- Location
- Bretonnia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Not to come off as nit-picky, but this should be confident instead of confidant.
Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
Not to come off as nit-picky, but this should be confident instead of confidant.
So... on the matter of what we might be doing here:
Research: 1 Action
[] Psychic shielding 150 -> 300/300
I definitely think we should finish this, if only so we have a gauge on how the shielding is holding up, right now we do not know what's going on warp-side or how much we should be focusing on that. If things are rolling bad in the background we would know to knuckle down on it
-[] The Basics of Psytech 50 -> 50/200
There is an argument to be made for rounding off Combat Bot Humanization, but lets be honest here, are we really going to need that bit is extra strength anytime soon? Psytech on the other hand we might need urgently again depending on what that shield gouge shows
Diplomacy: 1 Action +1 Free
[] [Free action] Yes (At our new 'public' factory) (requires 25 BP every turn to 'rent' a large and currently unused area for your use, as well as getting you government-provided guards to keep the curious out and distract the Mechanicus.)
Take the deal obviously, it is pretty good and there is no need to nickle and dime these people
[] Bring Anexa to the ship and reveal your true nature
This somewhat if a risk, but we are a diplo AI and she is almost a perfect candidate for subversion. The more we lie to her the harder it will be to unspool all the lies. Plus like I said above Vita could use a friend as well as another pair of hands, maybe even a researcher
Construction: 2 Actions = 400 BP
-[] Trade goods 80 BP
The reasoning here is we may have turns where we do not want to spent an action to construct so it would be helpful to have a stock of goods to pay from. Also this is valuable stuff. If we want to say talk to the other governments or bribe someone while doing spy stuff it would help to have the means
-[] Shuttle Port 100 BP
-[] Shuttle 20 BP
It is unlikely we are going to need more than one shuttle in the foreseeable future, but we are going to need that if we want to pick up Anexa
-[] Manufactory x2 200 BP
And the rest goes into production capacity. There isn't much point in building a tunnel given the cost. 50 BP/mile means that with a full construction action spent on it we would get 4 miles. Four miles is nothing to a determined search. Given the treasure trove we hold we can expect that if a search is made (if relations break down with Avon, the ad mech invade etc..) they are going to be determined.
Research: 1 Action
[] Psychic shielding 150 -> 300/300
I definitely think we should finish this, if only so we have a gauge on how the shielding is holding up, right now we do not know what's going on warp-side or how much we should be focusing on that. If things are rolling bad in the background we would know to knuckle down on it
-[] The Basics of Psytech 50 -> 50/200
There is an argument to be made for rounding off Combat Bot Humanization, but lets be honest here, are we really going to need that bit is extra strength anytime soon? Psytech on the other hand we might need urgently again depending on what that shield gouge shows
Diplomacy: 1 Action +1 Free
[] [Free action] Yes (At our new 'public' factory) (requires 25 BP every turn to 'rent' a large and currently unused area for your use, as well as getting you government-provided guards to keep the curious out and distract the Mechanicus.)
Take the deal obviously, it is pretty good and there is no need to nickle and dime these people
[] Bring Anexa to the ship and reveal your true nature
This somewhat if a risk, but we are a diplo AI and she is almost a perfect candidate for subversion. The more we lie to her the harder it will be to unspool all the lies. Plus like I said above Vita could use a friend as well as another pair of hands, maybe even a researcher
Construction: 2 Actions = 400 BP
-[] Trade goods 80 BP
The reasoning here is we may have turns where we do not want to spent an action to construct so it would be helpful to have a stock of goods to pay from. Also this is valuable stuff. If we want to say talk to the other governments or bribe someone while doing spy stuff it would help to have the means
-[] Shuttle Port 100 BP
-[] Shuttle 20 BP
It is unlikely we are going to need more than one shuttle in the foreseeable future, but we are going to need that if we want to pick up Anexa
-[] Manufactory x2 200 BP
And the rest goes into production capacity. There isn't much point in building a tunnel given the cost. 50 BP/mile means that with a full construction action spent on it we would get 4 miles. Four miles is nothing to a determined search. Given the treasure trove we hold we can expect that if a search is made (if relations break down with Avon, the ad mech invade etc..) they are going to be determined.
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A suggestion. We could say we are a magos biologis.To the cult.
Reasoning:
1. A focus on biologie makes a connection to ai less obvious. Every little bit helps.
2. By reframing the tech we give them as "not our main focus" we are building our authority up. A chemie professor doing high level physic calculations seems more impressive then a physic professor doing the same.
3. It explains some of why we are different (some ) , without making people nervous about an explorator trying to get in contact with the outside
4. Biologis are...not ignored, but never the focus. Being very impressive in a field that,while orthodox, is not part of the mainstream interest of the cult, will make us less(somewhat) interesting while still being impressive.
