Waystone Research' thing and more an entire arc of building alliances and such leading to a massive military campaign like Karag Dum was but on an even bigger scale.
The Forest of Shadows nexuses are practically the only nexuses that are available to be reclaimed. Boney's mentioned that there is going to be a Nexus Reclamation action once there are more than just the Marcher Fortress as an option, because it would be rather difficult to do that. The nexus investigation options have our options to reclaim in them. We can eliminate Marienburg; we're not going to kick off a war between civilized nations. Los Cabos is in Estalia and is held by civilized hands. Bugman's Brewery is abandoned and doesn't need to be reclaimed from anyone. That leaves the three Forest of Shadow nexuses and Mordheim.

Mordheim at least should be relatively simple to reclaim if it is repairable. But coalition building for the nexus would probably be part of the action. We go to the local military power, convince them of the benefits, and go to other places to rally support. It might would involve building some waystones to show off. Personally I like the concept and there's still some important unfinished business with the Project even ignoring the nexuses.

I've been meaning to put a 'Nexus Reclamation' action in somewhere once there was more than the Marcher Fortress to go in there, because the Marcher Fortress would be particularly challenging to try to repossess.
[ ] Waystone: Nexuses
Specify which: Marienburg (Almshoven and Fort Solace), Forest of Shadows (Brass Keep, Blood Fane, Tower of Melkhior), Mordheim, Los Cabos, Bugman's Brewery.
 
I am invested in nexuses more than any other exploration. This is our best contribution to the old world.

This means that should the ship win I will still fight to push the ship towards operating in the old world.
 
Regarding letting go of Mathilde's control of the EIC: if that is the eventual plan, I'd be keen to see if we can use it as a testbed for Waystone barges beforehand. IIRC Alratan's original conception of the plan was as a polity-level programme and Mathilde and the Waystone Project almost certainly have the influence for that at this point; nonetheless, being able to work out any kinks (magical or procedural) and identify relevant opportunities beforehand (each of which should be easier in a smaller institution that Mathilde has a good deal of awareness and control over) and simultaneously demonstrate their applicability in an environment as notorious as Stirland/Sylvania would be valuable. This, after all, would be an entirely novel Waystone deployment system - best to make sure it gets done right!

(It would also leave the EIC with their own Dhar-cleansing capabilities for use, I would imagine, primarily in Stirland. I suspect that would be personally satisfying for Mathilde - not merely changing that part of the world for the better but putting another guarantee in place that it stays that way.)
 
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Sorry should have been clearer, quick summary of the basic idea
1. old holds know about the karak waystones but because it's a secret they don't talk about it to anyone outside of king and heir (possibly) or within clans of royal and runesmith. (Possible they don't know considering the rune of eternity and all)
2. Since it's controlled and operated from Karaz a Karak it is only talked about if not openly at least slightly more of inside of their halls.
3. Considering the war of the beard separation violence and numbers. The entire event could be considered a battlefield amputation, no more need of the elgi we can power it ourselves. Then the time of woes.
4. If we take each hold as an individual as implied each Hold would have a piece of the puzzle, dozens of major holds were lost.

In summary the gist of it was because so much time passed it the secrets fell out of use, then out of the minds of dawi. Royal clans are expected to be leaders and the Time of Woes would have seen kings, heirs and spares falling like dominoes. All it takes is one inopportune death for knowledge to die. Considering the seeming athema to recording knowledge outside of the minds and private vaults it could die at any point. I mean an entire nexus was left in storage since the war at Barak Varr, who knows what's rolling around in sealed vaulrs?
 
Regarding letting go of Mathilde's control of the EIC: if that is the eventual plan, I'd be keen to see if we can use it as a testbed for Waystone barges beforehand. IIRC Alratan's original conception of the plan was as a polity-level programme and Mathilde and the Waystone Project almost certainly have the influence for that at this point; nonetheless, being able to work out any kinks (magical or procedural) and identify relevant opportunities beforehand (each of which should be easier in a smaller institution that Mathilde has a good deal of awareness and control over) and simultaneously demonstrate their applicability in an environment as notorious as Stirland/Sylvania would be valuable. This, after all, would be an entirely novel Waystone deployment system - best to make sure it gets done right!

