Settra was never good, but he was cool. Which sometimes gets confused in a fandom...
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
The Tomb Kings never were Settra, only Settra and nothing but Settra. Yes, he is the biggest king on the block, but there is more to Nehekhara and their history and goals then just Settra. Blaming him for Nagash and necromancy in particular is ridiculous. Yet they do so in the article.
[X] Plan A Morbifying Ore Deal
[X] Plan A Morbifying Ore Deal (ore deal not included)
I don't really mind which of the top plans is ahead, as there are things from both that I would like assuming the Father plans don't win, so I currently don't feel the need to approval vote for either.
[X] Plan A Morbifying Ore Deal (ore deal not included)
I don't really mind which of the top plans is ahead, as there are things from both that I would like assuming the Father plans don't win, so I currently don't feel the need to approval vote for either.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
They aren't at all wrong.
If Settra hadn't demanded immortality and the founding of the Mortuary Cult, Nahash could never have become the terror that he was.
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- North Wales
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Heck, if literacy was the primary stumbling block for the Ice court, they could have sent an extremely knowledgable but illiterate top-tier Witch, and a hired scribe to translate and make notes for her. That knocks their prestige a little, but probably less than how much Zlata has been dunked on by Niedzwenka over the months and years to date.
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- Space between realms
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It's wild that Magnum Pi killed an Everchosen WITHOUT Ghal Maraz.
Virgin Sigmar vs Chad Magnus
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- He/Him/His
I think a more interesting question is what other magical super weapons we could build for Vlag. If we want something mobile I can see the appeal of turning a Gyrocarriage into a battle altar, but I don't thing we can make something as powerful as the Eye of Gazul mobile. So what other spells could we weaponize on a similar scale to defend the pass? Can we do something with Warrior of Fog to give a significant information advantage to the defenders, or use Roiling Shadows to make all the shadows in the pass try to stab invaders? Maybe a large scale Cloud of Confusion to stop an army so it can be bombarded with siege weaponry?
The thing about Settra was always that he was a vanilla evil, that of imperialism and conquest, as opposed to the fantasy evil of the Chaos Gods. He's a Julius Caesar or Alexander the Great. He was never a good guy, but he was a guy - his sins were human and recognizable, not that of incomprehensible beings from beyond reality.
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- Australia
You are arguing with someone who wrote "I'm sick of the culture war and diversity is valueless to me." This should inform where he's coming from when he says he rejects Settra's characterisation as evil.
As one famous Australian sniper would say
"Professionals have standards." And settra set the standard for evil skeleton overlord.
Really. This is "sins of the fathers" argument to a what? Hundredth degree? Did Settra strip Nagash from his free will and forced him to become a monster that he did? Do you genuinely believe that a megalomaniac with nigh unmatched talent for magic would be anything other then a world level threat Nagash was? Sure, the exact flavour of magic he would use might be different, but at the end of the day Nagash would still be a monster in the world without Mortuary cult because it was not the cult stat pushed him into evil.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Without the Mortuary Cult I'm sure Nagash would still be an evil asshole, but he'd have been a mortal evil asshole.
(Frankly his life would have been substantially different- the custom of giving your first-born sons to the Mortuary Cult wouldn't be a thing, so even if he was still somehow the firstborn son of the King of Khemri- even ignoring the long list of other secondborn sons of Kings of Khemri that became Kings of Khemri before him that now wouldn't- he wouldn't have been taught magic)
Objection. I did not say "diversity is valueless". Nor did I reject the idea of Settra being evil.
What I did say is that putting a bit of diversity into what I percieve as a blatant cash grab does not warrant hype, and equally that while Settra is evil, claiming the rest of the faction he is a part of to be evil to the point of putting them on the same level as Chaos makes no sense to me because there is more to the faction then just Settra.
[X] Plan Pondering Orbs and Nuts (no Eike on KAU)
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
And it wasn't even the magics of the Mortuary Cult that allowed him to make Necromancy. They formed an ingredient of it, but the shipwrecked Dark Elves Nagash tortured the secrets of Dhar out of were a substantially bigger and more important one.
That assumes there would not be a magical tradition in Nehekhara without Mortuary cult. And that said tradition would not get Nagash (who for all his villany was a genuine prodigy in magic) into their ranks. Equally, it ignores the part where it took Nagash capturing and torturing a Druchii sorceress to learn Dhar based magic from her. That part is 100% independent from Settra, so should we blame Morathi for Nagash? Malekith? Aenarion? Or should we accept that primary bearer of blame for Nagash's deeds is Nagash?
