Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I was a firm supporter of the air ship agenda but somebody seriously tried to advocate for putting off elfcation until the ship is ready and that alone has me questioning my entire vote because at this point I'd rather Hindenburg the entire vessel on top of our library than use it as a justification for such. Like, how dare you. I'm not fully a convert but a vote for the armor is a vote against such nonsense and the anti-elfcation agenda

I'm sorry pickle forgive me I should have voted it for it last turn😭 I didn't realize when I first read and caught up to the quest that we would still be on the same Turn seven months later!

[X] Armor of von Tarnus
[X] Plan: The Prismatic Wanderer
 
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Then I fail to see the point of your objection. I find "Mathilde the Wizard Knight" to be a fun concept. You don't. That's fine. But it's just a waste of time and effort for both of us to keep telling me why my fun is wrong.

By the nature of the setting this is also a conversation meant to sway others. I was pointing out why I do not find 'knight' persuasive for the benefit of third parties.
 
Re: the Wanderer, for what little it's worth, I too would not wish to delay the Elfcation just to wait for it to be built. At worst, I'd vote to delay the Elfcation because of some kind of emergency happening.

Mind you, that might be happening, with whatever is happening with the Hedgewise, but that's not ship-related.
 
You could put another temporary threadmark that puts up a new vote that narrows down the options to the top three or something and explaining approval voting, giving the vote a more "this is what the thread truly wants" mandate to the end result.

I feel like people shouldn't just try to influence/manage how the QM handles their voting procedures. Especially when they certainly HAVEN'T asked the thread's opinion on the subject.

It's kind of boring and irritating to see the QM having to take litteral hours defending their way of doing things. I'd bet that right now, unsollicitated "advice" and "suggestions" are getting pretty annoying for most of the thread and pretty draining for the QM.
 
I should point out that we can't use the Von Tarnus armour until we have spent one action practicing with it—this will either delay the Elfcation by a turn, or add an AP tax to the Elfcation, making it cost 4AP.

If the armour wins, I think it would be highly unlikely that we'll go on Elfcation next turn.
 
I was a firm supporter of the air ship agenda but somebody seriously tried to advocate for putting off elfcation until the ship is ready and that alone has me questioning my entire vote because at this point I'd rather Hindenburg the entire vessel on top of our library than use it as a justification for such. Like, how dare you. I'm not fully a convert but a vote for the armor is a vote against such nonsense and the anti-elfcation agenda

I'm sorry pickle forgive me I should have voted it for it last turn😭 I didn't realize when I first read and caught up to the quest that we would still be on the same Turn seven months later!

[X] Armor of von Tarnus
[X] Plan: The Prismatic Wanderer

To be fair, I'm not voting for the boat so you make me feel a bit scummy making you reconsider your vote. On the other hand, I absolutely WILL vote to delay the elfcation if the Ship wins AND isn't ready by next turn. So I guess, I'd rather say it before the boon vote closes. Still, I'm only one voter and have't seen much support for my position so I'd think you're safe voting for whatever you want.
 
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[X] Armor of von Tarnus
[X] Plan: The Prismatic Wanderer
[X] Plan Tower of Doom! and Research!

Changing my vote after 3 months huh. Weird.

Anyway I like some things in PIckle requests but it overall feels.... weak. It's too broken up and bitty. Like, this is a big deal. It's a super big deal. We did a big thing and as Boney mentioned, it's important to the seetting that Mathilde as a character is seen to be highly rewarded for it.
An airship or flying tower college mega project does that (and we might be able to squeeze in some windherder practice). Basically lifetime ownership of one of the Colleges' formost artefacts sort of does that. A list of seperate reqests doesn't feel right.

Also I just don't like some of them.

-[] Lights: KAU partnership with the Light Order's Ancient Library
-[] Golds: A We-silk robe enchanted for combat defense
-[] Celestials: Bankroll for upcoming magical curiosities shopping trip in Lothern
-[] Greys: Operatives to expand the reach of the EIC intel network
-[] Jades: Pure CF
-[] Brights: Gyrocarriage enchanted with Inextinguishable Flame
These are fine I guess(although I'm not quite sure why its the golds doing the enchanting rather than the money), and the Jades and Bright request feel slight small but they're fine overall.

-[] Ambers: The secret behind Flock of Doom
-[] Amethysts: Information on what Hexensohn was doing under Drakenhof and why
These ones I actively dislike.

The secret behind flock of doom is probably apparitions again (which we already frankly overpaid for once) and even if its not I'm not sure what we'd do with it. The big thing missing from our kit is inventing cloudkill or learning direct damage battlemagic (HAH), neither of which I think this helps with.

