Thanks for the update Neablis. Nice to see things went relatively well overall.
In the grim darkness of 40th millennium, there is still social anxiety.
In the grim darkness of 40th millennium, there is still social anxiety.
Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Social activity, yay! More seriously, that went better than I expected. Diplomacy suite with a (Wo)man of Stone is turning out to be pretty good. Not to mention having good hacking capabilities.
I will try to make my own plan before the voting opens, but will have to see if I manage it.
I will try to make my own plan before the voting opens, but will have to see if I manage it.
Some interesting stuff here to be sure. For instance:
...Not will you go to sector command? Will you speak to the guard? Will you rat us out to the inquisition? These people do not consider themselves Imperial in any sense for all they still worship the Emperor. Or at least our contact doesn't. A counterintelligence expert would be more cynical than most about the government that abandoned them and also she would have more information on just how bad the bad old days were.
I agree that we should recruit Anexa, but we should also keep looking for people who can solve the puzzles, we need a bridge crew and the mechcanicum is one of the best places to get it.
...Not will you go to sector command? Will you speak to the guard? Will you rat us out to the inquisition? These people do not consider themselves Imperial in any sense for all they still worship the Emperor. Or at least our contact doesn't. A counterintelligence expert would be more cynical than most about the government that abandoned them and also she would have more information on just how bad the bad old days were.
I agree that we should recruit Anexa, but we should also keep looking for people who can solve the puzzles, we need a bridge crew and the mechcanicum is one of the best places to get it.
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[] Plan: Answer:No Wordcelling on Main
-[] What technology are you willing to share ?
--[]Depends,what do you want ?
-[] Where are you based?
--[]In a hole
-[] What kind of assistance do you require?
--[]Raw material,fuel and maybe some crew
-[] How large is your ship?
--[]As big as I can renovate it to be,with your help hopefully winkwink
-[] What are your plans for the mechanicus?
--[]Entirely dependent on if they play ball or not
-[] How long is your timeline?
--I'm thinking about a decade of prep then who knows ?
-[] What are your intentions for Denva Secundus?
--[]I'll leave,maybe send you a post card every few years
-[] What technology are you willing to share ?
--[]Depends,what do you want ?
-[] Where are you based?
--[]In a hole
-[] What kind of assistance do you require?
--[]Raw material,fuel and maybe some crew
-[] How large is your ship?
--[]As big as I can renovate it to be,with your help hopefully winkwink
-[] What are your plans for the mechanicus?
--[]Entirely dependent on if they play ball or not
-[] How long is your timeline?
--I'm thinking about a decade of prep then who knows ?
-[] What are your intentions for Denva Secundus?
--[]I'll leave,maybe send you a post card every few years
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My thoughts on the questions:
-[] Answers
--[] What technology are you willing to share?
--[] Well I can't call up a Standard Template Constructor, that is how we handled colonies back in the day. It is also a very specialized piece of tech that one doesn't hand out to surveyors, but sometimes we would find new colonies who did not take as thorough a look at their planet as they thought, or maybe they started out with ideological reasons for not wanting high technology only to discover it was not for them. I can give you a colonization package, including everything you need to get back into space and build warp capable craft. I may be able to add Navigation to that depending on if I can figure out how to duplicate my ship's systems. Weapons-wise I can definitely give you enough to equip your PDF for defense and arm your ships for the same reason. I do not have the schematics for weapons of mass destruction and to be honest I would not be comfortable handing those out if I did. Yes I am aware that by giving you space lift I'm providing the means for orbital bombardment anyway, but at least that doesn't cause fallout.
--[] Where are you based?
---[ ] On planet. I will reveal more than that when and as it is necessary and we build trust
--[] What kind of assistance do you require?
---[ ] Political cover, the chance to buy land legally, more information on the current state of the galaxy that isn't on the datanet. Eventually a chance to hire crew that fits some pretty stringent testing parameters. Going out into the black unknown to poke it isn't for everyone.
--[] How large is your ship?
---[ ] It was 2,200 by 400 meters, until the entire engine block got sheared off. Lost a bit over a fifth of the length from that.
--[] What are your plans for the mechanicus?
---[ ] I have none, I have opinions about what they're doing and what they are, most of them negative, but really it is not my place to decide how Denvans handle their politics. That said I do think that no one group should have a monopoly on technology, definitely not one with the threat of weapons of mass destruction to enforce their opinions. That is why I approached you in the first place.
--[] How long is your timeline?
