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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Yog said:
The proving ground has an advantage of being mostly autonomous. The forge is useful, but only when used.
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I'm not really sure why that matters. Do we have plans to bring up an army of mortals I didn't here about or something? The vetting process is likely to take some time too since we shouldn't just hand out power willy nilly. Being forced to take our time with it would discourage boosting large amounts of people in a short time frame without proper vetting and we already have a literal army in our back pocket as is.

The Forge would allow for an invaluable new capability since regents will always be a bottleneck for our crafting ambitions while the Proving Ground would merely allow to do something we already can faster.
 
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[X] An Artifact Forge, reducing the cost of Splendors by ● to a minimum of ● (●●●●● to ●●●●, ●●●● to ●●● etc...)
 
Ivar said:
[X] A Proving Ground, allowing for the improvement of Mortal Talents, potentially even the Awakening of Essence
We can build another gate. We can find more materials... How do we make the option I vote for? I don't see any other easy way. Let's do it!
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From what I understand, actually getting suitable materials is not that simple. We've killed and harvested anything that could be a useful reagent, but we don't really have that much stuff banked for Splendor crafting.

Being able to craft a 2 Dot Splendor at the cost of a 1 Dot is a huge advantage for us, never mind the higher level stuff.

What good will Essence using mortals be for us in any reasonable timeframe?
 
[X] An Artifact Forge, reducing the cost of Splendors by ● to a minimum of ● (●●●●● to ●●●●, ●●●● to ●●● etc...)

I do want a gateway to sanctuary of some kind, but this seems like it will be too open. That said, we do need to get some level of not-Molly-based traversal so our people can actually trade effectively, gather information independently, and be able to deploy individuals more freely.
 
Goldfish said:
Yeah, the potential value for producing Splendors can't be overlooked.

Just look at what we've already been able to get recently by trading a TBD Splendor. That favor Nergui owed Odin which we traded for proved immensely valuable for our latest mission.

Money doesn't mean much in the supernatural community. Favors are the preferred currency, of course, but being able to craft genuine artifacts cheaply is almost as good.
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It will also be the most immediately useful since most people want the next turn to be focused on crafting the artifacts we are owed.
 
BoredMan said:
I'm not really sure why that matters. Do we have plans to bring up an army of mortals I didn't here about or something? The vetting process is likely to take some time too since we shouldn't just hand out power willy nilly. Being forced to take our time with it would discourage boosting large amounts of people in a short time frame without proper vetting and we already have a literal army in our back pocket as is.
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Your forgetting the 5 Billion loyal people ready, and able to go thou a proving ground. The bottleneck would be how fast Molly can get people into the proving Ground, not people to put into it.
 
Yog said:
The proving ground has an advantage of being mostly autonomous. The forge is useful, but only when used.
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I understand the action economy benefit, but we have been crafting enough lately, so that I doubt it would be left unused and just standing there for long, anytime soon.

Speaking of autonomous action economy...

Ivar said:
We can find more materials...
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We have no automatic way of harvesting ingredients right now. All our own materials are the result of limited adventuring loot.

Zoolimar said:
Not more Exalted. Heroic/Enlightened mortals. Basically it could turn people into wizards or at least close enough to full wizards that the difference would be mostly in flavor. And it doesn't care about your lineage and similar stuff like normal Dresdenverse magicians only your character as far as I understand.
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That sounds like a fun call to the White Council, instead of Von Trier. :V

But with the Artifact Forge, we could just craft empowering equipment to people, when necessary, only we could also use it for other stuff. Or just give them Sanctuary stuff/training.
 
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BoredMan said:
The vetting process is likely to take some time too since we shouldn't just hand out power willy nilly.
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As far as I understand the vetting process could be baked into the Proving Ground. Like a spiritual quest that tests the character of the one seeking the awakening. It doesn't mean it would be 100% right all the time or that people won't be able to do some bullshit with their power later but if Molly wanted total surety she would use mind control. It's much easier and more expedient.

