@Teen Spirit Does choosing any option other than Doing Nothing will means limited actions next turn? Or is this just mean the result will be along next turn result? Thank you.
The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest
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The other options means at the start of next turn Viserys will talk to Otto/Lyonel/Rhaenys and basically get a general rough idea of what they want in opening negotations if they even want a marriage at all at this point. And there will be options for further negotations in that turn. Naturally if you invite Qoren, a big focus of things will be Qoren's visit to King's Landing, but all that will for sure mean is you really should spend one of your conversations on Qoren.
[X] Have Your Father Begin Negotiations with Otto Hightower
I will say that while I disagree with Qoren as a marriage option, I do think hearing him out and establishing favorable relations early on (as two contemporary rulers) is probably a good idea.
I will say that while I disagree with Qoren as a marriage option, I do think hearing him out and establishing favorable relations early on (as two contemporary rulers) is probably a good idea.
[X] Invite Prince Qoren Martell to King's Landing
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It is noteworthy that "to fly," in Vale culture, is also a euphemism for "to get executed in the Eyrie by being shoved out of the building through a particular door that opens out onto a six hundred foot drop."
Sadly, decades later, Ronnel did that too, when his younger brother threw him out the door to his death during a failed coup/revolt against both Ronnel and against King Aenys in 37 AC.
Especially since the more warlike 'king' might well turn out to be US, a possibility Qoren may be hinting that he is aware of.
After all, Qoren presumably knows that there is a powerful anti-Dornish lobby in King's Landing.
So far, in-setting, there have been two martially inclined Targaryens on the Iron Throne- Aegon and Maegor. The first attacked Dorne most ferociosuly. The second had a short reign which he spent entirely distracted by a welter of rebellions and political troubles. Rhaenyra is on track to become the third, and the Dornishmen aren't stupid enough to think that she, ah, "doesn't have the balls" to have another try at Dorne with an army at her back. It is, in point of fact, the obvious thing for a martial Targaryen to try, especially if the Targaryen in question has an incentive to one-up Daemon's presumed-likely-to-succeed conquest of the Stepstones. Which Rhaenyra would.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
The leeches are doing their best, okay? ;_;
They graduated from some of the best annelid schools around, and it's not easy to get an education as an invertebrate in this economy.
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And it's not unreasonable that he's aware that Rhaenyra's Sworn Shield is a Tarly.
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- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
Technically, if it comes from the husband's family, it's a bride price, not a dowry
Even then I am pretty sure we want to do the negotiations with Otto ourselves. At least the informal negotiations, so that any talk between Viserys and him is strictly pro forma.
With all due respect, but what the hell are you even talking about? Nothing is settled yet. I would concur the talk with Viserys was a bit of a waste, but nothing more than that. We'll get to know Qoren now, but we still have all options open, and talking with them all (well maybe except Strong, because I really don't see the appeal there) is something we wanted to do anyway. We can still decline. If nothing comes out of it, well, Qoren was merely on a state visit.
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- Lake Wobegon
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Not even, it means we've locked him in as a business agent/contract attorney who will act with our best interests at heart, insofar as he knows them, and who will not double-deal, or force our hand out of impatience. Which is no small thing to be sure of, even if much of it could be assumed.
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- Who knows?
[X] Have Your Father Write to Rhaenys Targaryen
Look I really really wanna get a look into th lady who currently controls a majority of dragons in this country.
Look I really really wanna get a look into th lady who currently controls a majority of dragons in this country.
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- Mid-Atlantic
I agree that we should get the measure of the man and try to understand the likely sticking points that will arise- in particular what boundaries he feels the need to draw- as part of understanding his offer.
Well, the point of the Dornish marriage isn't to invite a foreign power into an internal struggle, because from our point of view the point of building up ties with Dorne and merging the royal lines is to bring them in without further bloodshed, not to strengthen us against rivals to the throne.
The trouble arises mainly if Daemon himself tries to step forward as a rival claimant who will take a hard line against Dorne, either in his own person or on behalf of his children with Laena (should they marry) and gets the backing of the Velaryon dragonriders. Then we'd really be in the soup.
Just to be clear, could you please provide your evidence for "mad imbecile" (you don't have to be an imbecile to think leeches work in a medieval setting, just wrong in a way a lot of other people are wrong).
Also, the list of members of the royal family whose deaths are the current Grand Maester's fault? I'll grant that he's killing Viserys by inches and should absolutely be removed soon from the king's case, to be clear! But I'm not at all sure he's to blame for Aemma (if Aemma had a major hemorrhage or something there's not much anyone could have done in this era without killing her more directly given the limited surgical techniques), and I'm quite sure he's not really to blame for Jaehaerys (who was just so goddamn old at the time of death that one might reasonably call it inevitable). Who else is there during his tenure?
I think you have a pattern of taking basically valid lines of reasoning ("we shouldn't invest 100% of our effort into one project to the exclusion of all others" or "Dad needs a new doctor") and ramping them up until you're saying things that, uh, may not be factually correct. ("spending two actions in one turn on a project is gross overkill" or "the current doctor is a mad imbecile who has a huge body count")
No, actually, I think that's fundamentally bullshit because I think you are completely misunderstanding the plain text of what has been written by the QM.
