Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Some wizards are able to keep up with specialized skills in the modern world, that is not the same thing as wizards as a group being able to play Illuminati with all of human civilization, no one working with just regular human brains, a few hundred to a few thousand people tops, some of them hermits who are not even trying can do that. That said given that Cold War WoD... I think Jim Butcher might think they could because he fundamentally does not understand among other things international relations. The US had always known the Russians were also afraid of all out war. Nixon used Madman Theory.
Its explicit Word of Jim that they did.
That they have been doing this since before the Renaissance. Heck, that they are responsible FOR the Renaissance in the Dresden Files universe.
A subtle but important distinction, maybe. :)





Quote from: chadu on February 22, 2010, 04:57:13 PM

Our biggest issue: why don't wizards just WIN (in pre-complex tech eras)? I argued for the sliding scale of "born in X, advanced tech shows up in Y" idea… but it's not satisfying.

They kinda /do/ win. It's one reason the White Council thinks of itself as something so ohmygodmighty important. But bear in mind a few things:

1) The White Council /exists/ in order to limit the power of wizards. These days, it's mostly about keeping wizards out of the black magic–but in the past, it was also to keep wizards out of politics. They would show up as advisers, rarely (most "court wizards" were charlatans or underpowered schmucks), but the Council itself was very much against getting involved in things.
That's mainly because if the Council threw its weight in anywhere, it was all but guaranteeing a civil war among its own members. (Remember, it's very Euro-centric.)

The original Merlin learned a lesson about wizards involving themselves in politics. They already have too much power to use wisely, from his point of view.

2) Wizards were a hell of a lot more rare in centuries past. Their numbers have increased along with the world population, but back then a given country was lucky if it had produced a single wizard-level talent more than about one generation in three.

3) Travel in general was a lot harder. Disease, in general, was a lot more rampant and likely to kill you. Yeah, wizards have the capacity to recover from things, but they don't have any particular increased resistance to contracting a disease. They just come back from it in better shape than regular folks. For example, if you get a good case of pneumonia (like I did), you've got a reduced capacity to resist subsequent similar infections. And that's it. In fact, having gotten pneumonia once gives you a pretty darn big mathematical probability that you're going to die of pneumonia in the future. (Pneumonia being one of the main things that actually does the killing when you've got cancer or other serious medical issues.) Wizards don't face that same danger. If they beat it, they beat it, and it isn't of any more consequence than getting over a cold.

But even so, before antibiotics, wizards were as worried about disease as everyone else was. And a great way to not get diseases was to STAY HOME. Which most of them did. That kinda limited how much conflict they would actually get involved in.


4) The Inquisition. Fact of the matter is that the Inquisition, for better or worse, made everyone REALLY aware of practitioners. If a wizard started slinging his power around willy nilly, it would attract attention. Probably /hostile/ attention, at that. Which leads us to…


5) Wizards have to sleep. Yes, an enraged wizard could probably kill just about anyone he wanted to, flatten towns, all the mighty wizard stuff. But… there are about a million humans to every full-blown wizard talent. A strong wizard can kill a mortal with about as much effort as it would take you to pick up a piece of gravel and toss it twenty feet. Now, go out to a gravel pile and do that a MILLION times.
You aren't going to finish that project today. :D


The appearance of overwhelming power is one of the only things guaranteed to make human beings unify out of sheer fear for their survival. (Example: see Haiti. Overwhelming power of nature drew a response of overwhelming relief efforts from fellow human beings. Now, imagine that someone told those people that the earthquake was someone's fault. Someone real, and dangerous, but someone who you could punch in the nose. Think about that.)
Wizards were certainly a force of nature. One that would frighten people enough to go after them with overwhelming numbers and a vengeance.

Of course, that leaves many, many other things they could do to influence events. The most powerful such was the gathering of information and rapid communications. Their ability to travel rapidly, to gather information and send it elsewhere was something that didn't really get beat until a Mr. Ford, Mr. Marconi, and some guys named Orville and Wilbur came along.
And they were basically in the information business, which is an excellent way to guarantee security.

