For his part Porter had not minded the idea of picking up people in need of a ride as part of his lightning riding patrols though the undercity and beyond,
I think we'll think of something - it's important to remember that we are not making new spirits / beings. We are using / changing what's already there.
[X] Plan Familiar Opportunity
-[X] Use Crown Question on the spirit in front of you to find where other Kemmler's caches are located
-[X] Use the Crown on the current scene to find where we can find other spirits of extinct species
-[X] Activate Empathy excellency, All Things betray (with willpower), and Hellscry Chakra to ease the communication
-[X] Ask the spirits questions:
--[X] Would they be amendable to changes in their bodies, if those changes made it less likely that they would go extinct in the future?
--[X] Do they need to be resurrected all at once, or is a small but steady stream of resurrections ok?
-[X] If they are amendable, work on resurrecting them as natural familiars (Synergy 5 psychic phenomena)
-[X] If not, de-extinction is a worthy cause
[X] Plan Friendly Hivemind
-[X] Use Crown Question on the spirit in front of you to find where other Kemmler's caches are located
-[X] Use the Crown on the current scene to find where we can find other spirits of extinct species
-[X] Activate Empathy excellency, All Things betray (with willpower), and Hellscry Chakra to ease the communication
-[X] Ask the spirits questions:
--[X] Would they be amendable to changes in their bodies, if those changes made it less likely that they would go extinct in the future?
--[X] Do they need to be resurrected all at once, or is a small but steady stream of resurrections ok?
-[X] If they are amendable, work on resurrecting them while retaining their current unity, as a sort of hivemind
-[X] If not, de-extinction is a worthy cause
Is Yog correct in saying that we wouldn't have to craft bodies (which cost regents) for the pigeon sprits with his familiar plan like we did for Tiffany?
1) We have Lash to help, who has flesh crafting at 5
2) We don't have to incarnate billions of pigeons at once, I am fairly sure, we need to make initital amount of bodies that will self-reproduce naturally. The collective spirit can lend its power to making that first resurrected generation
3) If we aren't doing this now, we'll have the Forge, which helps a lot in making things, including flesh crafting
4) The complexity of individual pigeons is far lower than Lash's body.
1) We have Lash to help, who has flesh crafting at 5
2) We don't have to incarnate billions of pigeons at once, I am fairly sure, we need to make initital amount of bodies that will self-reproduce naturally. The collective spirit can lend its power to making that first resurrected generation
3) If we aren't doing this now, we'll have the Forge, which helps a lot in making things, including flesh crafting
4) The complexity of individual pigeons is far lower than Lash's body.
If they're self reproducing won't the newly born pigeons have souls entirely irrespective of the pigeon spirit collective? That means they'd still need our help to incarnate the rest into bodies. Really what I'm asking is if this would be a regent hog or not. If all we need is meat and bone in general for the bodies then we could get it from the Five Courts but it hasn't been made clear if that's viable or if we'd need regents enough to incarnate billions of pigeons over time.
If they're self reproducing won't the newly born pigeons have souls entirely irrespective of the pigeon spirit collective? That means they'd still need our help to incarnate the rest into bodies. Really what I'm asking is if this would be a regent hog or not. If all we need is meat and bone in general for the bodies then we could get it from the Five Courts but it hasn't been made clear if that's viable or if we'd need regents enough to incarnate billions of pigeons over time.
This seems to be a collective spirit of the whole species. It certainly has more individual pigeon souls than the last generation before extinction had. I assume that they're going to be linked to the bodies somehow, probably through the souls of the first pigeons to be reborn.
This shouldn't be a resource hog in the sense of using stuff like splendor reagents that we have limited supplies of, I think. At least in my opinion.
Is Yog correct in saying that we wouldn't have to craft bodies (which cost regents) for the pigeon sprits with his familiar plan like we did for Tiffany?
Ok, clarifying this:
1) would we need to spend extra AP on this, compared to base deextonction, and, if so, how many approximately?
2) Can Molly's clones do this? Or at least help.
2) Would we need to spend unique resources (ie splendor reagents) for this, or would non unique ones (ie just the background) suffice? Ie do we lose anything unique doing this?
Ok, clarifying this:
1) would we need to spend extra AP on this, compared to base deextonction, and, if so, how many approximately?
2) Can Molly's clones do this? Or at least help.
2) Would we need to spend unique resources (ie splendor reagents) for this, or would non unique ones (ie just the background) suffice? Ie do we lose anything unique doing this?
If you just choose de-extinction it will be done as part of this action with help in the background
The plan needs 1 AP from Molly to use Arcana making for the template. Sadly SGI clones cannot use the relevant ability so they would not be able to help with this.
The plan needs 1 AP from Molly to use Arcana making for the template. Sadly SGI clones cannot use the relevant ability so they would not be able to help with this.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jul 16, 2024 at 10:29 AM, finished with 92 posts and 17 votes.
