I mean there's no reason not to help them to the best of our abilities against the Ad Mech, we do not want this leaking. Editing.
Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
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- Mature Sci-Fi
I mean there's no reason not to help them to the best of our abilities against the Ad Mech, we do not want this leaking. Editing.
10ebbor10
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I mean, your own plan outright refuses to help them to the best of our abilities.
The Ad Mech hold power because they hold the key's to the planet WMD's. They control Mutually Assured Destruction.
We could break that power, easily, by handing the key's to domestic WMD protection to the intel agencies, breaking the locks on the existing weapons, and then facing the Ad Mech with a new choice.
(Also, possibly providing Void shields to cities in case the Ad mech goes big MAD about the whole deal).
I do not think we can, the ad mech are many things, but lax with security is not one of them. Their nukes are going to be air-gap protected with no external links. This being the ad mech they are probably aimed by servitors running on a treadmill to make extra sure no scrap code can get in the decision loop
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Edited my plan, does it look correct? Sorry if its not, my brain feels fried at this point.
I already mentioned willing to sabotage their weapons of mass destruction if needed. Should give them some indication about how far we would be willing to go.
But yes, this got complicated quick.
10ebbor10
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I didn't mean hacking the Ad Mech's nukes.
I meant hacking Aevon's nukes, to eliminate the locks and keycodes the Mechanicus placed on them, and make it so that Aevon can operate their nuclear arsenal even without Mechanicus assistance.
Insult Everyone!
Master of Evil but bad at it.
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Let's not outright lie to them. Webs of lies have a tendency to convolute and collapse with terrible and unpredictable fallout.
[x] Plan: Tentative First Steps of Cooperation
Let's keep up the puzzlebox calling card. It's fun, and in-character.
Until you're ready to leave, you want to keep control over the actual manufacturing though, because it's the best stick to your carrot that you've got. Drones are better workers anyways. Afterwards, it's not like you can take it with you and friendly ports are always good, so they aren't too threatened about losing it after, either.
Military stuff will be kept minimal on either side.
-[] Answers: friendly tit for tat.
Answer the questions, but do it a bit tit-for-tat until you've got some trust going. You're going out on a limb here and leaving yourself vulnerable.
Ask them for how they imagine this going, about their ideal scenario and plans for you. You gave them the powercells already, now it's time for them to show some good will.
--[] What technology are you willing to share?
What it will take to get into space and everything I'll inevitably leave behind getting back into orbit. Given the Mechanicus is a notch or two below me on the tech ladder, that's a damn good offer on your hands. More can come dependent on goodwill and trust. Is there anything specific you want?
= Always lowball what you're paying, negotiations will drive up the price.
--[] Where are you based?
Close enough to work with. You don't have that much trust.
--[] How large is your ship?
By spaceship standards? Tiny.
--[] What kind of assistance do you require?
Bureaucratic and political cover, resources and potentially additional hands. Mostly I just see your people covering me while I build an orbital shipyard for your people to inherit. Or building stuff according to plans I lay out. I imagine that'll be mostly a matter of what appearances we can afford to give.
--[] What are your plans for the mechanicus?
Subvert, weaken or destroy.
We're ideological opposites and our interests mutually exclusive in too many ways.
Give them a rough overview of Mechanicus internal workings and politics while at it. Demonstrate technological superiority.
--[] How long is your timeline?
Spaceship construction is the work of decades, even in normal circumstances with a functional shipyard, but these are far from normal or ideal circumstances. Decades, if not a century or two of work is not unrealistic. Reaching into the third would not be surprising if things get tough.
--[] What are your intentions for Denva Secundus?
Ideally I'd have a friendly port to return to on occasion. Perhaps even a home? It's a stranger's galaxy out there and it's always good to see a familiar face and I like you a lot better than the imperium.
[x] Plan: Tentative First Steps of Cooperation
Let's keep up the puzzlebox calling card. It's fun, and in-character.
Until you're ready to leave, you want to keep control over the actual manufacturing though, because it's the best stick to your carrot that you've got. Drones are better workers anyways. Afterwards, it's not like you can take it with you and friendly ports are always good, so they aren't too threatened about losing it after, either.
Military stuff will be kept minimal on either side.
-[] Answers: friendly tit for tat.
Answer the questions, but do it a bit tit-for-tat until you've got some trust going. You're going out on a limb here and leaving yourself vulnerable.
Ask them for how they imagine this going, about their ideal scenario and plans for you. You gave them the powercells already, now it's time for them to show some good will.
--[] What technology are you willing to share?
What it will take to get into space and everything I'll inevitably leave behind getting back into orbit. Given the Mechanicus is a notch or two below me on the tech ladder, that's a damn good offer on your hands. More can come dependent on goodwill and trust. Is there anything specific you want?
= Always lowball what you're paying, negotiations will drive up the price.
--[] Where are you based?
Close enough to work with. You don't have that much trust.
--[] How large is your ship?
By spaceship standards? Tiny.
--[] What kind of assistance do you require?
Bureaucratic and political cover, resources and potentially additional hands. Mostly I just see your people covering me while I build an orbital shipyard for your people to inherit. Or building stuff according to plans I lay out. I imagine that'll be mostly a matter of what appearances we can afford to give.
--[] What are your plans for the mechanicus?
Subvert, weaken or destroy.
We're ideological opposites and our interests mutually exclusive in too many ways.