They were also largely responsible for the Renaissance, in the Dresden universe. Not directly, but by going out and finding the best and brightest minds and seeing to it that they got the education and the chances they needed to succeed in life. Some wizards even did direct mentoring of various brilliant figures of European history (DaVinci and Gallileo were two prime examples).

But they stayed out of direct involvement in wars and politics, instead focusing on becoming involved in the intellectual progress of society. Wizards from France and Germany, for example, would treat each other much the same way as opposing lawyers in a big case. Even when their clients were tearing each other to bits, that didn't meant that the two wizards were foes. They were, in fact, professional colleagues, who were likely to go off and get a beer and roll their eyes at their clients' foolishness.

(All of this is mostly focused on the White Council, which was centered in Europe. Wizards in other areas of the world, such as the Americas, eastern Asia, and Australia have far different histories.)


But that factor–the sheer weight of numbers of mortals–dictated the role they had to assume to survive and prosper. They hoped that a more advanced, less warlike culture would provide a better place for wizards to live. In fact, it did. But it also robbed them of the extreme power they'd possessed until that time, relative to vanilla mortals.

6) PEOPLE BELIEVED IN MAGIC AND IT SCARED THEM. I mean, there was none of this "but there's no such thing as magic" nonsense involved. And not all the witch hunters were in it for the money. There was a class of men who knew all about the various forces of the supernatural, out there in the darkness, and who made themselves as able to contend with them as any mortal could be. If a wizard went all kaboomy on mortals, he knew that there was someone who was going to hunt him, striking in a moment of vulnerability.

(I'll leave it to you to deduce who they grew up into, eventually. It isn't complicated or hard to see.)
End of the day, even wizards bleed. And as the wise Governor of California says, if it bleeds, you can kill it.
But they sure as hell enjoyed their centuries on top of the food chain. :)
Its not relevant to Dresden's plot, because the Dresden Files is an urban fantasy series, not epic fantasy.
At least, its been urban fantasy prior to Peace Talks/Battle Grounds.

But when you are explicitly waging war against an entity that controls most of modern Latin America, and only being held to a stalemate because your enemy has moles inside your organization?
You have to know your enemy, and the world they operate in, very well.

Seriously, they are wizards. INFORMATION is their stock in trade. Blowing shit up is a nice secondary, but its not their primary specialization. Wizards know things.


The US did not. Really. From a distance of half a century, its easy to underestimate the degree of misunderstanding that existed between the power blocs during the Cold War, both political and military. That Evil Empire rhetoric from Ronnie Raygun Reagan was something he genuinely believed.

As for Nixon, the man was explicitly unstable
Several American diplomats, staff members, friends, and family, knew Nixon indulged in alcohol and had trouble battling insomnia, for which he was prescribed sleeping pills. According to Ray Price, he sometimes took them together. This affected his acuity and understanding of his surroundings on several occasions; from John Ehrlichman calling him "looped", to Manolo Sanchez, a Republican operative and special counsel to the President, thinking Nixon had a stroke or heart attack while on the phone with him, to not being able to pick up a telephone call from the British prime minister during the Middle East crisis. Both Nixon's daughter Julie Nixon Eisenhower and friend Billy Graham acknowledged this fact, after his presidency. Nixon also took dilantin, recommended by Jack Dreyfus. That medicine is usually prescribed for seizure attacks, but in Nixon's case it was to battle depression.[14] Also, Henry Kissinger portrayed the 1970 incursion into Cambodia as a symptom of Nixon's supposed instability.[15]
To the point where his own staff told people to ignore things like nuclear launch orders from him.
Its like trying to retrofit strategy into a lot of Donald Trump's decisions.


Its true that Butcher isnt an International Relations expert, or a worldbuilder on par with people like Tolkien or Jordan.
But his intent appears clear.
 