[X] Plan Familiar Opportunity
-[X] Use Crown Question on the spirit in front of you to find where other Kemmler's caches are located
-[X] Use the Crown on the current scene to find where we can find other spirits of extinct species
-[X] Activate Empathy excellency, All Things betray (with willpower), and Hellscry Chakra to ease the communication
-[X] Ask the spirits questions:
--[X] Would they be amendable to changes in their bodies, if those changes made it less likely that they would go extinct in the future?
--[X] Do they need to be resurrected all at once, or is a small but steady stream of resurrections ok?
-[X] If they are amendable, work on resurrecting them as natural familiars (Synergy 5 psychic phenomena)
-[X] If not, de-extinction is a worthy cause
[X] Plan Friendly Hivemind
-[X] Use Crown Question on the spirit in front of you to find where other Kemmler's caches are located
-[X] Use the Crown on the current scene to find where we can find other spirits of extinct species
-[X] Activate Empathy excellency, All Things betray (with willpower), and Hellscry Chakra to ease the communication
-[X] Ask the spirits questions:
--[X] Would they be amendable to changes in their bodies, if those changes made it less likely that they would go extinct in the future?
--[X] Do they need to be resurrected all at once, or is a small but steady stream of resurrections ok?
-[X] If they are amendable, work on resurrecting them while retaining their current unity, as a sort of hivemind
-[X] If not, de-extinction is a worthy cause
1) We have Lash to help, who has flesh crafting at 5
2) We don't have to incarnate billions of pigeons at once, I am fairly sure, we need to make initital amount of bodies that will self-reproduce naturally. The collective spirit can lend its power to making that first resurrected generation
3) If we aren't doing this now, we'll have the Forge, which helps a lot in making things, including flesh crafting
4) The complexity of individual pigeons is far lower than Lash's body.
We dont have Lash to help.
Lash is Flesh 5. NOT Beast 5. And she doesnt have the Spirit Lore either.
She has zero applicability here. Nor do we vote for her time. We certainly did not vote for her time to incarnate an entire species.
The Forge does not work for Simulacra AFAIK.
And Molly has Science 0.
We dont have Lash to help.
Lash is Flesh 5. NOT Beast 5. And she doesnt have the Spirit Lore either.
She has zero applicability here. Nor do we vote for her time. We certainly did not vote for her time to incarnate an entire species.
The Forge does not work for Simulacra AFAIK.
And Molly has Science 0.
Yes, it would allow her to make radically larger modifications. She could walk in here with a tub of worms and walk out with a biologically viable griffon, where normally she would have to use some cats and eagles in the mix. (Mechanically flat -3 to difficulty that stacks with everything else)
It would make Arcana cheaper in terms of resources for the body, also by 1 Dot. No effect on prodigies though those are mortal magic. Same reason reactor for making Uranium fuel rods does not help you make combustion engines
How often does this... happen? The thought is as much bewildered as sad, remembering what you knew about the extinction of the passenger pigeon from school, there is just no place in the story of hunting and habitat destruction for an evil wizard. He must have just slipped in, making use of one the many victims of mankind's march. "Where do I find more extinct species?" The answer is not, as you half-expect, getting dragged along like a fish on a line from one specter to the last, it is a description, dry as one might find in an old time atlas, though the geography it describes is of the spirit world.
...Find the place where the Lost was murdered, take five steps counterclockwise shed a drop of blood under a full moon step through and you'll find the thing you seek.
...Find the place where the Lost died chained by the light of the full moon shed even a single tear, pace the space in which t'was bound, step into the Other world
...Find an image drawn by the sorrowing be they skilled be they not, but they must not have known the Lost, burn it, break it make it dust by the moon neither full nor new in a place where nothing grows then step through
Unlocked Action: Find the Spirits of Extinct Species
As the instructions fade you get the sense that not all the species that passed from the world would leave a shade, certainly not one as powerful as this one. Kemmler had done something... Maybe you can still make something good out of this atrocity, but it would be helpful to find more about the man himself, about other things he left behind.
Where can more cashes left behind by Kemmler still be found?
A dolmen in a forest somewhere in eastern Germany, marked as the crow flies, a red brick building in Zagreb with bars on its windows holding a collection of yellowing letters, they had been part of the 41st Zagreb Salon. Last of all a shipwreck off the coast of the Bahamas just within the bounds of one of the world's most famous triangles.
Discovered Locations of Kemlerite cashes: Rügen Island, Zagreb, The Caribbean Sea
Lost 2 Essence -> Now at 16/18 (Two Questions Asked)
Regained 2 Essence -> Now at 18/18 (Urge of the Forbidden)
Looking up at the great swarm of bones you try to make yourself understood as Lydia had, less and more than they were, a screaming darkness wanting to be heard. What if I gave them the ear of the powerful? The thought comes to mind as natural as breathing. It's not killing two birds with one stone, but moving two birds in your way with one stone.