---[ ] Hypothetically? If I were to spend every waking hour, cutting every corner in the process? With total freedom to move as I pleased and no consequences to doing so? We're probably looking at 40 Terran Standard Years to get an orbital presence secure enough to start the major work. Realistically, that's not an option because it would be flagrantly clear what I was doing and I'd really rather not potentially start a shooting war against a cult with nukes and a will to use them. Probably looking at something closer to a century, and that assumes nothing unforeseen rolls in to make a mess of all of this.
--[] What are your intentions for Denva Secundus?
---[ ] Give you a leg up in exchange to helping me get back to the stars and part on amiable terms so that I can mark this system as a port of call. I think that will be very valuable. The galaxy I now find myself in seems darker than the one I went into stasis in.
Reasoning
-[] Answers
--[] What technology are you willing to share?
--[] Well I can't call up a Standard Template Constructor, that is how we handled colonies back in the day. It is also a very specialized piece of tech that one doesn't hand out to surveyors, but sometimes we would find new colonies who did not take as thorough a look at their planet as they thought, or maybe they started out with ideological reasons for not wanting high technology only to discover it was not for them. I can give you a colonization package, including everything you need to get back into space and build warp capable craft. I may be able to add Navigation to that depending on if I can figure out how to duplicate my ship's systems. Weapons-wise I can definitely give you enough to equip your PDF for defense and arm your ships for the same reason. I do not have the schematics for weapons of mass destruction and to be honest I would not be comfortable handing those out if I did. Yes I am aware that by giving you space lift I'm providing the means for orbital bombardment anyway, but at least that doesn't cause fallout.
--[] Where are you based?
---[ ] On planet. I will reveal more than that when and as it is necessary and we build trust
--[] What kind of assistance do you require?
---[ ] Political cover, the chance to buy land legally, more information on the current state of the galaxy that isn't on the datanet. Eventually a chance to hire crew that fits some pretty stringent testing parameters. Going out into the black unknown to poke it isn't for everyone.
--[] How large is your ship?
---[ ] It was 2,200 by 400 meters, until the entire engine block got sheared off. Lost a bit over a fifth of the length from that.
--[] What are your plans for the mechanicus?
---[ ] I have none, I have opinions about what they're doing and what they are, most of them negative, but really it is not my place to decide how Denvans handle their politics. That said I do think that no one group should have a monopoly on technology, definitely not one with the threat of weapons of mass destruction to enforce their opinions. That is why I approached you in the first place.
--[] How long is your timeline?
---[ ] Hypothetically? If I were to spend every waking hour, cutting every corner in the process? With total freedom to move as I pleased and no consequences to doing so? We're probably looking at 40 Terran Standard Years to get an orbital presence secure enough to start the major work. Realistically, that's not an option because it would be flagrantly clear what I was doing and I'd really rather not potentially start a shooting war against a cult with nukes and a will to use them. Probably looking at something closer to a century, and that assumes nothing unforeseen rolls in to make a mess of all of this.
--[] What are your intentions for Denva Secundus?
---[ ] Give you a leg up in exchange to helping me get back to the stars and part on amiable terms so that I can mark this system as a port of call. I think that will be very valuable. The galaxy I now find myself in seems darker than the one I went into stasis in.
Reasoning
- This confirms our origin and explains why we have all this stuff in our databanks. Of course the real reason is 'we are an AI, our databanks are vast', but we need to build up a plausible story for who Vita the human is, preferably one that will be sympathetic to the locals. Being an Old Time-y Explorator who helped worlds like theirs out does that. The note that 'the Ancients' also fucked up colonization humanizes her and adds verisimilitatude to our story. The reason I said that about Navigation is we want a reason that makes sense to talk to the local psykers and 'I'm just interested in Warp stuff' is liable to ring all the alarm bells in this formerly imperial worlds, especially if they know anything about Chaos. Also it is factually true, we have not worked out how to make a Void Abacus yet Weapons wise give them what we have schematics for and leave it at that, they do not need more
- Do not reveal where we are yet, they are going to be tempted to just loot us at least until the tech starts rolling in and then weare the goose that lays the golden egg
- This is pretty simple, cover, info and crew, all things we need in the short, mid and long term
- Ship size is just coppied over from @Alectai
- Make it very clear that while we do not have an interest in their politics we do not like the ad mech for ideological reasons, it makes them feel safer by providing yet another reason why Vita is on their side. Also again the advantage of being true
- Coppied from @Alectai again since the timeline seems good
- This is factually true, closing out with another discreet play for sympathy. Also it gives them all the more reason to help us since we might come back int he future with more stuff for them
I think it might be worth building a Mechanicusc' avatar this turn or next. We can only do the whole mysterious mentor bit for so long before we will need to meet in person
I think that's five actions. I think we can skip the manufactury though. We got enough on that front IMO. Won't hurt, but not a priority.
