Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
[X] Plan Tourneys, Judgements and Friendships
The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest
- Thread starter Teen Spirit
- Start date
Temes1066
To Defy Gravity you must Let It Go
- Location
- Coleraine
First of all, how dare you call my plan Shambolic. Secondly, even if Autumn lasts for 1-2 years early Autumn is going to be warmer in the North then late Autumn. Thirdly Tourneys, Judgements and Friendships understanding of geophagy is shambolic (i.e. Eyrie-Detour thought the Northern Vale-Seaguard)
Perhaps most importantly both Introducing the Princess Knight and Tourneys, Judgements and Friendships involving going to tourneys however it is much more likely that a Tourney will happen in the Reach and the Stormlands which is later in the Princess Knight plan and thus we will have trained more meaning we are more likely to win the tourney we enter and therefore get knighted.
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[X] Plan Introducing the Princess-Knight
[X] Plan Tourneys, Judgements and Friendships
Honestly don't have the time or energy to read through the discussion in detail rn, hopefully everything goes well, if not I guess that's that.
Also may I ask why that plan is too chaotic? I thought it was nice at first glance
Is there any plan which includes all you mentioned? I don't remember the exact details of the one I chose tbf
And also, I agree, this Rhaenyra will always have issues with men thinking she's overstepping or too "manly" but if nothing else she's checking them "Rightful King" boxes in a way the other routes (IIRC Social hax and INT build) wouldn't have been able to do. She's always going to have issues with people who are way too close minded, but those close minded people would still (and even more... justified?) if she were a perfect, dainty, beautiful lady.
Honestly I have been thinking that it's kind of funny since the Westerosi have such a hard-on for Martial skills/feats and "wise, just" Kings, which this Rhaenyra could easily fulfill, so her brother might be in the unique position of being judged against his sister even when it comes to the martial skills, too. Wonder how that would develop their relationship?
Obviously this is all to say we should take on our younger brother as a squire when the time comes! just half-joking
[X] Plan Tourneys, Judgements and Friendships
Honestly don't have the time or energy to read through the discussion in detail rn, hopefully everything goes well, if not I guess that's that.
Also may I ask why that plan is too chaotic? I thought it was nice at first glance
Is there any plan which includes all you mentioned? I don't remember the exact details of the one I chose tbf
And also, I agree, this Rhaenyra will always have issues with men thinking she's overstepping or too "manly" but if nothing else she's checking them "Rightful King" boxes in a way the other routes (IIRC Social hax and INT build) wouldn't have been able to do. She's always going to have issues with people who are way too close minded, but those close minded people would still (and even more... justified?) if she were a perfect, dainty, beautiful lady.
Honestly I have been thinking that it's kind of funny since the Westerosi have such a hard-on for Martial skills/feats and "wise, just" Kings, which this Rhaenyra could easily fulfill, so her brother might be in the unique position of being judged against his sister even when it comes to the martial skills, too. Wonder how that would develop their relationship?
Obviously this is all to say we should take on our younger brother as a squire when the time comes! just half-joking
- Location
- Spain
It is not cowardice to prioritize networking with our vassals that we will only have the chance of meeting during this royal progess over a tourney wich we can take pretty much anytime in King's Landing...
Slowing down on training and on becoming a knight so that we can take advantage of the more unique opportunities we will have during the Royal Progress doesn't mean abandoning our dreams...
- Pronouns
- They/Them
That's a valid enough statement, however Princess Knight doesn't include the actual rulership stuff that will help Rhaenerys to seem to be the Full Picture, the Real Deal (TM).
For me that's a meaningful and serious deficit.
It might be a bit too much, but adding in the Husband Hunting feels like it adds in a dissonant note.
If we make friends we can quite easily just use them as a basis for searching for a husband in a few years, but if including it as a major goal it feels like it just creates a dissonant note in terms of doing too many things that don't add up to a coherent picture. I'm also of the opposite opinion of some people, who think the Knighthood can wait but the marriage cannot. I think that the Knighthood is a key part of her "pose" or "image" while the marriage has a few more years until relevant.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Incidentally, @Teen Spirit , in Princess-Knight, roughly where will we be around when the Queen is expected to give birth? Where will the Progress be, that is.
I could take the shot to do a variation of the two leading plans that has Princess Knight's schedule but the other plan's everything else... but only if it didn't get in the way of the birth etc.