The Amethysts vote just feels meh and like we couldn't think of anything to really do with it.

Hexensohn was an asshole who promised support, tried to accomplish a secret mission while there and fucked up badly and had everyone retreat while he died. So far, so "meh he made the Amethyst college look shitty and unreliable to any Elector counts that might consider hiring Amethyst battle wizards." I might of cared if we'd got answers to this nearer the time, but now I really don't.

Edit: Condensed things a little.
 
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I should point out that we can't use the Von Tarnus armour until we have spent one action practicing with it—this will either delay the Elfcation by a turn, or add an AP tax to the Elfcation, making it cost 4AP.

If the armour wins, I think it would be highly unlikely that we'll go on Elfcation next turn.
You forget that we've been given permission to split the Elfcation's 3 AP cost over two turns. And the armor would be fantastic for the Elfcation, as it'd both add to Mathilde's presence and help her greatly in battle.
 
By the nature of the setting this is also a conversation meant to sway others. I was pointing out why I do not find 'knight' persuasive for the benefit of third parties.
I am going to say this as politely as I can, given that I do not believe you to be arguing in bad faith, but this has been a recurring thing for the past few months -- every time someone brings up that they like the Armor of von Tarnus because they think being a wizard knight is cool, you have quote-replied them to say that Mathilde isn't a knight. Not that you don't think that being a knight is as cool as other things, not that you think it's a less interesting aspect of her character and you would prefer to emphasize one of Mathilde's many other hats, not even that there's some ambiguity involved: that as a question of fact, Mathilde isn't a knight. You have done this with me, you've done this with Derpmind and Deathbybunnies just now, you've done this with other people I am not going to tag because they're not currently involved in this conversation. On the face of it, this is a hard row to hoe, because Mathilde is literally a knight, a fact which you acknowledge and therefore say we should consider the thematic and creative elements in play, which is all very well and good except that at this point we're in the fundamentally semantic and subjective territory of "how close to the central examples of knighthood do you have to be to be a 'real' knight" and "what are the themes of knighthood" and "what are Mathilde's most important themes and attributes, anyway" and "wouldn't it kick ass if we pronounced knight more like how it is spelled, a /knɪxt/ sounds dope as fuck and also like onomatopoeia for sheathing a sword a la Wolverine's /snɪkt/."

That wandered away from me for a bit there. I blame the lack of sleep. My point is that, one, this is a weird thing to be idiosyncratically hung up on given the level of subjectivity involved, and two that I think it makes what has been repeatedly acknowledged in the last oh god fifteen pages since the discussion lit up as a stressful vote where every single one of the frontrunners has had people expressing strongly how much they don't want it more stressful. Ratcheting down the tension in here isn't going to come from jumping on anyone who expresses their appreciation for a specific aspect of the thing they're supporting, it's going to come from a greater willingness to embrace the positive aspects of even the things you don't like in case they win.

Or possibly from angels descending on high to give everyone ice cream and soothing neck rubs, but I'm holding out for the positive attitudes, personally.
 
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The previous turn-vote plan for Elfcation already has us spending an AP on preparations in the form of scouting training, which is a lot more broadly applicable than either armor or airship considering it's a guerilla conflict and not some kind of war of conquest.

We may or may not need the remaining AP to attend to whatever is happening with the Hedgewise, but either way we do not need to tap out an entire turn or overwork for the sake of EVEN MORE PREP for an adventure Mathilde was invited on as a mere Magister ten years ago. This isn't us parachuting into Naggarond to assassinate Malekith, it's a trip we were invited on by an ambassador who presumably tries to avoid getting foreign representatives killed under his tenure. We're looking to learn from the Shadow Warriors and farm some goodwill, not drive the Druchii back into the sea.
 
I should point out that we can't use the Von Tarnus armour until we have spent one action practicing with it—this will either delay the Elfcation by a turn, or add an AP tax to the Elfcation, making it cost 4AP.

If the armour wins, I think it would be highly unlikely that we'll go on Elfcation next turn.
This argument feels disingenuous. Trying to sway a vote with how future vote results isn't a good argument because you can't guarantee how those future votes will go.

Focus on the here and now, don't argue hypothetical future voting plans.
 
The previous turn-vote plan for Elfcation already has us spending an AP on preparations in the form of scouting training, which is a lot more broadly applicable than either armor or airship considering it's a guerilla conflict and not some kind of war of conquest.