Give them a rough overview of Mechanicus internal workings and politics while at it. Demonstrate technological superiority.
--[] How long is your timeline?
Spaceship construction is the work of decades, even in normal circumstances with a functional shipyard, but these are far from normal or ideal circumstances. Decades, if not a century or two of work is not unrealistic. Reaching into the third would not be surprising if things get tough.
--[] What are your intentions for Denva Secundus?
Ideally I'd have a friendly port to return to on occasion. Perhaps even a home? It's a stranger's galaxy out there and it's always good to see a familiar face and I like you a lot better than the imperium.
Let that be part of a negotiation.
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- He/Him
I think we could benefit from getting this established.
Why stop at just Lasguns? We can throw in Tanks, Carapace Armor and Hellguns.
Though we could export them a Manufactorum.
Speaking of which, I think maybe we could go for a Camouflaged Factory, we are getting on better terms and if we prove valuable and cooperative to Aevon they could also try help covering for us.
Well, I do think Vita will be planning on sharing all her tech when she feels like she's ready. She personally doesn't stand to lose anything by helping uplift them.
Insult Everyone!
Master of Evil but bad at it.
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That reminds me, let's make sure to impress upon them that they just won the lottery by being most convenient, or just from the RNG. That we don't particularly care which of the five ends up on top, and if they're too problematic, we aren't afraid to visit the neighbors.
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[x] Plan: Tentative First Steps of Cooperation
Oh yeah. Computer chips of various kinds are in permanently short supplies, various complex medicines are ruinously expensive to produce and currently a source of social unrest, etc. These are things you could pull from the datanet if you decide to produce maximum-value minimum-BP goods.
A bit of both, though I'm more referring to it as part of a negotiation action. It's obvious that one of the things they want/need in addition to technological uplift is help hiding that uplift from the mechanicus, at least until it's widespread enough and they've taken steps to prevent it mitigate the blowback when the Mechanicus figures it out.
They also are the only ones who can repair/provide new Imperial-quality military equipment.
More-or-less true. You could still fuck with them a bit, doing things like replacing their maps with new ones so the nukes miss (though there's a chance they notice and pull up old maps from personal storage or something), or just attacking everything in the loop to try to make sure the silos can't open or whatnot. But you cannot just turn off their nukes unless you get agents/more penetration into their system in one of a few different ways.
I can't quite tell what you changes - but it looks like you don't directly offer help against the mechanicus? This would be under the ACI response section. Like, what will you do if they ask you for communicators that the mechanicus can't detect/intercept, like the one you've given them but capable of talking to each other? I don't know if your plan would be ok with that.
I guess in the questions section you say you might be able to cripple their weapons of mass destruction, but you don't offer anything other than that.
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This switch from we to i is very flagrent. "What *we* were doing", is probably all that needs to change, but i would change it to "we would rather not start a shooting war" as well just to keep things consistent.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
I was talking more about the point costs being correct, because I didn't change much else for the plan. But if I had to do more changes... I feel a bit bad usually about editing mid-vote anything that isn't due to just something being wrong in the vote like with the points costs for humanized bots. But with how rapidly things are going, I might have to do that here. Or a separate version two of my plan. Give me a couple of moments to go over things.
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Why are we answering this question again? I don't really see how that information is relevant to cooperating at this juncture, which by the metric of "don't provide unnecessary information" would mean it should be omitted, if I've not missed the reasoning somewhere.
I've probably missed the reasoning somewhere, to be fair.
As for what giving it could cost us: off the top of my head, ship size could be used to narrow down where we are. Remember, we went to a nearby city for the in-person meeting, and said city and its surroundings is going to be one of the focuses of the search for us just out of common sense. If we give them information that lets them, say, cross-reference geological surveys to rule out places our ship can't be in the local area, that's one less barrier to someone finding the forest and river we're in.
Thank goodness we've camouflaged our surface infrastructure there, I'd be shocked if this outed us on its own, but that's no reason to make it easier for later complications to unveil our base.
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Functionally that does nothing while the Ad Mech has theirs except make them more likely to use them.
Oh, that's what you were referring to! Looks good to me.
Yeah, I'd close voting again to allow for more discussion, but it's likely I get the chance to do some writing tonight and I want to get moving!
Insult Everyone!
Master of Evil but bad at it.
- Location
- Right behind you~
Yeah. Not your fault discussion is only happening too late.
Well yes and no, in reality we are going to give them everything we can short of AI, but we cannot admit we have/are AI so we have to pretend there is a level of non-Abominable tech we are not sharing.
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I literally wrote that little side story for fun. I didn't think you would consider it canon. That gave the fuzzy feelings.
Wait nope that's lunch. Still appreciate though!
Wait nope that's lunch. Still appreciate though!
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Okay, editing my plan it is. Aaand changes done to the plan in my original plan. Does it still look legit? Because I wasn't kidding about my brain frying itself at this point, going to take a break to do some other stuff.
Parts I changed noted below in this post.
Good point, removed that from my plan.
Also, added the following line regarding AdMech:
"Other than that, I can offer to you more subtle options, like surveilance through access to their systems. Maybe even sabotage things other than weapons of mass destruction."
[X] Plan: The tentative first steps of cooperation
This plan is good as it will address my concerns about revealing our location to soon, and it would be the rest bed for the relationship between our AI and the government she is contacting with.
This plan is good as it will address my concerns about revealing our location to soon, and it would be the rest bed for the relationship between our AI and the government she is contacting with.