(It would also leave the EIC with their own Dhar-cleansing capabilities for use, I would imagine, primarily in Stirland. I suspect that would be personally satisfying for Mathilde - not merely changing that part of the world for the better but putting another guarantee in place that it stays that way.)
I've seen 'Waystone Barges' or variations as an idea a couple times but never seen the root idea of what that actually means. Any chance at all you have a link to that? In isolation my knee jerk reaction is to think that putting long term infrastructure with nebulous at best profit incentives in the hands of a trade company that exists first and foremost to create profit is just an inherently bad idea on the face of it. I'm probably just misunderstanding you, but privatizing the response to climate change might not be in the best long term interest of the world 😆
 
I've seen 'Waystone Barges' or variations as an idea a couple times but never seen the root idea of what that actually means. Any chance at all you have a link to that? In isolation my knee jerk reaction is to think that putting long term infrastructure with nebulous at best profit incentives in the hands of a trade company that exists first and foremost to create profit is just an inherently bad idea on the face of it. I'm probably just misunderstanding you, but privatizing the response to climate change might not be in the best long term interest of the world 😆
Ha! Fair concern, though it is worth noting in this case that the EIC has taxation interests in Stirland - keeping the agrarian and craft economies ticking over, which typically means not subsumed by Dhar, is just them protecting their investment! (Plus there's the ethic forcibly instilled in the EIC by Wilhelmina and Mathilde that provides cultural reason for them to do the same.)

In terms of the concept itself, Alratan first speculated on it here and expanded on it here; Boney later confirmed its viability here. Prime has a good summary of the potential applications here.

Edit: Hmm. Looking back, it seems that those taxation interests were - at least initially - in Western Stirland specifically. Not sure if they've bought up any more since (or if that was just Wilhelmina emphasising a particular, but not exclusive, zone of economic influence) but that could create a perverse incentive for the EIC to focus Waystone boats in, arguably, the part of Stirland that least needs it. Something to keep an eye on.
 
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Ha! Fair concern, though it is worth noting in this case that the EIC has taxation interests in Stirland - keeping the agrarian and craft economies ticking over, which typically means not subsumed by Dhar, is just them protecting their investment! (Plus there's the ethic forcibly instilled in the EIC by Wilhelmina and Mathilde that provides cultural reason for them to do the same.)

In terms of the concept itself, Alratan first speculated on it here and expanded on it here; Boney later confirmed its viability here. Prime has a good summary of the potential applications here.

Edit: Hmm. Looking back, it seems that those taxation interests were - at least initially - in Western Stirland specifically. Not sure if they've bought up any more since (or if that was just Wilhelmina emphasising a particular, but not exclusive, zone of economic influence) but that could create a perverse incentive for the EIC to focus Waystone boats in, arguably, the part of Stirland that least needs it. Something to keep an eye on.
Interesting that mobile Waystone is a possibility, although I guess there's no reason why it shouldn't have been. All the more incentive to figuring out how to make our own Waystone network now the way the Karaz Ankor and Kislev have one. For the good of the Empire? Don't be absurd. We've already seen the 'one nexus network' type thing that Reikland has going on. The way I see it, there's no other option but to yoink a Nexus from somewhere and turn it into a battery for some sort of death star super laser we can mount to the skyship.
 
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I'm late to the whole resurgence in voting but I still want to update my vote to include approval votes for newer plans.

Out of all the options I am still the most interested in a ship, but I like all things that fly.
[X] Plan: The Prismatic Wanderer
[X] Plan: The Prismatic Wanderer (Researcher ver)
[X] Plan Tower of Doom! and Research!

It may be a little indecisive given it is now in second place, but I will keep my approval vote for Pickle's plan.
[ ] Plan Pickle Requests mk IV
And add approval an vote for a similar plan.
[X] Plan Not Pickle Requests Variant with Apparitions

And keep my other approval votes.
[X] Outsourcing Apparition hunting and storage to provide us with captured Apparitions for spell creation on request
[X] Save the boon until we choose our next project
 
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So, thought:

If we get the boat, we should look for an arc as the imperial ambassador at large. Have Heidi give us briefings and options, sail across the world to some craziness somewhere that the emperor wants eyes and hands, solve it, come home and sort through any questions raised by the loot.

It lets us get the exploration in, while at the same time gives us power (THE voice of the empire) and responsibility (boss we report back to) as a consequence of the vote for the airship. It leverages our foreign connections and lets us develop more, while refocusing the story on the loyalties divided, this time between the empire and her xenophilia.