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Iron Roby said:
That sounds like a fun call to the White Council, instead of Von Trier.
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How is that their problem? ^^
Essence techniques don't have the feedback loop like Dresdenverse magic.
 
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Earth-Destroyer said:
Your forgetting the 5 Billion loyal people ready, and able to go thou a proving ground. The bottleneck would be how fast Molly can get people into the proving Ground, not people to put into it.
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Doesn't change much tbh. Our biggest issue is using the assets and charms we already have. We have way stronger people to deploy but most of them aren't willing to risk permadeath. Could probably change that by taking a political turn in Molly's world along with tackling the Labyrinth.

Zoolimar said:
As far as I understand the vetting process could be baked into the Proving Ground. Like a spiritual quest that tests the character of the one seeking the awakening
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We could probably alter it to only boost people with desirable moral traits but it's hard to say what people will actually do with some real power when given it. I don't think boosting people left and right is sensible or even required. Having to be slower with it would encourage caution.
 
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[X] An Artifact Forge, reducing the cost of Splendors by ● to a minimum of ● (●●●●● to ●●●●, ●●●● to ●●● etc...)

This seems by far the most practical choice. No question Proving Ground could be awesome in empowering an army of supporters, but the Forge is more flexible and synergies with Molly's charms.
 
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I am… honestly torn.

Tentatively:
[X] An Artifact Forge, reducing the cost of Splendors by ● to a minimum of ● (●●●●● to ●●●●, ●●●● to ●●● etc...)
 
Zoolimar said:
Not more Exalted. Heroic/Enlightened mortals. Basically it could turn people into wizards or at least close enough to full wizards that the difference would be mostly in flavor. And it doesn't care about your lineage and similar stuff like normal Dresdenverse magicians only your character as far as I understand.

For example Karin, who is as magical as a rock, can learn to wield Essence if she goes through a Proving Ground.
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We don't actually know that, the shape and degree of the upgrade is vague. I doubt everyone who goes in will come out with the full upgrade either, or that going for it will be particularly safe as opposed to whatever lesser offerings it presents.

We've been warned that attempting to awaken mortals in this fashion has a high probability of destroying their soul. Presumably the proving ground lessens that but I don't think it'll completely take it away.
 
[X] A Proving Ground, allowing for the improvement of Mortal Talents, potentially even the Awakening of Essence

i wasnt sure between this and forge, but using the forge uses action points. it forces us to use ap if we want it to be worth it. The proving ground can be used by allies after an initial investment. yes we want to craft more,and im all for it, but this is the difference between active and passive income. And that decided it for me.
The forge is still good,ill be happy if it wins,just sligthly happier with proving ground.
 
Narasan said:
[X] A Proving Ground, allowing for the improvement of Mortal Talents, potentially even the Awakening of Essence

i wasnt sure between this and forge, but using the forge uses action points. it forces us to use ap if we want it to be worth it. The proving ground can be used by allies after an initial investment. yes we want to craft more,and im all for it, but this is the difference between active and passive income. And that decided it for me.
The forge is still good,ill be happy if it wins,just sligthly happier with proving ground.
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The Proving Grounds is guaranteed to eat up AP in all sorts of ways. We'll have so much stuff to deal with related to it that will keep cropping up.

The Forge isn't going to use any more AP than we would already spend on crafting. We're going to craft with or without the Forge, but with it we'll be able to craft better stuff more cheaply, and being able to trade some of the stuff we produce, or even take commissions, would probably allow us to save AP as a result of buying favors or assistance from powerful supernaturals.
 
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i dont think a proving ground,once built and reinforced with defences, will eat up much ap.
And even if it is attacked,the enemy would have probably( not certainly) attacked another base of ours.
Ap are the most powerful ressource in the quest,and spending them on better crafting is good,
but spending less of them for permanent upgrades to subordinates and allies is good too.

And i prefer the second.

Honestly,we dont know how much ap each cost, and we cant really predict wich options will get more attacks.

But we cant personally use the proving ground on us, but are the only one who can use the forge.