5. We have juvenat. Its right there. If they ask" what have you been doing for hundreds of years?" Its right there. Its not a weapon. And we dont want to just give it away. But its a good panicbutton to "admit" that our whole focus was on juvenat.
Reasoning:
1. A focus on biologie makes a connection to ai less obvious. Every little bit helps.
2. By reframing the tech we give them as "not our main focus" we are building our authority up. A chemie professor doing high level physic calculations seems more impressive then a physic professor doing the same.
3. It explains some of why we are different (some ) , without making people nervous about an explorator trying to get in contact with the outside
4. Biologis are...not ignored, but never the focus. Being very impressive in a field that,while orthodox, is not part of the mainstream interest of the cult, will make us less(somewhat) interesting while still being impressive.
5. We have juvenat. Its right there. If they ask" what have you been doing for hundreds of years?" Its right there. Its not a weapon. And we dont want to just give it away. But its a good panicbutton to "admit" that our whole focus was on juvenat.
Hmm... that would make sense going forward. Juve-nat is a trade good even for what passes for 'high tech' imperial worlds. We could wander the galaxy hacking our way into their files until we build up a in person reputation.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
We could do a little lie, and claim to be an awakened Daot machine spirit, rather than a Man Of Stone.
Let's turn this one around on them. If they capture any Mechanicus assets, intercept communications, that kind a thing, they can give it all to us and we'll crack it for them.
(Likewise, if they have some project that needs a massive amount of number crunching, you can do it as well. Put "running it on the ship's main processing core" as the excuse for why we can't just give them the CPU.
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We could but it would be a very transparent lie. Machine spirits do not build human avatars and act like we did. There is no place anywhere in her theology for a machine spirit concerned with things so external to itself. And the real answer is obvious as is the reason we would be lying.
cryptoam
building an 1980s encrypted protocol
- Location
- in lockdown waiting and bored...
This sentence appears to have been cut off here.
Last sentence cut off and I would recommend putting only the plan that won the vote in the spoilers from now on as it's a bit annoying to see the whole thing as well as all the other plans that didn't succeed. Not anyone's fault, you ask for clarification and we provide it.
EDIT: If we're gonna keep rolling with the biologis schtick, we'll need the biology and technological research lab for more solid evidence then digital data and will reinforce the juviant treatment if we need to use that card.
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If we collect the new friend, i am open to telling the full truth. If we dont collect her, i would be against it. Also a biolab would be useful.
-Once we went through a bit of the psytechtree and got in contact with the monasteries.
At some point, there will be a lot of xenos to study.
Also, being able to analyze the bodies (and as such genomes)of cooperative(once befriended) psykers will be useful. And a good start into Warppowers.
I am very intersetd in the psykers ability to shape life.
I think there is a lot of potential there most stories dont go into.
Of course,the limits depend on the qm, but i would like to find out at some point.
I wouldnt built a biolab this turn, but maybe put it on the list for later?
-Once we went through a bit of the psytechtree and got in contact with the monasteries.
At some point, there will be a lot of xenos to study.
Also, being able to analyze the bodies (and as such genomes)of cooperative(once befriended) psykers will be useful. And a good start into Warppowers.
I am very intersetd in the psykers ability to shape life.
I think there is a lot of potential there most stories dont go into.
Of course,the limits depend on the qm, but i would like to find out at some point.
I wouldnt built a biolab this turn, but maybe put it on the list for later?
Insult Everyone!
Master of Evil but bad at it.
- Location
- Right behind you~
Great argument, I agree.
Right, so. Let's have Anexa transferred to Aevon enclave (it's most relevant place to us, unlike where she is now where we got a grumpy Orynn to worry abt.), spend some time there (a turn or two, max.) while we keep mom-ing her to have her establish some connection there. THEN we bring her aboard, show her around and the capabilities we're dealing with before dropping the big reveal.
As for the plot of land... Let's discuss plans for it with Aevon, I'm thinking a few manufactories, maybe in a few seperate locales to deny a central target, a shuttle port and then eventually a catapult, or just go straight for the 'pult after we've got enough industry. Maybe see if they're willing to lend a few hands to speed it up. We make sure our plot is well defended though, capable of repelling a good attack if the Mechanicus try. Turn it into a pseudo-military spaceport. Maybe ask them for a copy of their system-survey data for future plannings. Not like you can't acquire it yourself soon easily enough.
Our actual turn actions should mostly be manufactory maxxing for a bit. After we've got enough on that, we can see about building those labs. Also, why are space constructions so much more expensive for the same result? We already need to work through space-launch ops. As-is it's just straight up better to convert?