Basically I think it would tie the ship into the story in a nice way that lets us center it without losing touch with everything we've built up

Do we need the Empire behind us to have a foreign policy voice? Someone once said Mathilde's nickname among the Grey Lords Magister should be 'Her Own Personal Foreign Policy' and while that was made in jest I'd say it's more and more true. Between the assassination of a monarch, all the canals, the hand we had in shaping the Boka Palace Accords, all the Waystone deals in general I think it is fair to say we are beyond doing the Empire's foreign policy. We are the person who calls up the Imperial Navy and asks: 'Would you like a new Canal to be able to avoid Marienburg? No, I will not tell you what I did to get it, yes or no?'
 
I know that it probably won't happen, but I can't help but wonder how an interaction between Mathilde and Teclis would go if he chose to invite her to tea while she is on the elfcation.

And a similar one if one of the more important elves in their government asked her to share her opinion regarding how best to mend the rift between them and the Dawi. After all we know that is a thing the High elves were working on in canon.
 
I know that it probably won't happen, but I can't help but wonder how an interaction between Mathilde and Teclis would go if he chose to invite her to tea while she is on the elfcation.
Nudges Ranald.

I think its possible that Eltharion may have mentioned who is behind the Waystone project, and that Teclis may or may not learn of such person swinging by Lothern, and that he may or may not send an invite to chat with one of his students by proxy who has blossomed so well. It may be wishful thinking, but it also does not sound at all impossible.

(OTOH, Never meet your heroes, he famously has charisma as dump stat :V)
 
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I'm not sure why people are pointing to the airships loot capacity when it's been specifically pointed out that the airship sacrifices storage space for speed whilst the tower sacrifices speed for storage space.

We can't have both. That's one of the main differences between them—that the tower can carry more loot, whilst the airship can travel faster.

Honestly, it's getting a bit irksome who every time I try to talk about the tower's benefits someone swoops in and says "but the airship can do that too". No it can't, we can't have our cake and eat it. We either have a private jet or a mobile building. They have different purposes.

Additionally, the tower can be fully automated, whilst the airship requires a living crew. I don't fancy the idea of having a crew of people just hanging around us, I'd rather just keep it to just ourselves and our friends.
 
if he chose to invite her to tea while she is on the elfcation.
It may be wishful thinking, but it also does not sound at all impossible.
That seems to me more likely it may need be the domain of omakes.

Sky-Captain Magda, though content that scaling the Tower of the legendary Elven Archmage had been satisfactorily invigorating to all involved, noted with interest his wide array of potions and tinctures claiming to greatly enhance the virility and stamina of the imbiber.
 
Do we need the Empire behind us to have a foreign policy voice? Someone once said Mathilde's nickname among the Grey Lords Magister should be 'Her Own Personal Foreign Policy' and while that was made in jest I'd say it's more and more true. Between the assassination of a monarch, all the canals, the hand we had in shaping the Boka Palace Accords, all the Waystone deals in general I think it is fair to say we are beyond doing the Empire's foreign policy. We are the person who calls up the Imperial Navy and asks: 'Would you like a new Canal to be able to avoid Marienburg? No, I will not tell you what I did to get it, yes or no?'

At this point, Mathilde Weber has become a nation by herself.
 
I had let the thread idle for a while, but now caught up.
Still favourite vote, but decided to add other favourite options:
[X] Armor of von Tarnus
[X] Plan Tower of Doom! and Research!
[X] Plan: Mammoth Battle Altar Cavalry/Mammothry
Approval vote:
[X] Plan Pickle Requests mk IV
 
I was all for finally going on the Elfcation, but the idea that it would lead to a swift end of the Waystone Project afterwards, maybe even to a direct major vote on what we do next makes me dread it. Dread it enough to reconsider not voting for it.

I have a whole list of things I still want to do regarding the Waystone Project, not all of it one AP affairs. And I know I'm not the only one.
 
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I'm not sure why people are pointing to the airships loot capacity when it's been specifically pointed out that the airship sacrifices storage space for speed whilst the tower sacrifices speed for storage space.

We can't have both. That's one of the main differences between them—that the tower can carry more loot, whilst the airship can travel faster.