So i think proving grounds will cost less ap in the end.

I may be wrong,but there is no way to proof that without input from the qm.

And i am fine without further input.
 
@DragonParadox would artifact forge only be useful for Molly or would, for example, a permanent team of enginseers also be able to derive benefit from it? Or Harry trying to make anrw blasting rod?
 
Goldfish said:
The Proving Grounds is guaranteed to eat up AP in all sorts of ways.
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Narasan said:
So i think proving grounds will cost less ap in the end.
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Anyone we choose to boost needs to be someone we trust with power which requires that we spend time getting and vetting which would take AP. The only people we could shove in immediately- assuming the PG would have no risk of destroying/damaging a soul if the one inside doesn't prove themselves- would be the Five Court assets.
Yog said:
Or Harry trying to make anrw blasting rod
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Or protective coat since his last one was destroyed.
 
[X] An Artifact Forge, reducing the cost of Splendors by ● to a minimum of ● (●●●●● to ●●●●, ●●●● to ●●● etc...)

Hm, tentatively this, could be convinced otherwise, but if others can use it, I'm definitely voting for the forge.
 
[X] An Artifact Forge, reducing the cost of Splendors by ● to a minimum of ● (●●●●● to ●●●●, ●●●● to ●●● etc...)

BronzeTongue said:
Enlightened essence users aren't exalts, they're mortals who can use essence. Useful, but not even close to the same.
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Except for that infamous line in the Exalted 2e corebook which the rest of the series proceeded to ignore but never issue errata. :p
 
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Yog said:
@DragonParadox would artifact forge only be useful for Molly or would, for example, a permanent team of enginseers also be able to derive benefit from it? Or Harry trying to make anrw blasting rod?
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No on Engineseers, they do not need this kind of high-Essence environment. As for mortal magic it would be useful to a very skilled wizard enchanter like Ancient Mai, but not someone like Harry who only has little experience in the matter and is making due with cheat sheets from Bob. He is more likely to blow himself up if he tries to work with that much magic.
 
DragonParadox said:
No on Engineseers, they do not need this kind of high-Essence environment. As for mortal magic it would be useful to a very skilled wizard enchanter like Ancient Mai, but not someone like Harry who only has little experience in the matter and is making due with cheat sheets from Bob. He is more likely to blow himself up if he tries to work with that much magic.
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I would have assumed that at least some of our craftsmen could benefit from this, for stuff like exotic matter research.

Would Tiffany benefit here when doing fleshcrafting?
 
Yog said:
I would have assumed that at least some of our craftsmen could benefit from this, for stuff like exotic matter research.

Would Tiffany benefit here when doing fleshcrafting?
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  1. The ones who need some level of malleable environment already have it, this is overkill, like is like a isolated pocket of Middlemarches right on the cusp of being Pure Chaos.
  2. Yes, it would allow her to make radically larger modifications. She could walk in here with a tub of worms and walk out with a biologically viable griffon, where normally she would have to use some cats and eagles in the mix. (Mechanically flat -3 to difficulty that stacks with everything else)
 
DragonParadox said:
No on Engineseers, they do not need this kind of high-Essence environment. As for mortal magic it would be useful to a very skilled wizard enchanter like Ancient Mai, but not someone like Harry who only has little experience in the matter and is making due with cheat sheets from Bob. He is more likely to blow himself up if he tries to work with that much magic.
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So, not to be a 'rent-seeker' but uh... Can we rent usage of the forge to Ancient Mai (who I think is part of the white council ppl?)

[X] An Artifact Forge, reducing the cost of Splendors by ● to a minimum of ● (●●●●● to ●●●●, ●●●● to ●●● etc...)
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Ohhh, can we make a Splendor that makes the Artifact Forge safer to use for mortal wizards?

(I've no Idea what the limits on Splendors are, beside a vague 'can break/bend what are otherwise absolute rules').
I wonder if we can make a Splendor that can make it safe and easy for a skilled mortal wizard to make the most basic of potions (specifically super coffee and the simplest healing potion)
 
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