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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Tobtorp said:
That one is a touch... Delicate... As in when we brought up that idea with boney he cautioned us that doing something wrong while building a nexus might mean a province gets a makeover.
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We should still take a (careful) look, even if our conclusion ends up at "need serious help from the grey lords or the white tower for these".
 
One thing can be certain: unless Mathilde somehow managed to get Can Eshin to keep it hidden from rest of Skavendom, "revival of Clan Mors" is as much possible as Bretonnian Peasant killing Kholek Suneater via poison-filled sheep
 
Fouredged Sword said:
We built ONE trap, and it had a literal 1% chance of successfully trapping the apparition it was targeted to trap, and it required a specific apparition created by a specific type of misscast. That's hardly reproduceable.
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Oh, I'm well aware. But there was a 50% chance of capturing it alive, which is a major part of the challenge of bloodletting Apparitions in the first place. That we managed to capture it in a state of constant, endless bloodletting was the non-reproducible part.

reignonyrparade said:
I think there's also a good chance the end result of "wide expansion of AV sources" isn't "runesmiths stop valuing it as much" but "runesmiths become increasingly willing to use anvils of doom in less and less important battles."
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This. There's also the avenue opened by Runelords paying the Colleges to have eight Journeymen channel relatively equal amounts of their Winds into/around a Rune. Not cheap by any means, but karaks are wealthy and the ability to deploy controlled, miscast-less Battle Magic more frequently would be greatly appealing.

It wouldn't be the easy, convenient, perfectly-consistent solution that AV presents, but if it works then it's a hell of a lot better than "find a Storm of Magic, travel to it in time, and sit there while your Rune is charging in the middle of a Storm of Magic."
 
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When it comes to bleeding apparitions lets look at the other instance of capture we have on screen: the Red Rider.
  1. Johann punched it to incapacitate it
  2. Mathilde carted it off while Johann kept it down
  3. And then once it stopped trying to murder both of them she bound it
Logically you could replace step three with bleeding it and it should be fine. Obviously all wizards do not have a Johann so you would need a group of people with magical weapons (since mundane weapons do not work on them at all) but otherwise it's not that complex and it avoids the problem of using something like a binding circle which even if you could find a non-Chaotic source for raises the problem of how you are going to get in there to collect the AV.
 
DragonParadox said:
When it comes to bleeding apparitions lets look at the other instance of capture we have on screen: the Red Rider.
  1. Johann punched it to incapacitate it
  2. Mathilde carted it off while Johann kept it down
  3. And then once it stopped trying to murder both of them she bound it
Logically you could replace step three with bleeding it and it should be fine. Obviously all wizards do not have a Johann so you would need a group of people with magical weapons (since mundane weapons do not work on them at all) but otherwise it's not that complex and it avoids the problem of using something like a binding circle which even if you could find a non-Chaotic source for raises the problem of how you are going to get in there to collect the AV.
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Important to remember that "bleeding apparitions" is not actually how we get AV. The mirror box works because Wisdom's Asps have an ability unique even among apparitions to transit between the Aether and reality via mirrors, which allows aethyric substance to enter reality without breaking up into Winds.
Boney said:
Question: How could warp energy enter the world without the barrier being thin or pierced?
Fact: The Wisdom's Asp does not pierce the barrier between the physical world and the Aethyr. It moves between the two via the medium of mirrors.
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Trying to extract anything from a Red Rider or other apparition would have the same result as killing Daemons, where their flesh dissolves directly into Winds.
 
Natch said:
Important to remember that "bleeding apparitions" is not actually how we get AV. The mirror box works because Wisdom's Asps have an ability unique even among apparitions to transit between the Aether and reality via mirrors, which allows aethyric substance to enter reality without breaking up into Winds.

Trying to extract anything from a Red Rider or other apparition would have the same result as killing Daemons, where their flesh dissolves directly into Winds.
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My understanding is that is more how the wisdom asp is able to REPLENISH warp energy with piercing the barrier.
 