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You cannot be as rich and as economically influential as the White Council is without an acute and ongoing corporate understanding of things like demographics. You certainly cannot weaponize economics as they allegedly did against the Red Court without it.

And we are told and shown, mostly OOC, that prominent wizards understand the world pretty well.
We were shown IC that Merlin had no idea internet existed or how it worked until we showed him.
 
We were shown IC that Merlin had no idea internet existed or how it worked until we showed him.
No, we are shown IC that the Merlin was willing to listen to Molly the baby Infernal explain it.
Using Sanctuary technology to do so.
Not quite the same thing.

The most you can say from that scene is that the Merlin did not understand how forums worked.
Not that he didnt know the Internet existed.

The man controls Wizard BlackRock. Of course he knows the Internet exists, even if he cant use it directly.
Remember that this is the same scene where Molly realizes that the Merlin and his wizard staff had deliberately staged things to give an impression.
For their part three of the wardens scowl, as though you had personally insulted their abilities instead of pointed out a reality. If you had been paying less attention to him you might have missed the way Langtry's eyes go a little unfocused, sending a telepathic message to quiet down... If he can do that then the spoken argument a moment ago was not needed... it was for your benefit to make the Merlin look reasonable.

Cool

You might not entirely trust the man, but it is fun to play these kind of games against someone who is not terrifying like Queen Mab or personally revolting like Broken Seeker
 
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Its explicit Word of Jim that they did.
That they have been doing this since before the Renaissance. Heck, that they are responsible FOR the Renaissance in the Dresden Files universe.

Its not relevant to Dresden's plot, because the Dresden Files is an urban fantasy series, not epic fantasy.
At least, its been urban fantasy prior to Peace Talks/Battle Grounds.

But when you are explicitly waging war against an entity that controls most of modern Latin America, and only being held to a stalemate because your enemy has moles inside your organization?
You have to know your enemy, and the world they operate in, very well.

Seriously, they are wizards. INFORMATION is their stock in trade. Blowing shit up is a nice secondary, but its not their primary specialization. Wizards know things.


The US did not. Really. From a distance of half a century, its easy to underestimate the degree of misunderstanding that existed between the power blocs during the Cold War, both political and military. That Evil Empire rhetoric from Ronnie Raygun Reagan was something he genuinely believed.

As for Nixon, the man was explicitly unstable
Several American diplomats, staff members, friends, and family, knew Nixon indulged in alcohol and had trouble battling insomnia, for which he was prescribed sleeping pills. According to Ray Price, he sometimes took them together. This affected his acuity and understanding of his surroundings on several occasions; from John Ehrlichman calling him "looped", to Manolo Sanchez, a Republican operative and special counsel to the President, thinking Nixon had a stroke or heart attack while on the phone with him, to not being able to pick up a telephone call from the British prime minister during the Middle East crisis. Both Nixon's daughter Julie Nixon Eisenhower and friend Billy Graham acknowledged this fact, after his presidency. Nixon also took dilantin, recommended by Jack Dreyfus. That medicine is usually prescribed for seizure attacks, but in Nixon's case it was to battle depression.[14] Also, Henry Kissinger portrayed the 1970 incursion into Cambodia as a symptom of Nixon's supposed instability.[15]
To the point where his own staff told people to ignore things like nuclear launch orders from him.
Its like trying to retrofit strategy into a lot of Donald Trump's decisions.


Its true that Butcher isnt an International Relations expert, or a worldbuilder on par with people like Tolkien or Jordan.
But his intent appears clear.

Thing is I do not disagree with them being able to as a general trend get people an education so that they can advance the cause of human progress, but there is a difference between knowing enough to get behind something and push and understanding the ultimate ends of your actions and being able to plan for them perfectly. They are in a pretty bad situation how for instance, overextended against vampires who are favored by everything from the drug and people trade, weak states and those states not knowing what they are fighting. Anyway I do not want to spoil things, just pointing out that I agree with the White Council having had a great impact on history, it's just that the law of unintended consequences is still a thing for them as much as for anyone else.
 