Let's see about making a plan to force the old fart to promote Aneka. Make it stealthy though, something they won't suspect foul play too much. All while befriending her and perhaps dropping some hints about potential future space-adventures. Make her puzzle for it a bit though, seems like a fun signature and Vita is prankster enough for that.
-[] Answers
--[] What technology are you willing to share?
What it will take to get into space and everything I'll inevitably leave behind getting back into orbit. Given the Mechanicus is a notch or two below me on the tech ladder, that's a damn good offer on your hands.
= Always lowball what you're paying, negotiations will drive up the price.
--[] Where are you based?
Close enough to work with. You don't have that much trust.
--[] How large is your ship?
By spaceship standards? Tiny.
--[] What kind of assistance do you require?
Bureaucratic and political cover, resources and potentially additional hands. Mostly I just see your people covering me while I build an orbital shipyard for your people to inherit. Or building stuff according to plans I lay out. I imagine that'll be mostly a matter of what appearances we can afford to give.
--[] What are your plans for the mechanicus?
Subvert, weaken or destroy.
We're ideological opposites and our goals mutually exclusive in too many ways.
--[] How long is your timeline?
Hypothetically? If I were to spend every waking hour, cutting every corner in the process? With total freedom to move as I pleased and no consequences to doing so? We're probably looking at 40 Terran Standard Years to get an orbital presence secure enough to start the major work. Realistically, that's not an option because it would be flagrantly clear what I was doing and I'd really rather not potentially start a shooting war against a cult with nukes and a will to use them. Probably looking at something closer to a century, and that assumes nothing unforeseen rolls in to make a mess of all of this.
--[] What are your intentions for Denva Secundus?
Ideally I'd have a friendly port to return to on occasion. Perhaps even a home? It's a stranger's galaxy out there and it's always good to see a familiar face.
We already made some pretty strong implications to that. Purposefully. It's too late to hide that much.
How about offering shipments of rejuvenat as tradegoods?
+Very valuable, greed might make them pliable
+Underscores our very old claim without pointing towards us being AI, by pretending that we are sharing some rejuvenat rations of fallen comrades that didn't survived the crash.
-Very valuable, greed might make them do something rash/stupid
Could you include a free action to crossreference mechanicus DB for planets in local system with shipbuilding resources and minimum viable ship to get there?
Just in case shit hits the fan and we need to leave asap "you fail diplomacy, flee, and build a ship on a lifeless rock in a timeskip update, try again in next system" would be much better than "you fail diplomacy and the planet Triest to destroy you". Like we went to the meeting in good faith but still rigged ourselves up to explode in case they didn't come in good faith.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
I think people are saying a bunch if things without intending, just by what they fail to mention.
For example, mentioning that your ship is kilometers long, that you intend to start rebuilding in decades, and yet not asking for a single human as workforce all but admits we are an AI, or at the very least use one.
After all, what else could provide such massive manufacturing power? When the Mechanicus performs a similar feat, they need tens of thousands, if not hundred of thousands of menials and servitors.
Edit : Anyway, @Neablis , to get the scale right. What number of people would a manufactory employ, if human operated, and how does it compare to the planets existing capabilities?
For example, mentioning that your ship is kilometers long, that you intend to start rebuilding in decades, and yet not asking for a single human as workforce all but admits we are an AI, or at the very least use one.
After all, what else could provide such massive manufacturing power? When the Mechanicus performs a similar feat, they need tens of thousands, if not hundred of thousands of menials and servitors.
Edit : Anyway, @Neablis , to get the scale right. What number of people would a manufactory employ, if human operated, and how does it compare to the planets existing capabilities?
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Or you know, that you have crew which you are hiding. There is a reason our robots look like people and can talk.
- Location
- okc
I know our ships is in terrible shape. But do we have any hangar bays that we could build some shuttles? Or maybe a hidden ground to shuttle port somewhere in the mountains. I think we might get away with parking a shipyard somewhere in the systems asteroid field if we can only just get something up there.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
We've all but admitted we are alone in our prior conversation, constantly speaking of "I" and mine. Similarly, a lack of requesting any kind of supplies for the crew once again hints at it's non-existence.
On top of that, there's generally an order of magnitude difference between the number of crew needed to man a ship, and the number needed to build it. We're talking about constructing an entire supply chain for ship manufacturing, from ore all the way to orbital frigate. You don't put enough people for that on board a single ship. Maybe on a colonization or construction vessel, but we already admit to being an explorer.
A shuttle bay is in our construction list, so just build that.