Edit: maybe we should see about putting our potential mechanicus recruits into contact with eachother? Encourage them to learn from eachother? Tho maybe after a promotion or two.
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- Pronouns
- Zack
I wonder if we should have focused on The Workings of a Void Abacus before Psychic Shielding
Makes sense. Once they are a bit deprogrammed, getting them in touch with other curious minds should help them along.
We should put some effort into deprogramming them first tho.
Ma idea for how( first draft)
1 Add some logic questions to the material that show some minor points where logic and doctrine differ?(nothing to big)
2.See how they react. If its inquisitive get into contact.
3. Once a few month of discussion have positive results, get them in contact with each other
Once they are more open-minded, giving them access to some of our databanks (not only tech stuff, cultural and history stuff too)and contacts with civilians should allow them to build their own opinions.
Edit: first rule of the warp: Use protection!
We should put some effort into deprogramming them first tho.
Ma idea for how( first draft)
1 Add some logic questions to the material that show some minor points where logic and doctrine differ?(nothing to big)
2.See how they react. If its inquisitive get into contact.
3. Once a few month of discussion have positive results, get them in contact with each other
Once they are more open-minded, giving them access to some of our databanks (not only tech stuff, cultural and history stuff too)and contacts with civilians should allow them to build their own opinions.
Edit: first rule of the warp: Use protection!
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No worries! It's going to happen again though. I'm dyslexic and even though it's usually not a problem there are certain words I always mix up in my writing. Marital and martial look identical to me.
Fixed! Proper sentence is:
"and they tend to leave a lot of half-encrypted things around that are nearly as good as encryption keys if you have the computational muscle to analyze them."
Hah. I've got a postgraduate degree in genetics, so... I'm likely to have some opinions on the topic. In short: wide flexibility but within physical limits.
Also, I just realized that you've been researching psychic shielding, not psytech. I keep writing Vita going down to poke at the psytech when it should be her shielding.
*sigh* I'll fix that later.
No worries, i forgot too.
And im not talking about normal biologie.
Well, mostly.
I would appriciate anything you want to share about your perspective.
I suspect the beasts on deathworlds are already as perfect a weapon as nature can create.
And foodproduction on agriworlds is already going strong, mainly because 40k loves ridiculous numbers.
Rather there are xenos that have shown, through warp or waagh,adaptation or old one engineering, that magical biology is possible.
And the spacemarines and abhumans are right there as a human example.
I had some ideas on how to use some of the stuff.
Not realistic, but since its spacemagic used on spacemagical lifeforms i hope we have some wiggleroom.
I have a bunch of ideas about warp stuff, but if i want to create a variant setting i have to start my own thread.
Im mainly interested if any of my ideas (especially the biology ones) would work in your version of the setting.
But its a bit soon for that. Lets focus on building up and making friends.
And im not talking about normal biologie.
Well, mostly.
I would appriciate anything you want to share about your perspective.
I suspect the beasts on deathworlds are already as perfect a weapon as nature can create.
And foodproduction on agriworlds is already going strong, mainly because 40k loves ridiculous numbers.
Rather there are xenos that have shown, through warp or waagh,adaptation or old one engineering, that magical biology is possible.
And the spacemarines and abhumans are right there as a human example.
I had some ideas on how to use some of the stuff.
Not realistic, but since its spacemagic used on spacemagical lifeforms i hope we have some wiggleroom.
I have a bunch of ideas about warp stuff, but if i want to create a variant setting i have to start my own thread.
Im mainly interested if any of my ideas (especially the biology ones) would work in your version of the setting.
But its a bit soon for that. Lets focus on building up and making friends.
If we are going to do this slowly lets have a look at the warnings
1. The alien mechanism is a perversion of the True Path.
This is nonsense, but not provably so under present circumstances unless those files have some kind of proof of one of the many times the Tech Priests were inspired by xenotech. This a backwater planet in the middle of nowhere so I do not think we would be that lucky
2. The soul is the conscience of sentience.
Supposedly the crux of why they do not like AI we cannot go against this directly since we do not have any proof it's not true that does not hinge on Vita saying 'well I'm not evil incarnate' which is exactly what evil incarnate would say.
3. A soul can be bestowed only by the Omnissiah.
Gibberish but also unfalsifiable without much more knowledge of the Warp than we have
4. The Soulless sentience is the enemy of all life.
See Warning Two, we know it's not true, but we cannot use it to get someone to doubt the warnings
5. The knowledge of the Ancients stands beyond question.
This on the other hand shows promise. We have historical files, including all the times the Ancients fucked up on all levels, including in the manufacture of technology, we know 'the Ancients' were not infallible and we can prove it by inserting pieces of our databanks into the training data of young tech priests we aim to
6. The Machine Spirit guards the knowledge of the Ancients.
Bingo. We have a lie. Vita saw that machine spirits are a Machine Cult inventions, neural nets they put into their tech, ergo the 'Ancients' did not use it. This this is a pretty weak position, but there is weaker still coming up.