I could take the shot to do a variation of the two leading plans that has Princess Knight's schedule but the other plan's everything else... but only if it didn't get in the way of the birth etc.
Temes1066
To Defy Gravity you must Let It Go
- Location
- Coleraine
To give you a brief lowdown: Tourney Judgements and Friendships fails to recognize that Late Autumn in the North will be far colder than early Autumn, the route planning is pretty bad (eg. Eyrie-Detour thought the Northern Vale-Seaguard) and fails to recognize that the vast majority of tourneys happen in the Reach and we may need more time to train for said tourneys so we can be the undisputed winner and thus get knighted.
Rhaenyra wants to know potential husbands before marrying them, however being rushed into a match because we were to busy concentrating on trying become a Knight would cause a lot of stress. (Especially if we went for a plan that means be the time we are properly trained up we can't find any tourneys [such as say Late Autumn in the North])
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Honestly, you make a far better argument for "Not your plan but not the winning plan" than for your plan here.
Like, you go, "Hey, we should worry about the onset of late Autumn and its influence on our plans to become a Knight" without therefore also taking the obvious point that if we're spending an entire year stalling, this only increases the odds that we'll not be able to find a good enough Tourney to be Knighted at before Winter comes, which would add several years to our timeline to become a Knight.
To the extent that we say that being North in what might be late autumn is a problem... we'd have to for the same reasons say that being un-Knighted in what might be late Autumn is also a problem.
- Pronouns
- Reader
There is no other way to become a knight. Frankly there is are unacceptable risks and unavoidable risks. The tourney's are one of the unavoidable ones in my opinion.
Temes1066
To Defy Gravity you must Let It Go
- Location
- Coleraine
But we can still train a bit more in the lead up to tourneys, which is what Plan Introducing the Princess-Knight features but watch out @The Laurent considers any more knightly training to be stalling.
You claim that training is stalling and there will no tourneys in the Reach just because it will be Late Autumn in the popular plan I am favouring, you just being obtuse and argumentative for the sake of it aren't you.
but fine if/when Plan Tourneys, Judgements and Friendships goes wrong in any way shape or form, I should get the right to say I told you so.
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- Location
- The US
A Reminder of the Throne's Authority when combined with Your Introduction to the Realm allows us to interact with the widest swathe of the nobility, both the most important lords and the "nobles that have been out of touch with the crown" which I think is important.
I'm not even that opposed to the justice purpose, but I do think Authority also helps demonstrate our rulership ability because by demonstrating that we can keep the realm stable now, we are proving that we can keep the realm stable as a monarch in our own right. Combined with our ambitions of knighthood, we can be seen as a strong protector of the realm who believes in westerosi chivalry and can be trusted to keep the realm safe - an archetype which would be seen as clearly denoting good and right rulership by our subjects and IC makes a lot of sense to me as a path Rhaenyra would be interested in given the martial path we chose for her.
I also think that, while Diplomacy and Administration are not necessarily weaknesses of Rhaenyra, they're also not her great strengths and I'm somewhat worried about failing at administering justice without real training
I'm not even that opposed to the justice purpose, but I do think Authority also helps demonstrate our rulership ability because by demonstrating that we can keep the realm stable now, we are proving that we can keep the realm stable as a monarch in our own right. Combined with our ambitions of knighthood, we can be seen as a strong protector of the realm who believes in westerosi chivalry and can be trusted to keep the realm safe - an archetype which would be seen as clearly denoting good and right rulership by our subjects and IC makes a lot of sense to me as a path Rhaenyra would be interested in given the martial path we chose for her.
I also think that, while Diplomacy and Administration are not necessarily weaknesses of Rhaenyra, they're also not her great strengths and I'm somewhat worried about failing at administering justice without real training
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Temes1066
To Defy Gravity you must Let It Go
- Location
- Coleraine
That is also a very good point.
- Pronouns
- Reader
to be honest I don't see your plan as taking any extra time to train than the others given we'll be hitting every tourney wherever we go. I think the entire point is to hit as many as possible in every applicable kingdom with which order we take them being less relevant than just giving ourselves the maximum amount of time and tourneys to attend. frankly only mine is actually putting off leaving for a while which would give us several more turns to train. we have a prediction on a long Autumn which I take seriously since it give Teen Spirit time to possibly include plot centric characters like Viserys and Johanna into the progress if we include them.
but since everyone else is being in a ridiculous rush because of the season shifting to Autumn panic, I suppose I have to pick a new vote anyway and that one is about as good as any other. visiting the north early is probably wise though you do still lose points for the crowns authority nonsense. would honestly prefer justice, which probably your biggest vote loser rather than anything about the order of your trip.