No, we are shown IC that the Merlin was willing to listen to Molly the baby Infernal explain it.
Using Sanctuary technology to do so.
Not quite the same thing.
You are misremebering. We showed him internet forums, and he was quick to grasp the concept of online communication, but wasn't aware of it at the beginning.
 
Thing is I do not disagree with them being able to as a general trend get people an education so that they can advance the cause of human progress, but there is a difference between knowing enough to get behind something and push and understanding the ultimate ends of your actions and being able to plan for them perfectly. They are in a pretty bad situation how for instance, overextended against vampires who are favored by everything from the drug and people trade, weak states and those states not knowing what they are fighting. Anyway I do not want to spoil things, just pointing out that I agree with the White Council having had a great impact on history, it's just that the law of unintended consequences is still a thing for them as much as for anyone else.
Plan perfectly? No.
Plan for them? Certainly. It beggars belief that the wizards, whose very stock in trade is information and the judicious use of it, would be that ignorant of the very society that they all live in.

That goes well past plot contrivance and into farce.

The issues with growing populations didnt suddenly show up out of the blue.
World population has been on the rise since it crossed 1 billion around 1800. Wizards live for at least three hundred years. The current crop of adult wizards all saw it coming a century away. They wouldnt exist if they were incapable of being proactive.


Its like the whole The Stars Are Coming Right thing thats been building in the background.
These are known cycles, and known threats. The Senior Council, and other senior wizards, have been expecting this shit for decades, if not centuries at this point, as has literally every other major faction. They have plans, they have contingencies.

This doesnt mean they are perfect, or that they dont fail, but the presumption on the part of our ~40 year old PoV character that everyone else is too incompetent or ignorant to have noticed the problem is something that too many readers internalize uncritically.

You are misremebering. We showed him internet forums, and he was quick to grasp the concept of online communication, but wasn't aware of it at the beginning.
You are misunderstanding me.

He let us show it to him. That doesnt mean he was previously unaware of their existence, just that he'd never used them himself because of the whole techbane thing.
My grandmother doesnt own or use a cellphone, but it doesnt mean she doesnt know they exist or what they do.

And that whole sequence allowed him and his escort to get a closer look at both our intentions and our capabilities.
Which is always useful when you are always gathering information.

====
He's head of Wizard BlackRock.
Butcher implies that he controls financial assets on the order of trillions of dollars, and outright states that economic warfare was a key modality by which they waged warfare against the Reds.

Just knowing your enemy required understanding things like this.
When Madrigal Raith was auctioning Dresden on Ebay in Proven Guilty and invited the White Council to bid on his head, their reaction wasnt "Whats Ebay?"
 
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I mean, to be clear, its currently 2007. The dot-com crash was almost a decade ago at this point.
Apple just announced the Iphone this January.

You'd have to be wildly incompetent to be ignorant of the Internet and computer technology while having pretensions at being a major economic and world power in the Dresdenverse magic scene.
Not being able to use it personally is no excuse, not when spirits, Fae and vampires all can.

Especially in this AU with the Thousand Hells, where there's entire Hells that are built around iterating on human technological innovation. No wizard who lives in Mikaboshi's area of influence in the Far East can afford ignorance of computers.
 
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Plan perfectly? No.
Plan for them? Certainly. It beggars belief that the wizards, whose very stock in trade is information and the judicious use of it, would be that ignorant of the very society that they all live in.

That goes well past plot contrivance and into farce.

The issues with growing populations didnt suddenly show up out of the blue.
World population has been on the rise since it crossed 1 billion around 1800. Wizards live for at least three hundred years. The current crop of adult wizards all saw it coming a century away. They wouldnt exist if they were incapable of being proactive.