Natch said:
Important to remember that "bleeding apparitions" is not actually how we get AV. The mirror box works because Wisdom's Asps have an ability unique even among apparitions to transit between the Aether and reality via mirrors, which allows aethyric substance to enter reality without breaking up into Winds.
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Yeah, that is why it bleeds constantly and never running out, it got caught in the apparition version of a Saw trap while being immortal, but as Mathilde said in the last update AV is literally the blood of apparitions:

Boney said:
"I have been studying the blood of Apparitions, that I have dubbed 'Aethyric Vitae', which has the mildly useful property of decaying into equal amounts of the eight Winds," you begin explaining to your now entirely focused audience. "
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As long as you bleed them in a low magic environment it will come out AV and not winds
 
Boney said:
"There's a question to be asked about how sure we are that all of this is entirely non-Daemonic in nature," Reicthard says, "but may I take it from how I'm the first one to raise it that it's an answered one?"
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Poor Reicthard. Mathilde walks in and in front of the most powerful wizards in the Empire starts blabbing about apparition blood, and this guy is just like "wait, apparitions? Aren't those demons? Is she confessing to demonology? Is she confessing right here in front of us all? Why isn't anybody doing anything? Why are Algard and Mira just staring at her? She's confessing to demonology! Isn't she?".

It's not easy having to confess to being out of the loop in front of your peers.
 
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Boney said:
I have named'- dubbed? no, that implies a lack of authority, 'named this substance Aethyric Vitae...'"
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Boney said:
"I have been studying the blood of Apparitions, that I have dubbed 'Aethyric Vitae',
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Clearly all this talk of boons is pointless, at some point mathilde will realize she fucked up her speech and implied she lacked authority in front of all the headpat experts magister (p/m)atriarchs and exile herself in shame :V
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Poor Reicthard. Mathilde walks in and in front of the most powerful wizards in the Empire starts blabbing about apparition blood, and this guy is just like "wait, apparitions? Aren't those demons? Is she confessing to demonology? Is she confessing right here in front of us all? Why isn't anybody doing anything? Why are Algard and Mira just staring at her? She's confessing to demonology! Isn't she?".

It's not easy having to confess to being out of the loop in front of your peers.
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Well, you do need to check VERY carefully that demon blood isn't being substituted for apparition blood and your new orbs of sorcery are not cored with dhar deep down in a hard to detect way.

This is absolutely something you check. You do not just assume.

Because you just know that demons are going to try, if not now then once they realize that journeymen wizards can be tempted with a shortcut harvesting an "apparition" that doesn't mind bleeding.
 
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infinityDivided said:
IIRC Boney said that AV (or at least the book on it) is going to be classified for lower levels.
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Its going to get the liber mortis treatment. There will be lower levels of useable knowledge disseminated to wide variety of people, but only the higher echelons will have access to the real deal. With steps inbetween because its nowhere near as forbidden.
 
Fouredged Sword said:
Well, you do need to check VERY carefully that demon blood isn't being substituted for apparition blood and your new orbs of sorcery are not cored with dhar deep down in a hard to detect way.
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I don't think that would be possible with what I understand of Dhar.
If there was Dhar inside of an orb I'm fairly sure it would turn the solidified winds, that it would have to be in direct contact with into Dhar too.

You'd end up with an orb made of Warpstone
 
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NavySeel said:
I don't think that would be possible with what I understand of Dhar.
If there was Dhar inside of an orb I'm fairly sure it would turn the solidified winds that it would have to be in direct contact with into Dhar too.

You'd end up with an orb made of Warpstone
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I don't trust a demon of Tznech to not find a way to put a dhar time bomb in an orb of sorcery that turns it into an orb of dhar (and then a rapidly expanding warpstone explosion) at the perfectly inopportune moment.
 
Fouredged Sword said:
I don't trust a demon of Tznech to not find a way to put a dhar time bomb in an orb of sorcery that turns it into an orb of dhar (and then a rapidly expanding warpstone explosion) at the perfectly inopportune moment.
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A sufficient amount of diabolic ex machina can make anything a trap, but I do not think that the orbs are particularly vulnerable because the basic metaphysics of the setting works against it, it's not the actual daemon blood that grows the orb, it's the wind produced when the blood is detonated so you would have to enchant Chaos Daemon blood somehow so that after a phase change into wind it somehow maintainet 'chaotic intend' and also had some kind of timer and remote detonation function.
 
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DragonParadox said:
A sufficient amount of diabolic ex machine can make anything a trap, but I do not think that the orbs are particularly vulnerable because the basic metaphysics of the setting works against it, it's not the actual daemon blood that grows the orb, it's the wind produced when the blood is detonated so you would have to enchant Chaos Daemon blood somehow so that after a phase change into wind it somehow maintained 'chaotic intend' and also had some kind of timer and remote detonation function.
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Well, OK, but "You need to check everything to make sure it's not secretly demons" is not a bad take in the Warhammer setting.
 
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