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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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SaltyWaffles said:
From an outside perspective, Mathilde's academic career looks weird.
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I mean at least from what Eike picked up as an apprentice, Mathilde's academic career is the only reason people don't think the mathilde in front of us today is a completely different person from the one who went into the mountains :p
Boney said:
It seems that from the perspective of the Grey College, a promising young Journeywoman had disappeared into the mountains and emerged years later completely transformed, in something of an echo of the meteoric rise of the current Supreme Patriarch. Were it not for the steady stream of papers on every topic imaginable that had emerged from the strange and deadly Badlands, the question may have arose as to whether they were the same person at all.
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It probably helps that she had that initial flurry of papers after the expedition turned into settlement-pending-full-reconquest, since those started coming out i think less than a year after her magister exams?


Boney said:
Considering her wildly varying academic output, I could actually see somebody theorizing that she's going around stealing other peoples' work, erasing their memory of it, and publishing it under her own name.
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A bit less than fully related, but i do want to say that one of my favorite little things from (relatively) recent chapters was definitely the vampire hunter looking at Gretel's tiny publication history and going "ah, she must have been planning to be a doctor or something before magic puberty hit her." Just very amusing and fun to me :)
 
SaltyWaffles said:
All I'm seeing is a repeating of the same argument without evidence to back it up. Yes, the initial "just monitor the flow of magic through the Altdorf nexus" buy-in is easy. But scaling up isn't free; in fact, it gets exponentially more time-consuming and difficult to justify. Wizard-hours are not a plant that you grow, it's a limited resource that you can't easily make more of in any reasonable time frame.

We don't want tons of wizards getting involved in the existing leylines all over the place, because a lot of the wizards the Colleges have are either Journeymen--and are explicitly taught to not mess with Waystones except under specific circumstances--or Magisters who have much better things to do with their time than go around checking in on leylines and waystones that are going to be functioning just fine 99.99% of the time.

There is no "blazing a trail" here, because we can't pull in the manpower and resources of entire states into this, because the Colleges are the magical resources of the Empire and while it can spare wizard hours and resources for stuff like building permanent infrastructure, it cannot spare that for regular maintenance (which isn't even required) and monitoring of the entire damn network down to every leyline.

To paraphrase an early part of the quest: "I've got an army of thousands of peasants armed with crossbows and spears, and I've got ten cannon. You (the wizard) are the cannon. Find a way to make this work with thousands of peasants instead of the precious few cannon that I have, and I'll consider it."

The Colleges already work to generally check in on waystones they know the locations of and make sure they're still in working order. But this is not "every waystone gets checked and monitored every year", and the wizard-hours to measure energy flows for a substantial amount of time at each waystone don't exist. And as a reminder, the waystone network sends energy in packets of varying size and composition, making the process of gathering useful data even harder and more time-consuming. This is the kind of thing that can work if you have wizards with the right skills and tools placed at key waystone nexuses year-round to measure the flow through that, but getting more granular is just not practical at all.
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If only there was an untapped labor pool that could build tributaries and patch problems with something a simple as coming by every so often to sacrifice fish. Then provinces could maintain and possibly even expand into wild areas without very scarce wizard time. The Sigmarites wouldn't like it, but all you'd need is a province that was feeling abandoned by them anyway.
 
Bucolic said:
If only there was an untapped labor pool that could build tributaries and patch problems with something a simple as coming by every so often to sacrifice fish. Then provinces could maintain and possibly even expand into wild areas without very scarce wizard time. The Sigmarites wouldn't like it, but all you'd need is a province that was feeling abandoned by them anyway.
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I don't think there are as many hedgewise as there are Magisters, and definitely not as many as you need to travel the whole of the empire...
 
Tobtorp said:
I don't think there are as many hedgewise as there are Magisters, and definitely not as many as you need to travel the whole of the empire...
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Depends in how you define "Hedgewise"

I do think there are more "Hedgewise" than there are Magisters... if we include all the guys who are part of the group but cannot do magic, the perpetual equivalents and the Journeyman equivalents.

(Of course, if we count the College personel by the same token, they prolly have more people, but you specified Magisters vs Hedgewise, so I had to be a pedant).

I agree in spirit with what you said tho.
 
~400 Magisters versus half a dozen distinct traditions and groups covering half the Empire? I guess it depends on how many small villages and hamlets there are to support them. I can see it going either way, but whoever wins probably wins by a lot.
 
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When the proportion of potential magic weilders in the population was being explained, one of the numbers is that they think 1/3 goes to the priesthood, 1/3 to the colleges, and 1/3 for everything else. So unless they are very wrong on that they are definitely smaller in numbers.
 
dinomannitro6 said:
When the proportion of potential magic weilders in the population was being explained, one of the numbers is that they think 1/3 goes to the priesthood, 1/3 to the colleges, and 1/3 for everything else. So unless they are very wrong on that they are definitely smaller in numbers.
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But are they better in training, is the question. Mathematically every Magister is outnumbered over ten to one against those who haven't made it that far or never will. So the question becomes one of relative training difficulty, and whether Hedgecraft requires inherent magical power like collegiate magic does, alongside half a dozen other factors we can't possibly know.