Marriage negotiations are negotiations. We are allowed to have negotiations with multiple people. We are allowed to invite Qoren to meet us in King's Landing and not commit to negotiations immediately. In Qoren's case it is especially essential to have at least a preliminary idea of what he would be offering in negotiations and what his red lines are because that has a massive effect on how desirable or undesirable he is as a marriage partner.
You seem to be under the impression that by talking to Viserys we have somehow put an end to the entire question and are now essentially "voting on who to marry" in all but name. It is not so and Teen Spirit has told us it is not so, in so many words.
Please stop calling other people "ridiculous" when you plainly do not understand what they are doing and why.
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I missed the do nothing option. Sorry.
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- Mid-Atlantic
Good. I, for one, think we damn well should have a talk with Qoren before deciding to not marry him (or, possibly, to marry him after all). If nothing else, it is extremely rare, perhaps vanishingly rare, that we would ever get a chance to meet him otherwise, even more so than with Rhaenys. And since we will probably have dealings of some kind with Qoren even if we do not marry and do not invade Dorne, I for one, would like to get the man's measure.
I don't blame the leeches, but no matter how hardworking they are, it's just a bad idea to be feeding them on a diet of bespoke high-grade ultra-rare royal blood. Viserys needs all that blood on the inside of his body.
I'm not blaming the leeches, it's just that they're sadly overpaid as a result of a badly misaligned economic sector created by perverse incentives outside their control.
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- Mid-Atlantic
Since Harwyn is the only one of the husband options who can probably beat Rhaenyra in an arm-wrestling contest, I will allow him, and him alone, to call his bride price a "bride price" and not a dowry.Technically, if it comes from the husband's family, it's a bride price, not a dowry
If nothing else, we probably want to convince Otto as part of our terms that Alicent shouldn't be forced to marry against her will.
The "talk with Qoren" option only exists because Viserys will be inviting him, so that's a big plus. Otherwise all we'd have is a letter-writing campaign, which is a lousy way to get to know someone.
I'm not saying Harwyn Strong is a good choice for husband, but we should at least find out why his dad isn't too hot on the idea of the marriage, plus also we have ulterior reasons to visit Harrenhal to talk to Alys Rivers again anyway.
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
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- He/Him/His
There's Baelon, though I don't remember if he was a miscarriage or a stillbirth whose death was inevitable, or if he could have been saved by more competent midwifery.
(If you can even call a maester-physician's intervention "midwifery." The gray rats seem to have cottoned onto the need to exclude actual midwives from the process in order to secure their own exclusive legitimacy as practitioners of the healing arts.)
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[X] Invite Prince Qoren Martell to King's Landing
I'm interested in what he has to say.
On the whole, I'm pro-Gwayne at this juncture, but I think we need to actually talk with Alicent about it before opening negotiations.
I'm interested in what he has to say.
On the whole, I'm pro-Gwayne at this juncture, but I think we need to actually talk with Alicent about it before opening negotiations.
[X] Have Your Father Write to Rhaenys Targaryen
[ ] Invite Prince Qoren Martell to King's Landing
Changing vote to prevent Qoren kicking Rhaenys or Alicent out of my next turn priority.
If Qoren visited Can we bring Qoren along in Next turn Trip to Dragonstone? Or will it be too busy and too crowded to have private discussion with both Alicent and him? Edit* Sorry for rush pinging you. I am just too excited. I'll just wait the next turn for the answer.
[ ] Invite Prince Qoren Martell to King's Landing
Changing vote to prevent Qoren kicking Rhaenys or Alicent out of my next turn priority.
Though giving Dragonstone tour to a visiting Prince of Dorne will be a great excuse to sail without dragon to Dragonstone that we promise Alicent. That is a risky action for me as I intent to wait for Alicent to be more ready. But may open rare opportunity to discuss a possibility of shared future with a possible candidate. @Teen Spirit
Great insight. The leeches need retraining and job security.
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- Up ya bum!
[X] Invite Prince Qoren Martell to King's Landing
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I will say next turn he can't come along to Dragonstone since he is actually also there to talk with Viserys about the Stepstones. But if Qoren's still around in Turn 15 you can absolutely bring him to Dragonstone.
Shapeless Phobos
Filthy Casual
[X] Invite Prince Qoren Martell to King's Landing
"Think of it, Prince of Dorne. Your spear might finally touch the Sun."
The last war is not in living memory either which will possibly keep those without history with warring against Dorne much more pliable. I'll not say it'll be easy but I definitely don't think it's the instant death knell of our cause in those areas you think it is.
"Think of it, Prince of Dorne. Your spear might finally touch the Sun."
We're going to have years to unruffle those feathers and forge our own allies. The Tarly's and Hightower's are some of our best bets since we already have in's with them. Even the canonical war that you're drawing from that a Dornish match automatically cuts us from Marcher support had more major Marcher lords seemingly on the Pro-Dornish side than not. Via further match making and politicking.
The last war is not in living memory either which will possibly keep those without history with warring against Dorne much more pliable. I'll not say it'll be easy but I definitely don't think it's the instant death knell of our cause in those areas you think it is.