Its like the whole The Stars Are Coming Right thing thats been building in the background.
These are known cycles, and known threats. The Senior Council, and other senior wizards, have been expecting this shit for decades, if not centuries at this point, as has literally every other major faction. They have plans, they have contingencies.

This doesnt mean they are perfect, or that they dont fail, but the presumption on the part of our ~40 year old PoV character that everyone else is too incompetent or ignorant to have noticed the problem is something that too many readers internalize uncritically.


You are misunderstanding me.

He let us show it to him. That doesnt mean he was previously unaware of their existence, just that he'd never used them himself because of the whole techbane thing.
My grandmother doesnt own or use a cellphone, but it doesnt mean she doesnt know they exist or what they do.

And that whole sequence allowed him and his escort to get a closer look at both our intentions and our capabilities.
Which is always useful when you are always gathering information.

====
He's head of Wizard BlackRock.
Butcher implies that he controls financial assets on the order of trillions of dollars, and outright states that economic warfare was a key modality by which they waged warfare against the Reds.

Just knowing your enemy required understanding things like this.
When Madrigal Raith was auctioning Dresden on Ebay in Proven Guilty and invited the White Council to bid on his head, their reaction wasnt "Whats Ebay?"
You are inventing things. Again. I see no point in further argument
 
That's true, no question about that. But the argument is about White Council being out of touch with modern society. And they are, badly.
This is weird considering while they don't understand these things they explicitly have people that do working with them to some degree. Not to mention for advancements that don't involve tech plenty of wizards do have a high understanding and aren't illiterate with advancements. Such as listens to winds who has multiple phds in medicine he understands modern medical advancements and shit like bacteria.
 
You are inventing things. Again. I see no point in further argument
Butcher repeatedly says OOC that the face the Merlin shows the world in general, and Dresden in particular, does not necessarily portray his intentions.The man does not wear his heart on his sleeve; he cannot afford to.

The Merlin controls nationstate/sovereign wealth fund levels of economic assets and power, in a world economy that entered the Information Revolution decades ago. I dont find it credible that he was ignorant of anything there, even if he hadnt used it personally before.

Especially since he was explicitly trying to manipulate us in that scene at the bar, with premeditated intent; we caught him doing so in a coordinated way with his entourage.
But fair enough; agree to disagree.

Moving on.
 
Arc 13 Interlude 6: Living on the Land
Living on the Land

11th of February 2007 A.D.

When picturing a Valkyrie's home something grand and gothic comes to mind, maybe one of those turn of the century sky scrapers before they figured out that you didn't really need to build them like castles to get people to live in them. What you did not imagine you'd find was a stone farmhouse with a garden out back, resting for the winter and even a duck pond. The ducks did not appreciate your approach, though to be fair to them you are in eagle shape and they do look tasty. All those subtle signals that ring like the lunch bell in the back of your head as a human, smell and hearing compressed down to just sight. Being a bird of prey is awesome.

But all good things must come to an end, for the moment at least. You land right before the door, changing back mid-flap to land with only the lightest waving of the arms and ring the doorbell.

Sigrun Gard opens the door dressed in a plaid shirt and work jeans that would not be out of place among her neighbors, not that she has that many neighbors out here. The closest town to here was sleepy Mt. Carmel along the Indiana border and it was not close.

"Molly..." she uses the name like you'd asked her, but trails off looking at you as one last feather floats from your head, though before it hits the ground it falls to golden dust.

"Kind of, literally, I'm of the kind of Molly Carpenter, but not all that I am." It was entertaining to Song of Perennial Hours Intrinsically Ascending and most of her other selves to workshop new ways to introduce themselves. "You have a lovely home here, I have to say I wasn't expecting it to be out so far from the city."

"I have my Ways of getting there faster than a car," came the answer.