Honestly, it's getting a bit irksome who every time I try to talk about the tower's benefits someone swoops in and says "but the airship can do that too". No it can't, we can't have our cake and eat it. We either have a private jet or a mobile building. They have different purposes.

Additionally, the tower can be fully automated, whilst the airship requires a living crew. I don't fancy the idea of having a crew of people just hanging around us, I'd rather just keep it to just ourselves and our friends.
Both have storage space. Like i fully agree, i think that among other things to blame for Prismatic Wanderer catapulting back up, there is certain degree of difference in view of capabilities between those who vote for it and those who don't.

But the ship will have cargo space, because its a ship, and the comparison you are looking for is not Tower - Ship. It's Tower - Ship - Gyrocopter.

Gyrocopter is the ultimate speed demon, vastly faster than the ship, at the cost of far smaller operational radius because it lacks space for sustenance (both for the machine and the crew).

The Tower is big, a home away from home, load up the larder with non-perishables, have your own lab, put Gyrocopter on top for short range sallies, put cannon behind every shuttered window, whatever. But its sloooow.

The ship is in the middle. It has enough speed to be notable (thought i question if enough to be usable in the Alkharad case. The gyrocopter really saved the day there. It is, as i said, a lot faster and it was speed of the essence there. We had to loot stuff before mob got to us). It has enough space that you can stock up for couple of months of independent operation. It just doesn't have nearly as much as Tower, but that still makes it lot more space than gyrocopter had.

But the pick here is between the Ship and Tower, we already have gyrocopter. Its important to keep it in mind tho.
 
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I've mentioned it before, but I think "ask for mega boat and then just wait for it instead of getting involved in it's creation for the fun magic babble scenes, the added customization and/or quality, and to have a major capstone of mathildes windherding" is perhaps the one outcome of this vote that would legit make me kinda angry/upset? Like, I'm not gonna be ecstatic if the boat or a number of other options win, but I'll still be looking forward to how they develop and feature in the future. But going for the boat as a superproject and then not fully committing to it? That would honestly just feel insulting to everyone involved
So I get what you're saying, but consider the counterpoint: that over 60% of the votes cast thus far are not for the boat and that this vote was not set up or flagged as an opportunity to transform the quest's narrative. There is no mandate for making the ship an ongoing commitment, is my point.

Like, I'm going to try to be a good sport if the ship wins. If someone has a cool Windherding idea for it while it's being built, sure, I'll spend an AP on Windherding for it the way I would vote to spend an AP on a different Windherding project. If we have an opportunity for a slightly farther-away adventure like visiting Nehekhara, then yeah, all about the Prismatic Wanderer. But I am going to strenuously resist arguments of the form "well the boat won so obviously that means we should be regularly spending AP on its construction" or "well the boat won so obviously that means we should make managing it an ongoing half-action." Those are separate questions to vote on, not issues that are being tacitly voted on here, and it would not be inconsistent or a betrayal for the thread to vote for a cool-ass boat and then not make it a major narrative element of the quest. It is totally reasonable for some people to go "I want a cool-ass boat so that when I vote for Mathilde to go on an adventure she goes in her cool-ass boat and maybe it gives us air support because that would rule" but otherwise not spend AP on it or pull it to the narrative forefront. That is a real thing that people do in real life, even, so much so that it's a tired punchline!
I feel like I'm missing something here. @picklepikkl you have a really good head for this, do you see any obvious problem? The main problem I have is the narrative oddness, but Boney's been willing in the past to do things as makes sense even if it's unsatisfying narratively.
I'm not totally clear on what you're finding confusing. For instance, I don't actually think all the Runesmith Clans knew that energy was being spent to K-a-K. Or, rather, I think that before the Time of Woes, the leadership of each hold's Runesmith Clan knew, but there's no reason to think the knowledge was more widely spread than that. It would make perfect sense that this knowledge, like knowledge of many runes, was lost in the chaotic every-Hold-for-itself times if leadership got ganked without passing it on. Even if Thorek knew before we told him (and I couldn't find text suggesting that he did, where did you see that?) that's no guarantee that other Runesmith Clans preserved that understanding -- Karak Azul was so isolated it never learned how to make gunpowder, for example, so we know it's an odd duck in other respects.

Basically: can you distill your confusion and use quotes from the quest text to highlight the potential issues?
 
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