7. Flesh is fallible, but ritual honours the Machine Spirit.
No, it does not, ritual is what you do when you do not know enough about why something works to fix is from first principles. We can bring up case after case of something unexpected happening to a machine and the ritual making it worse, reasons why it is better to understand than to do by rote. This is the weakest link in the chain.
8. To break with ritual is to break with faith.
Factually true, that faith needs breaking.
So...
[] Diplomacy: get Anexa transferred to the nearest Enclave and continue her deprogramming as well as that of her fellow tech priests by slowly wearing away at the warnings, particularly the fifth, sixth and seventh. Do not come out and say what they should think, present logical and technical problems where the answer contradicts them. Places where ancient technology did not have machine spirits, places where rituals failed, files showing the fallibility of the 'the Ancients'.
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meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
I'm really liking the AdMech parts. Their Magi are so damn petty that it is hilarious. On top of them being monsters that try to pretend being completely cold and logical, so its even better. This, when combined by Orynn getting completely overrun and overruled by Vita in her quest to protect her new student was a treat to read about.
Huh. I thought Vita was just using the psytech to get some idle insight relating to her psychic shielding. Should have commented on it when I noticed it the first time.
Regardless of the way and the pace we are going to be using for subverting/converting/deprogramming our adorable newbie tech-priest, I think we should have Vita take a closer look IC with the free action on their beliefs, warnings of their faith, etc. Especially on the AI. Should give her a better context how to go about eventually revealing the truth to our potential first recruit to the crew.
I think that would be a thing for later, not something we necessarily need to convince the students of, more the senior cult members.
I'm really torn on the Anexa vote. On the one hand, there is a huge amount of benefit to be had bringing her in directly, both narratively and mechanically, but on the other, that's a LOT of risk!
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avatar11792
Et Sic Incipit
- Location
- Planet Earth, North America
I agree with this completely, as all of these facilities would be useful to the people on this planet in some way. I can especially see a cybernetics lab being very useful, as it can boost individual capability quite a lot both mentally and physically if used right. The Mechanicus are not necessarily that advanced in terms of both their implants and their knowledge how to use it, as the updates have demonstrated, so us providing both Superior implants and Superior training and manuals on how to use them would be better in every way.
In terms of an enclave, I would want to buy the land around the forest that we're in, as well as the forest itself. We would definitely want to make it a Fortified Industrial Center, with at least two surface manufactorums which would be notably cheaper because we're not building them underground, though if we do introduce fortifications to each design for defense purposes then the cost would go up a bit anyway.
In terms of defenses, obviously the basics like turrets, bunkers, and trenches, as well as traps, but we're also going to need a significant amount of anti-air and something that can shoot down mechanicus nukes if they decide to new car facility. I do not know if we can build void Shields to defend a large-scale installation, but certainly maybe we can work toward that, if we have something like Titan grade Shields maybe we can just build a bunch of them to cover different critical areas.
I would also like a biology lab and a cybernetics lab, as both would help to massively improve the quality of life with the native population.
As a personal goal of mine, if we did build a biology lab and a cybernetics lab, it occurred to me maybe we could make the equivalent of Replica soldiers from FEAR, only controlled with cybernetic implants instead of psychic telepathy like Alma and her kids had. I feel cybernetics would be more reliable than psyker powers anyway, and I could definitely see a use for actual organic people being used as parts of our crew. I would not necessarily want to rely on an all robotic Force under our control, as there are weaknesses to robots and Androids and such that organics don't necessarily have, and vice versa. If we had both we would have the best of both worlds.
Having organic I assume cloned humans would also make it relatively easy to introduce biomods and a mix of cybernetic, genetic, and possibly chemical and maybe even nanite augments to make them more capable than standard human baseline anyway, so they would be of higher utility than a normal human could anyway. Plus, if we do introduce some form of cybernetic implant that enhances learning or maybe even provides data downloading, we could possibly grow them accelerated kind of like the clone troopers in Star wars, where they grew twice as fast as normal humans, and unlike the Kaminoans we could just design them so that once introduced with a proper biological stimulus they just switch back to normal human growth rates at age 20, so they get the benefits of an accelerated maturation combined with a normal human lifespan, though it would be quite longer with cybernetics and the rejuvenat we could get a hold of.
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Cloning is uniquely dangerous in 40K, we do not know why, you would have to ask Fabius Bile, he seems to have cracked the code, but when the IoM tried it the effects range from 'just' being a lot easier to possess by daemons and lower willpower to 'death by bad luck'.