Did... did the centuries old Valkyrie, just make a pun about magic roads? Knew she was cool. You laugh. "I know it's a bit late for you to show me the ropes like you promised last summer, but that doesn't mean I don't still have questions. I'm making this stuff as I go along between what Harry and Thomas know, what Lydia finds in her books and what I just know, but you've been around longer." Does the part about not mentioning a lady's age apply when the lady is over a thousand years old? you wonder belatedly. "You're harder to shock as well."

All the while Gard had just been leaning on the door-frame waiting for you to finish.

"Well then I have an offer for you Molly. Something's been moving my wardstones when I'm not home, I've found one too many lost hikers where they really shouldn't be. Help me track the culprit down and I'll answer questions about matters common and uncommon."

Used to dealing with the fey it's jarring hear such a loose offer, but of course she isn't bound to the letter of her words only to the spirit, the same way most people on the spooky side of town are, Old World manners as it were. And speaking of old world manners: "Be welcome into my home Song of Perennial Hours Intrinsically Ascending," the golden haired warrior said with a polite smile, motioning her inside. Of course Marcone's people would've gotten that from the Alphas somehow.

"To the gracious host good fortune and yes I'll be happy to help you."

It did not escape your notice that this is a task without even the merest whiff of crime about it. Not that you would accuse Gard to allowing some kind of gremlin to persist poking her just so she would have a request like this in her back pocket, but you would not put it past her. The Choosers of the Slain are skilled in strategy as much as at bloodshed.

OOC: No rolls visibile for this one since everything I rolled was for Gard and Marcone.
 
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Molly needs to have a word with the Alphas about information hygiene.

And possibly sweep their apartments for techno-magical bugs.
 
This seems like an issue with Dresden Files worldbuilding being wonky when you start digging into the parts that aren't directly part of the Protagonist's direct life/story. The White Council, having a considerable amount of really old dudes and being old itself, has a lot of economic capital and the soft power associated with that. It's implies that part of how it's fighting the Red Council is via economic warfare. At the same time the Council canonically is out of touch and in many cases literally cannot touch modern communications tech.

In general I don't see how economic warfare would really be possible if the White Council had zero knowledge or ability to interface with electronics. Even in the 2000's a loottttttt of stuff was going digital and NASDAQ pretty much got the global stock market digitized in the 1970's. So it seems like there must be some way for the WC to know about and influence electronic stuff even if there is a pretty harsh "can't actually use a computer" cap. IDK have interns handle it? Make people make printouts or handwritten copies of papers?
 
[X] It's not means to circumvent the Laws. It's means against the corruption brought by breaking the Laws. Murder is murder, no matter if done with a bullet or a fireball. Rape is rape, no matter if done with drugs or mind altering magic. All should be punished accordingly. But if this allows more leeway in punishment? If at least one in ten of those who kill in self-defense will be spared the sword? If just one more law-breaker feels genuine regret? It's worth it.
 
This seems like an issue with Dresden Files worldbuilding being wonky when you start digging into the parts that aren't directly part of the Protagonist's direct life/story. The White Council, having a considerable amount of really old dudes and being old itself, has a lot of economic capital and the soft power associated with that. It's implies that part of how it's fighting the Red Council is via economic warfare. At the same time the Council canonically is out of touch and in many cases literally cannot touch modern communications tech.

In general I don't see how economic warfare would really be possible if the White Council had zero knowledge or ability to interface with electronics. Even in the 2000's a loottttttt of stuff was going digital and NASDAQ pretty much got the global stock market digitized in the 1970's. So it seems like there must be some way for the WC to know about and influence electronic stuff even if there is a pretty harsh "can't actually use a computer" cap. IDK have interns handle it? Make people make printouts or handwritten copies of papers?
I mean, you hire people for that. You grab some minor talents who don't get wacked with the curse forcing isolation on wizardkind and pay them to do it for you. You stand 20 feet back with their desk in a circle of salt to keep your wizard mojo from fucking up their macbook and iphone while they move stocks and make phonecalls at your direction.

You don't even need to understand how it all works. You just need to understand how functionally it is used.
 