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Or we are just the captain and we speak with I since we see ship and crew as an extension of ourselves, a concept which should be very familiar to former imperials. 'AI' is not the conclusion anyone sane is going to jump to when encountering a friendly entity because as far as they are concerned AI is Satan. We have not attempted to reprocess their tasty brain meats into unholy robots ergo we are not AI until proven differently. As for supplies that is pretty easily explained by restarting the hydroponics.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
That's servitorization.
Arguably, doing so would make us less of an unknown threat, because then they'd know where the productivity came from.
Edit : Also, a friendly face being a hidden, decieving threat is a core of like half the Imperial propaganda, and while they seem to have shed some of that, they do appear to retain the elements on AI.
Edit 2: Also, supplies is far more than just food. It's consumer goods, entertainment, and so on and so on. Do we expect them to believe that we have an entire crew full of explorers, tens of thousands of interprid spirits daring the unknown, and not a single one of those wants to actually explore the planet they landed on? See the sights? Do anything more than work hours upon hours of boring drudgery? We can upgrade our robots to talk, but they will not hold up for that.
Edit 3 : Got to remember that we're talking to an intelligence agency that is well, actually competent.
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AI isn't a common threat, they think of AI in terms of legends from the Cynernetic Revolt which is mythology, it is Satan as in the literal Fallen Angel to them not just someone in league with the devil.
Again they are going to default to common sense answers like the crew being in hiding, especially since we can provide a humanoid crew for them to observe. We did not take that research last turn for nothing.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
We didn't take the research at all. Minor detail really, but we do not have humanoid robots.
And again, your common sense answer does not work, it does not add up. The scale of the industry needed to manufacture a ship in the timeframe provided is far larger than any crew that could have reasonably been on that vessel, or any crew we can provide.
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Only if you are using Imperial technology. As far as they know DAOT tech is leagues above them. If we tell them we can build a ship in a century with a thousand people that is a heck of a lot more believable than say the Panacea STC and that thing is real.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
An argument that might work, were it not for the fact that the plans commit to sharing that technology and infrastructure with them, meaning that they will realize that the technology can not, in fact, do that.
Or we can use technology that actually can.
No, we are planning to share some technology, I never said we are giving them the best stuff. These people have had to live with the Ad Mech, the concept should be familiar.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Yours doesn't, but Alectai's plan does.
(Your plan meanwhile commits to handing out navigation, which will open a whole other can of worms. The revolution was only 140 years ago, I doubt the concept and necessity of Navigators has passed from institutional memory. The Admech will certainly have a conniption if they hear about the possibility of void abascusses, but eh, that's not an existential threat to us).
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We pretty much have to explain we have technological navigation since we cannot produce a convincing navigator to explain how we plan to leave the system.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Now that would be pretty simple with a "they're just frozen" excuse. It's only 1 person, and Navigators are by nature isolated of the common people.
Anyway, more on topic, how do we plan to return to space.
I see essentially two pathways.
1) We build up our ground infrastructure capacity recursively, then build launch infra, then build a shipyard and ship.
2) We build just enough ground infra to construct a shuttle port (tbh, I can not imagine why we'd ever want to build a rocket launch facility, we loose more BP using it than it would cost to build the better shuttle port) then brute force orbital manufactories, getting us slower, but launch independent infra.
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- Location
- okc
This is W40k. I don't think there is too much a thing as paranoia when it comes to how fast things can get bad for us. Plus this is a quest so we are at the whims of the dice. Also the eldar are confirmed to be on planet.
I think we should carve out a bunker in the mountains. Manufactorum, shuttle-port. Perfect the humanoid robots, dress our robots in armor. Pretend we are the paranoid survivors from the Govenors faction. A fallback bunker in case of the worst case scenario. We are willing to trade imperial tech at a neutral drop point. Create a new avatar to roleplay as the new Overseer of the bunker who is tentatively reaching out to trade for needed supplies. That would get people looking into all the wrong places. Giving us room to build up and get off planet.
Edit: I don't mean perfect robots, just humanoid robots that we can slap armor on and call it a day.
I think we should carve out a bunker in the mountains. Manufactorum, shuttle-port. Perfect the humanoid robots, dress our robots in armor. Pretend we are the paranoid survivors from the Govenors faction. A fallback bunker in case of the worst case scenario. We are willing to trade imperial tech at a neutral drop point. Create a new avatar to roleplay as the new Overseer of the bunker who is tentatively reaching out to trade for needed supplies. That would get people looking into all the wrong places. Giving us room to build up and get off planet.
Edit: I don't mean perfect robots, just humanoid robots that we can slap armor on and call it a day.
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