Man, that vague thread idea about learning from the Ranaldian Hedgewise is so attractive to me...
 
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Humbaba said:
Nah. The real conspiricy theory is that Max is the secret genius and that Mathilde has some sort of blackmail over him and is stealing all the credit.

After all, basically our only solo paper was Mathilde's servicable at best graduation piece.

There is an entire Magda Wessen fanfiction sub-genre dedicated to this idea. Have of which has some thinly disguised reader avatar come in to "save" not!Max from the Evil! Magda Wessen.

The other half is very dedicated to exploring this blackmail dynamic with Magda in charge in .... lurid detail.

It's one for the Druchii and Skaven shelf.
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I don't remember where the Magda Wesson joke came from, but it's one of the most consistently funny in this thread.
 
AsuraAtlas said:
But are they better in training, is the question. Mathematically every Magister is outnumbered over ten to one against those who haven't made it that far or never will. So the question becomes one of relative training difficulty, and whether Hedgecraft requires inherent magical power like collegiate magic does, alongside half a dozen other factors we can't possibly know.

Man, that vague thread idea about learning from the Ranaldian Hedgewise is so attractive to me...
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Well I mean for one thing the Hedgefolk do not have the support of the state in getting training so their training regimen would have to be much easier to compensate for the fact that have to do it in a hut at the edge of the woods rather than in a bespoke elf created college at the heart of Imperial power and wealth. I would say that the hedgewise are very competent at what they have been doing, serving their communities in the traditional manner, but if you were to ask them to undertake a new magical task the colleges would have a significant edge due to being an academic institution with more backing and resources, not to mention more reach to find recruits.
 
Boney said:
To take an example I've brought up before, I'm absolutely convinced that there is or was something about a prophecy about the intersection of magic and gender. The Ice Witches don't let any men use magic because of a prophecy, the Dark Elves don't let any men use magic because of a prophecy, the Lady kidnaps all children capable of using magic in Bretonnia and only the women are ever seen again, the Bright Order has a prophecy of an exceptionally powerful female Battle Wizard, and the Amazons, back when they were canon, were big on prophecy and strictly women only.
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Adding to this pile are banshees, whether tomb banshees or syreens, which are universally female and all wield daggers and have no male equivalent.
 
I'm curious what effect we had on Maximilian's stats. Does him getting roped in to write on a wide variety of topics that he would normally not be all that interested in give him anything?
 
What was once a stately captain quarters, now cloaked in darkness and grime, yet somehow no less grand. Upon the large desk, resting on top a cloth the colour of dried blood, rests a leather bound book. Under an icon of an eye-patch wearing skull, crossed by blade and staff, is the title of the tome: MAGDA WESSEN & THE MUSEUM OF MYSTERY
DISPATCHED by her SUPERIORS within the ARCANE UNIVERSITY, KNIGHT-WIZARD MAGDA WESSEN sails across the WORLD'S END OCEAN on a MISSION of DEEPEST IMPORT! An ANCIENT RELIC of TRENENDOUS POWER has been located, and must BE RETURNED to the UNIVERSTIY'S SHADOW VAULTS! But the RELIC rests in the WRINKLED HANDS of the MAD CURATOR PANTSENHEN, an UNLIVING CLERIC of the CRYPT LORDS! MANY have TRIED to STEAL from HIS MUSEUM OF MYSTERTY, but NONE have ESCAPE to TELL THE TALE!

ARRIVING on the HIDDEN ISLE of BURNING LIZARD ATOLL, MAGDA is SWIFTLY CAPTURED by the CHIROPTERIAN CARTAKERS of the MUSEUM! PANTSENHEN FORESAW MAGDA's attempted HEIST - INDEED, he has LONG has his WIZENED EYE UPON on the KNIIGHT-WIZARD, seeing her as a PRIZED ADDITON to his COLLECTION! For the TRUE FATE of all ATTEMPTED THIEVES is to BECOME PART of the VERY EXHIBITS they tried to pilfer from - EITHER in LIFE OR DEATH!