[X] Plan Introducing the Princess-Knight
King of Discord
I'm QueenErisJane32 on AH.Com
[X] Plan Introducing the Princess-Knight
[X] The Future Queen
Training isn't stalling + These plans include a basic sense of direction. After all the Northern Vale isn't connected to Seaguard
[X] The Future Queen
Training isn't stalling + These plans include a basic sense of direction. After all the Northern Vale isn't connected to Seaguard
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- Location
- Who knows?
[X] The Future Queen
[X] The Warrior Queen
[X] The Warrior Queen
- Location
- Israel
[X] Plan Introducing the Princess-Knight
Honestly, while I got convinced after reading how [Dispensing Justice + Introduction to the Realm + Training Publicly + Enter a Tourney] have good synergy, I still want to use this time to try and find a potential husband/consort who won't mind being a beard. While I don't mind being friends with Laenor, the HotD canon proved he is incapable of giving us legitimate children, which I find to be a problem.
Aside from that, I agree with going to the North first when there is there is little chance of the seasons changing rather than risk it in the later parts of the progress.
But all in all, I find all plans to be great. I just prefer this one a bit more.
Edit: Changed my vote.
Honestly, while I got convinced after reading how [Dispensing Justice + Introduction to the Realm + Training Publicly + Enter a Tourney] have good synergy, I still want to use this time to try and find a potential husband/consort who won't mind being a beard. While I don't mind being friends with Laenor, the HotD canon proved he is incapable of giving us legitimate children, which I find to be a problem.
Aside from that, I agree with going to the North first when there is there is little chance of the seasons changing rather than risk it in the later parts of the progress.
But all in all, I find all plans to be great. I just prefer this one a bit more.
Edit: Changed my vote.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
I have said he can here it's just a miserable experience
Here's my attempt at a plan, pardon any mistakes as I am sleepy but now too invested in the discussion to actually sleep.
[X] Plan Once and Future King
-[X] [Purpose] Your Introduction to the Realm
-[X] [Purpose] Justice and Settling Affairs
-[X] [Goal] Enter a Tourney
-[X] [Goal] Train Publicly
-[X] [Goal] Find more Friends
-[X] [Goal] Privacy with Alicent
-[X] [Dragon] Syrax will travel with you
-[X] [Companion] Alicent Hightower
-[X] [Companion] Raylon Tarly
-[X] [Companion] Gwayne Hightower
-[X] [Companion] Laenor Velaryon
-[X] [Companion] Rhaenys Targaryen
-[X] [Companion] Maester(s) to answer or consult privately any question on local law, as Aegon I did.
-[X] [Tour] Full Tour (4 turns, the entire realm)
--[X] Maidenpool
--[X] Ship to Wickendon
--[X] Eyrie
--[X] Runestone
--[X] Gulltown
--[X] Ship to White Harbor
--[X] Winterfell
--[X] Castle Black
--[X] The Twins
--[X] Raventree Hall
--[X] Riverrun
--[X] Stonehedge
--[X] Harrenhal
--[X] House Vance (Wayfarer's Rest)
--[X] Golden Tooth
--[X] The Crag
--[X] Casterly Rock/Lannisport
--[X] Ship to Pyke
--[X] Ship to Arbor
--[X] Ship to Oldtown
--[X] Horn-Hill
--[X] High-garden
--[X] Long Table
--[X] Blackhaven
--[X] Bronzegate
--[X] Storm's End
--[X] Ship to Driftmark
--[X] Let's go home!
Is this okay? I kept consulting a map to make sure the route mostly made sense.
Anyways, that's that. I spent way too much time in this lol
[X] Plan Once and Future King
-[X] [Purpose] Your Introduction to the Realm
-[X] [Purpose] Justice and Settling Affairs
-[X] [Goal] Enter a Tourney
-[X] [Goal] Train Publicly
-[X] [Goal] Find more Friends
-[X] [Goal] Privacy with Alicent
-[X] [Dragon] Syrax will travel with you
-[X] [Companion] Alicent Hightower
-[X] [Companion] Raylon Tarly
-[X] [Companion] Gwayne Hightower
-[X] [Companion] Laenor Velaryon
-[X] [Companion] Rhaenys Targaryen
-[X] [Companion] Maester(s) to answer or consult privately any question on local law, as Aegon I did.