We may or may not need the remaining AP to attend to whatever is happening with the Hedgewise, but either way we do not need to tap out an entire turn or overwork for the sake of EVEN MORE PREP for an adventure Mathilde was invited on as a mere Magister ten years ago. This isn't us parachuting into Naggarond to assassinate Malekith, it's a trip we were invited on by an ambassador who presumably tries to avoid getting foreign representatives killed under his tenure. We're looking to learn from the Shadow Warriors and farm some goodwill, not drive the Druchii back into the sea.
Speaking honestly, I pushed for the scouting training because I wanted to see it done on its own merits. I thought it'd be good Eike training and be useful on many of Mathilde's adventures. (Mathilde didn't get to 2/3 on the skill out of nowhere. But it doesn't seem likely she'll get to 3/3 passively.) Doing it on the same turn as the Elfaction was a convenient excuse a happy convergence of events.

That aside, we're already super overprepared for Elfaction and I wouldn't argue that we need better Armor or really any prep whatsoever before going. I don't think anyone should vote for the Armor because they think we need it for the Elfcation, because we don't.
 
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One plus side of the ship is that if we do get involved in some high level politics, it would be a great way for whomever we work for to arrive at diplomatic events or just travel.

Would be a great piece of both security and means of flexing. Plus a touch of gun boat diplomacy as it shows the power of the Empire.
 
I am going to say this as politely as I can, given that I do not believe you to be arguing in bad faith, but this has been a recurring thing for the past few months -- every time someone brings up that they like the Armor of von Tarnus because they think being a wizard knight is cool, you have quote-replied them to say that Mathilde isn't a knight. Not that you don't think that being a knight is as cool as other things, not that you think it's a less interesting aspect of her character and you would prefer to emphasize one of Mathilde's many other hats, not even that there's some ambiguity involved: that as a question of fact, Mathilde isn't a knight. You have done this with me, you've done this with Derpmind and Deathbybunnies just now, you've done this with other people I am not going to tag because they're not currently involved in this conversation. On the face of it, this is a hard row to hoe, because Mathilde is literally a knight, a fact which you acknowledge and therefore say we should consider the thematic and creative elements in play, which is all very well and good except that at this point we're in the fundamentally semantic and subjective territory of "how close to the central examples of knighthood do you have to be to be a 'real' knight" and "what are the themes of knighthood" and "what are Mathilde's most important themes and attributes, anyway" and "wouldn't it kick ass if we pronounced knight more like how it is spelled, a /knɪxt/ sounds dope as fuck and also like onomatopoeia for sheathing a sword a la Wolverine's /snɪkt/."

That wandered away from me for a bit there. I blame the lack of sleep. My point is that, one, this is a weird thing to be idiosyncratically hung up on given the level of subjectivity involved, and two that I think it makes what has been repeatedly acknowledged in the last oh god fifteen pages since the discussion lit up as a stressful vote where every single one of the frontrunners has had people expressing strongly how much they don't want it more stressful. Ratcheting down the tension in here isn't going to come from jumping on anyone who expresses their appreciation for a specific aspect of the thing they're supporting, it's going to come from a greater willingness to embrace the positive aspects of even the things you don't like in case they win.

Or possibly from angels descending on high to give everyone ice cream and soothing neck rubs, but I'm holding out for the positive attitudes, personally.

When talking about what to invest the reward from Mathilde's magnum opus I feel like that level of analyses into the meaning of 'knight' is relevant. That said I do not begrudge anyone who does not do so, I just feel that these things need to be laid out rather than accepted at face value. If I were to psychoanalyze myself as to why I am invested enough to answer every time it probably has to do with getting into Warhammer questing (and Warhammer in general) through A Knight's Quest over on SB long before I even got an account.
 
This argument feels disingenuous. Trying to sway a vote with how future vote results isn't a good argument because you can't guarantee how those future votes will go.

Focus on the here and now, don't argue hypothetical future voting plans.

It's not disingenuous when people are voting for the armour on the basis that we'll be able to jump right into the Elfcation with it. It is fact that we need to train with the armour, and if we want it for the Elfcation we have to spend that action tax. Some people might want to spend it as a forth action on the same turn as the Elfcation and some might want to wait a turn in case something goes poorly.

All I'm trying to do is inform people, and if I decided to share my opinion alongside that, then I don't actually see how that's a problem. I think a lot of people in the thread would choose to delay a turn so that we can fully master wearing the armour, and it's not wrong for me to say that.
 
When talking about what to invest the reward from Mathilde's magnum opus I feel like that level of analyses into the meaning of 'knight' is relevant. That said I do not begrudge anyone who does not do so, I just feel that these things need to be laid out rather than accepted at face value. If I were to psychoanalyze myself as to why I am invested enough to answer every time it probably has to do with getting into Warhammer questing (and Warhammer in general) through A Knight's Quest over on SB long before I even got an account.
I'm gonna be blunt. I no longer believe you are arguing in good faith. You repeatedly badger anyone who mentions Mathilde as a knight, and have been doing so continually for this entire vote. When politely asked not to do that, you respond with the most neutral arguments you can come up with to justify continuing to badger people going forwards. This is not the behavior of someone trying to persuade people or honestly present an argument. This is the behavior of someone trying to silence a discussion by taking up all the air in the room.
 