Lost 2 Essence (HC and Empathy Excellency) -> Now at 16/18
Lost 1 Willpower (ATB) -> Now at 8/9
They had never expected to all be reborn, all they wish is for those like them to take wing again in life. If some of those who walk on two legs wish to fly again with them then so be it. The People of the Hills, the People of the River and the People of the Hearth took them in kinship once and it was good, but some must be free to fly where they will to roost in old places and new.
That seems more than fair so you signal agreement.
Bargain Made: De-Extinct a population of wild passenger pigeons. If you wish for some of them to be natural familiars the spirit will not object.
All at once silence descends upon a sky full of bones, louder than thunder and billions upon billions of tiny hollow eyes are focused on you.
"Molly... what did you say?" Harry asks, deeply concerned.
"She promised to bring back the passenger pigeon and something about making familiars though I'm not sure what for." Lydia looks to you for confirmation.
"It was all this talk of the Fallen that got me thinking about will and its warping. Lawbreaking at least for the First through the Fourth is really magic-making but for things people really shouldn't be doing on the regular. If you could just insulate the will from magic..."
"Definitely not the Fifth," Lydia cuts in seriously. "There are things watching mortal necromancers at their craft and only some of those things were once human. There is no reason to make their way into the world of the living any easier."
"One through Four it is then, the world's not ready for the magical TARDIS either..."
"Molly..." Harry stops and starts again twice before he finally settles on: "That sounds like a technically fascinating idea that the Council would kill you for having, or trying to put into practice at least. The Laws of magic don't just exist because of what Black Magic does to people, that's how it started sure back in whatever pre-pre-history wizards first started organizing, but wizards on the Council believe in the Laws the way you believe in the Ten Commandments, they believe magic comes from life and they shouldn't be turned against life, they believe that the minds of others are sacrosanct. The idea of someone mass producing a means that get around the Laws is would make the next meeting descend into a search for tar and feathers. The only reason they are going to think of why you would want to have a means to break the Laws on mass is because you're planning to break the Laws on mass."
"Magic doesn't come from life," Lydia interjects into the silence that once again falls after he'd finished speaking. "The Dead are part of the Essence of the world and so are magical as much as any living man or star or blade of grass."
What do you reply?
[] Harry, I believe in the Ten Commandments, I've also killed people, the Knights of the Cross kill people when they have no other choice, what you are describing is a hurdle ot cross, not a reason to never set off on the road, not when it could save lives
[] First off I'll test this and see if it can be done, then we can consider who to introduce it to and how
[] Maybe... maybe you're right, this might take too long to roll out
[] Write in
OOC: Harry has seen enough of Molly's shenanigans to not doubt that she can do it, so he's skipped right to arguing that she shouldn't. He's learning.
I think we may want to consider switching to the Incarna Hivemind option, given the level of potential pushback here.
The Laws aren't just metaphysical, they're also social 'institutions' that exist for a reason. Mass producing (and uncontrollably mass producing) a way for anyone to mind control others without breaking themselves probably doens't stop them breaking the minds of their victims as the inflexible command shatters the fragile mind it's embedded in.
[X] It's not means to circumvent the Laws. It's means against the corruption brought by breaking the Laws. Murder is murder, no matter if done with a bullet or a fireball. Rape is rape, no matter if done with drugs or mind altering magic. All should be punished accordingly. But if this allows more leeway in punishment? If at least one in ten of those who kill in self-defense will be spared the sword? If just one more law-breaker feels genuine regret? It's worth it.
Yes, I am ruthlessly pushing Dresden's own history into this.
Incarna or not doesn't really matter to me tbh? But if it's going to get their knickers in a twist we should probably not do something to spark a war with the council when we're trying to help them you know?
I think we may want to consider switching to the Incarna Hivemind option, given the level of potential pushback here.
The Laws aren't just metaphysical, they're also social 'institutions' that exist for a reason. Mass producing (and uncontrollably mass producing) a way for anyone to mind control others without breaking themselves probably doens't stop them breaking the minds of their victims as the inflexible command shatters the fragile mind it's embedded in.
Oh yeah, it definitely does not fix that.... though Molly can think of at least one way she might be able to design a mind control spell that does not break minds. She'd just have to clone and graft whatever part of the Wan Kuei's dead souls are able to use Obligation onto mortals, without breaking the mortal host's souls obviously
[X] It's not means to circumvent the Laws. It's means against the corruption brought by breaking the Laws. Murder is murder, no matter if done with a bullet or a fireball. Rape is rape, no matter if done with drugs or mind altering magic. All should be punished accordingly. But if this allows more leeway in punishment? If at least one in ten of those who kill in self-defense will be spared the sword? If just one more law-breaker feels genuine regret? It's worth it.
[X] It's not means to circumvent the Laws. It's means against the corruption brought by breaking the Laws. Murder is murder, no matter if done with a bullet or a fireball. Rape is rape, no matter if done with drugs or mind altering magic. All should be punished accordingly. But if this allows more leeway in punishment? If at least one in ten of those who kill in self-defense will be spared the sword? If just one more law-breaker feels genuine regret? It's worth it.