-[X] [Tour] Full Tour (4 turns, the entire realm)
--[X] Maidenpool
--[X] Ship to Wickendon
--[X] Eyrie
--[X] Runestone
--[X] Gulltown
--[X] Ship to White Harbor
--[X] Winterfell
--[X] Castle Black
--[X] The Twins
--[X] Raventree Hall
--[X] Riverrun
--[X] Stonehedge
--[X] Harrenhal
--[X] House Vance (Wayfarer's Rest)
--[X] Golden Tooth
--[X] The Crag
--[X] Casterly Rock/Lannisport
--[X] Ship to Pyke
--[X] Ship to Arbor
--[X] Ship to Oldtown
--[X] Horn-Hill
--[X] High-garden
--[X] Long Table
--[X] Blackhaven
--[X] Bronzegate
--[X] Storm's End
--[X] Ship to Driftmark
--[X] Let's go home!
Is this okay? I kept consulting a map to make sure the route mostly made sense.
If there's houses in there that other plans may not have, that's because there's some I added because they were pretty loyal during the Dance to OG Rhaenyra (such as Bronzegate/Bucklers who literally was rather executed than swear to Aegon II, same with Long Table/Merryweathers) others because they are surprisingly helpful (such as House Vance/Wayfarer's Rest, they supposedly have much more soldiers than House Tully, either house would be a boon)
I made a stop in Fair Isle because honestly there might be something worth in just smoothing things over a little since Jaehaerys kept snubbing them over what happened with Rhaena (which, fair, but y'know, we're above that and yadda yadda), The Crag is the Westerlings' seat, so I don't know if to include them but it'd be good just to flex our "yeah I'm the Heir whether you like it or not 
" muscles.
There's also other houses such as the start specifically on Maiden pool/Wickendon that I chose PARTICULARLY because those were the start of Jaehaerys' own first Progress. I want for people to look back and draw parallels since this Rhaenyra's greatest strength is that, unlike the other builds, people will have no doubts about who will have the pants in whatever marriage she's in and so the husband's family won't rule the Realm instead.
The choice of Maester companions is a bit odd but Aegon I during his Progress traveled with 6 Maesters, which made a nice reference since with Aegon it was 7 people for 7 Kingdoms, so he consulted the Maesters when he held court in regards to the particular laws of a place; which I think it's a nice parallel since with the JUSTICE purpose Rhaenyra is doing pretty much the same.
Finally, I'd like us if possible to get the blessing of the High Septon in Oldtown, which should be doable since traveling with Gwayne and Alicent makes it look like the Hightowers are backing us. This is simply because Aegon I always was blessed by the HS whenever he visited.
edit: also I think no plan included the Redwynes. I included the Arbor because if the Velaryons do side with Daemon, we'll need a Big Stick fleet to fight them off, and I'd like to get a headstart on this if possible. Also included Horn Hill/Tarly because our Sworn Shield's from there so he can see family slash maybe convert them to Warrior Queen Rhaenyra ways
" muscles.There's also other houses such as the start specifically on Maiden pool/Wickendon that I chose PARTICULARLY because those were the start of Jaehaerys' own first Progress. I want for people to look back and draw parallels since this Rhaenyra's greatest strength is that, unlike the other builds, people will have no doubts about who will have the pants in whatever marriage she's in and so the husband's family won't rule the Realm instead.
The choice of Maester companions is a bit odd but Aegon I during his Progress traveled with 6 Maesters, which made a nice reference since with Aegon it was 7 people for 7 Kingdoms, so he consulted the Maesters when he held court in regards to the particular laws of a place; which I think it's a nice parallel since with the JUSTICE purpose Rhaenyra is doing pretty much the same.
Finally, I'd like us if possible to get the blessing of the High Septon in Oldtown, which should be doable since traveling with Gwayne and Alicent makes it look like the Hightowers are backing us. This is simply because Aegon I always was blessed by the HS whenever he visited.
edit: also I think no plan included the Redwynes. I included the Arbor because if the Velaryons do side with Daemon, we'll need a Big Stick fleet to fight them off, and I'd like to get a headstart on this if possible. Also included Horn Hill/Tarly because our Sworn Shield's from there so he can see family slash maybe convert them to Warrior Queen Rhaenyra ways
Anyways, that's that. I spent way too much time in this lol
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
I would advise shaving five stops off
Is it acceptable now? ^^