I should point out that we can't use the Von Tarnus armour until we have spent one action practicing with it—this will either delay the Elfcation by a turn, or add an AP tax to the Elfcation, making it cost 4AP.

If the armour wins, I think it would be highly unlikely that we'll go on Elfcation next turn.
It's not disingenuous when people are voting for the armour on the basis that we'll be able to jump right into the Elfcation with it. It is fact that we need to train with the armour, and if we want it for the Elfcation we have to spend that action tax. Some people might want to spend it as a forth action on the same turn as the Elfcation and some might want to wait a turn in case something goes poorly.

All I'm trying to do is inform people, and if I decided to share my opinion alongside that, then I don't actually see how that's a problem. I think a lot of people in the thread would choose to delay a turn so that we can fully master wearing the armour, and it's not wrong for me to say that.
Do we...have a boney post on that? i feel like i've seen this said before but never with a citation... @Boney ?

Also, even if it is true, then i would like to note that if airship wins, even if we dont wait for it to be done for elfcation, then we'll need to fit in an AP for mathilde to get involved in the construction anyway. I mean, technically its not "required" but frankly i think the only outcome of this vote that would actually upset me, rather than 'just' being "not what i wanted the most" would be voting for a major collaboration between the colleges for a super project for mathilde to use personally and then not having mathilde get involved at all in helping make it the best she can and getting to flex that windherding skill of hers. If you want a super cool flying ship then commit to it, and at least personally that means taking the time to get mathilde adding her expertise to it
 
I am going on the elfcation in the coming turn, no matter what happens.

Ship or no ship, armor or no armor, giant pile of spooky shadow apparitions or not.

The vote was very narrow last time and I am confident that means it will succeed this time. If it was good enough for people to be making promises about doing it right after, it's still good enough now.

I refuse to let perfect be the enemy of the good, and I say that as one of the people who chose to defer last turn.
When talking about what to invest the reward from Mathilde's magnum opus I feel like that level of analyses into the meaning of 'knight' is relevant. That said I do not begrudge anyone who does not do so, I just feel that these things need to be laid out rather than accepted at face value. If I were to psychoanalyze myself as to why I am invested enough to answer every time it probably has to do with getting into Warhammer questing (and Warhammer in general) through A Knight's Quest over on SB long before I even got an account.
It's still a non-sequitor if the knighthood you are trying to analyze for is not the same as the knighthood that people are voting to pursue.

As far as I can tell nobody is holding out for some threshold where an external factor will swoop in because Mathilde is now a knight, so there might not even be an objective standard to do analysis for.

Rather Knght appears to just be a word they are using to describe the thing they like, which they see the armor of Von tarnus as doubling down on.

More generally, semantics are a terrible lens for debating vibes and aesthetics. If it was clearly and explicitly articulated, it wouldn't be vibes.

This will continue to be true and unproductive if you continue to press the point.
 
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Quick correction, but it wasn't the champion that nullified our enchantments, it was Khorne that did that, and I don't think theres a set of armour in the setting that can resist the direct attention of a chaos god.

The Von Tarnus armour would not have improved our chances in that fight.
I am confident that the Von Tarnus armor would indeed have improved our chances in that fight meaningfully.

Khorne took his first victory over Ranald to negate our sword. (This 100% makes sense, since it is potentially instakill or major disadvantage at the first blow if he does not.)

Second, he made magic hard to cast.

Third, he sought for further advantage against Ranald in later rolls for the fight. (Khorne: My guy has this, stopping Ranald from interfering is the best way forward.)

Each item deactivated or battlefield shift required both time and also a meaningful contested victory.

The Armor of Von Tarnus would likely have been second on the list of things to deactivate on Khorne's list. I bet it might have some resistance to divine tampering, though, so it might take a more significant victory to de-activate it.
 
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I'm gonna be blunt. I no longer believe you are arguing in good faith. You repeatedly badger anyone who mentions Mathilde as a knight, and have been doing so continually for this entire vote. When politely asked not to do that, you respond with the most neutral arguments you can come up with to justify continuing to badger people going forwards. This is not the behavior of someone trying to persuade people or honestly present an argument. This is the behavior of someone trying to silence a discussion by taking up all the air in the room.

I'm going to be honest with you, I resent the accusation. If you think I am doing something against forum rules I suggest you use the report button otherwise please engage with my arguments not my person and supposed intent
 
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