MAGDA will have to use all her CHARM and WIT to UNITE a DISPARATE GROUP of ALLIES and FOES, and NAVIGATE the EVERCHANGING LABYRINTH of the MUSEUM! FOR it's CURATOR is NEVER SATISFIED, and MAY YET DECIDE that his NEWEST STAR ACQUISITION should be PUT AWAY - PERMANENTLY! Can MAGDA ESCAPE, or shall SHE be RELAGTED to the HISTORICAL DISPLAY?
Also posting on the Museum Thread. Anyone who hasn't joined, I recommend you do so
 
DragonParadox said:
Well I mean for one thing the Hedgefolk do not have the support of the state in getting training so their training regimen would have to be much easier to compensate for the fact that have to do it in a hut at the edge of the woods rather than in a bespoke elf created college at the heart of Imperial power and wealth. I would say that the hedgewise are very competent at what they have been doing, serving their communities in the traditional manner, but if you were to ask them to undertake a new magical task the colleges would have a significant edge due to being an academic institution with more backing and resources, not to mention more reach to find recruits.
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This would be an interesting question on the pros and cons of different methodologies. The top-down method of the Colleges who would have to deal with the legibility issues and the bottom-up method of the Hedgewise who would have to deal with resource scarcity. Though I think the reverse might also be true. Lacking resources may require the Hedgewise to have a harder initial difficulty curve compared to the Colleges who have resources and can more easily instruct and educated members. Perhaps, the difference between a soldier for a state army who through basic and a NSAG whose main training is the advice of veteran fighters and experiencing combat directly. Though...this comparison might be poor given the drastic difference in goals for the two groups. Man, it's so sad no one at GW wanted to write a noir-type story about a Hedgewise trying to help their community from supernatural threats while also avoiding the attention of the authorities.
 
So, we built a a small and medium seviroscope prototype. If we truly get our own skyship, it might be time to design a huge seviroscope capable of seeing magic flows on a regional scope from above.
 
AsuraAtlas said:
I mean you could argue that, but I think more than anything about her circumstances Mathilde's influx of paper writing came about because of Max and the Room of Serenity. Without those insane windfalls, I doubt Mathilde would have ever become a prolific academic paper writer, no matter how busy she technically was or how many weird things she poked at.
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So, a couple of things here:
First, Mathilde commissioned the Room of Serenity, and could afford to do so thanks to the money she got from the Karak Eight Peaks Expedition and her position as a dwarf-friend. She had a need, and bought the tools she needed to accommodate that need.
Second, as great as Max was, he was a bonus rather than a necessity. Once she had the Room of Serenity, she had no penalty to writing papers. Max just made the process of making those papers good enough faster by adding a second try to selected paper-writing attempts. Which is a big deal, yes, but not a requirement.

That Mathilde developed a penalty to writing papers under normal conditions was bad luck, but it's hardly unusual for wizards to compensate for their weaknesses with purchases of some kind. Mathilde spent CF on a healing artifact; Johann spent a lot of money to gild his body more and more to compensate for his inflexible magic and, together with extensive training in what he did have potential in, turned himself into a short-range powerhouse. The concept applies beyond wizards, too: Belegar was lacking in sufficient artillery to dominate the caldera in K8P, so he spent a lot of favors constructing a wizard-runesmith superweapon in Karag Nar to do the job, because that was available and a lot more cannon was not.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
The concept applies beyond wizards, too: Belegar was lacking in sufficient artillery to dominate the caldera in K8P, so he spent a lot of favors constructing a wizard-runesmith superweapon in Karag Nar to do the job, because that was available and a lot more cannon was not.
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Iirc he didn't really order a superweapon, that was more mathildes idea. But what he did do was order as much nulner artillery as he could when he found out that dwarven artillery wasn't forthcoming. At that point he stopped caring where the artillery came from and started caring how much he could get (also the reason for the branch gunnery college.)
 
Tobtorp said:
Iirc he didn't really order a superweapon, that was more mathildes idea.
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Mathilde's idea, Belegar's command and blank check—she presented it as one of the Turn 23 task options to Belegar, with the other option being the idea of an enchanted map room. It's fair to say he ordered it, since that's the entire premise behind the ck2 system—advisors offer options each turn, then the ruler picks one and orders them to carry it out. It just so happens that he ordered a bunch of manling cannons (Kazrik's task) and a magical superweapon (Mathilde's task) on the same turn.
 
Sparsebeard said:
So, we built a a small and medium seviroscope prototype. If we truly get our own skyship, it might be time to design a huge seviroscope capable of seeing magic flows on a regional scope from above.
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There's no need for that - we made seviroscopes to provide ways of sensing the Winds for dwarfs or non-wizard humans, neither of which can do so naturally. If there's a flow of magic big enough that it can be seen or heard by a seviroscope from above, it would definitely be seen by any wizards onboard.
 
K von Carstein said:
I don't remember where the Magda Wesson joke came from, but it's one of the most consistently funny in this thread.
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ReImagined said:
Here is the first post in the thread containing the word 'Magda.'
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That's the first appearance and origin of her name, however the genesis of the joke was in the preceding post here.
The kernel of the idea being that these were books I enjoyed imagining a devoted romance aficionado could be relishing in private, while (wilfully?) oblivious to the glaring parallels.
 
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