I mean, you hire people for that. You grab some minor talents who don't get wacked with the curse forcing isolation on wizardkind and pay them to do it for you. You stand 20 feet back with their desk in a circle of salt to keep your wizard mojo from fucking up their macbook and iphone while they move stocks and make phonecalls at your direction.

You don't even need to understand how it all works. You just need to understand how functionally it is used.

The Council does not do that, it's explicitly wizard only. You guys met someone who tried to become a member while lacking the talent, they laughed him out of the room.
 
The Council does not do that, it's explicitly wizard only. You guys met someone who tried to become a member while lacking the talent, they laughed him out of the room.
I would imagine the guy doing stock trades isn't a member, merely a hireling. There is a difference between being on the Council and working for the Council. The former implies standing and some degree of equality. The later doesn't.

They don't even absolutely need to be in the know. It would just be a stockbroker who had a strange rich old client who refused to do business over the phone but did everything through handwritten letters.
 
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I think the issue is that previous version of the bane (warts, and milk spoiling around the magically talented) was far less alienating than the current one. It was easier to circumvent - glamour, veils (magical and physical), makeup for warts, and spoiling stuff is less immediately limiting. Then you had a brief period where industrial revolution brought on sterilization processes, and later pasterization, and it got even less problematic. Then it switched to techbane, but the issue is that industrial and digital revolutions are different in scope and rate to anything previously seen. The techbane's effect on a wizard's life quickly, far too quickly, grew out of proportion and alienated them from rapidly changing society. Various inertias (political, economic, etc) keep them afloat, and still powerful, but the degree by which White Council is intrinsically separated from, say, stock market is growing very rapidly. Automated trading is entirely unacceptable to them, and digital trading in general requires intermediaries. There are all kinds of tools in development at the time of the game that wizards wouldn't be able to use.

It's just another breaking point in a long line of breaking points.
 
This seems like an issue with Dresden Files worldbuilding being wonky when you start digging into the parts that aren't directly part of the Protagonist's direct life/story. The White Council, having a considerable amount of really old dudes and being old itself, has a lot of economic capital and the soft power associated with that. It's implies that part of how it's fighting the Red Council is via economic warfare. At the same time the Council canonically is out of touch and in many cases literally cannot touch modern communications tech.

In general I don't see how economic warfare would really be possible if the White Council had zero knowledge or ability to interface with electronics. Even in the 2000's a loottttttt of stuff was going digital and NASDAQ pretty much got the global stock market digitized in the 1970's. So it seems like there must be some way for the WC to know about and influence electronic stuff even if there is a pretty harsh "can't actually use a computer" cap. IDK have interns handle it? Make people make printouts or handwritten copies of papers?
Essentially this.
It simply beggars belief that the White Council hasnt figured out workarounds for most of these things.

Especially since we know those workarounds exist; by the time you read The Law novella, you see that Dresden's Castle, which was allegedly designed by some longdead wizard and transplanted and reassembled by Marcone's people, can have things like commercial fridges and electric power even with Dresden living on the premises, and Bob is now able to access the Internet.

The idea that the White Council would not have done something about securing one of the fulcrums of their power projection just isnt credible.
The Council does not do that, it's explicitly wizard only. You guys met someone who tried to become a member while lacking the talent, they laughed him out of the room.
Bob has been working with wizards for six hundred years or more.
And here, the Merlin has a spirit running his home.
Wizards dont need mortal assistants.
 
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I would imagine the guy doing stock trades isn't a member, merely a hireling. There is a difference between being on the Council and working for the Council. The former implies standing and some degree of equality. The later doesn't.

They don't even absolutely need to be in the know. It would just be a stockbroker who had a strange rich old client who refused to do business over the phone but did everything through handwritten letters.

They also as far as we can see do not have human hirelings, at least not ones who know who they are. They can work through unknowing proxies, but that adds complexity, all the more so in this world. It might not be as connected as 2024... but it is still a lot more than say 1924.
 
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