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On the Old World "predestination" thing, I think it's kinda bull. Yes, GW have gone out of their way to make many many parallels between WHF and WH40K. But the obvious parallel to Archaon in 40K is Abaddon. And Abaddon hasn't broken the Imperium and ended the setting.
Or hasn't yet. It might be the ultimate plan for 40K, but I hope not. It sucks.
If WHF had done gangbusters financially, I find it hard to believe that the End Times would have happened as it did. I think it's true that "Rocks Fall Everyone Dies" was one of the ideas they had going into the 90s. Just not the one true predestined outcome.
But maybe that is, as the 4chan /tg/ dwellers like to call it, "copium" on my part.
Or hasn't yet. It might be the ultimate plan for 40K, but I hope not. It sucks.
If WHF had done gangbusters financially, I find it hard to believe that the End Times would have happened as it did. I think it's true that "Rocks Fall Everyone Dies" was one of the ideas they had going into the 90s. Just not the one true predestined outcome.
But maybe that is, as the 4chan /tg/ dwellers like to call it, "copium" on my part.
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Blackout
Fed By Comments
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The Horus Heresy of Warhammer Fantasy has always been The Sundering.
The leading paragon of the powerful but increasingly stagnant setting-spanning empire rebels and takes a large chunk of it with him, exposing deep-rooted divisions and weaknesses within the empire. While he is ultimately defeated it comes at a great loss, forever weakening the empire and setting the stage for everything to begin sliding towards destruction.
Of course, elves are not as marketable as space marines, so GW decided to pretend Praag is somehow the centre of the universe.
The leading paragon of the powerful but increasingly stagnant setting-spanning empire rebels and takes a large chunk of it with him, exposing deep-rooted divisions and weaknesses within the empire. While he is ultimately defeated it comes at a great loss, forever weakening the empire and setting the stage for everything to begin sliding towards destruction.
Of course, elves are not as marketable as space marines, so GW decided to pretend Praag is somehow the centre of the universe.
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Making fantasy grimdark just feels like a betrayal of what makes it enjoyable. Especially the era of Magnus the Pious, what is most certainly a golden age of the empire.
If chaos was ever inevitable, it was the inevitability of long attrition, rather than "archeon was destined to win all along." Warhammer fantasy is enjoyable because it was dark and chaos/skaven/green skins are all real possible threats, but they're beatable threats when the forces of order can put aside their very real hatreds for each other.
Honestly I wish they could just kinda ignore the end times as a thing, especially with it being many centuries in the future.
If chaos was ever inevitable, it was the inevitability of long attrition, rather than "archeon was destined to win all along." Warhammer fantasy is enjoyable because it was dark and chaos/skaven/green skins are all real possible threats, but they're beatable threats when the forces of order can put aside their very real hatreds for each other.
Honestly I wish they could just kinda ignore the end times as a thing, especially with it being many centuries in the future.
No need to speculate about whether Archaon's victory was inevitable, we already had Archaon's invasion of the Old World. It happened in 2004 with the Storm of Chaos, and Archaon was killed by Grimgor outside Middenheim. The entire 2nd Edition of WFRP is set in the aftermath of it. GW rolled back a decade of lore to give Archaon a mulligan with the End Times. That makes the entire idea that it was always predestined seem ridiculous to me.
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Right. The world being doomed to fail eventually is one thing, but the 13th being impossible to stop is bullshit.
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Part of it is that the thread (and to a slightly lesser extent Mathilde) knows that the Ice Court has plenty to show off, so Zlata being often lackluster is more annoying than a sign that the Court as a whole has little to offer.
We saw them clear an entire mountain pass for the expedition, we saw the kind of shit Liljana could do when hopped up on bearicane juice. Zlata is not our first impression of them- she's like fifth.
And then, of course, a lot of people are aware of what they pull in canon as well.
So the idea of them being in really bad shape didn't really stick... For our specific point of view. For those for whom this was their introduction to the Ice Court, it's a lot more serious of a blow.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I'm talking about cause-and-effect here. Chain of events.
Obviously Settra could not have predicted Nagash, but he was the one that was obsessed with living forever over his empire.
The magics of the Mortuary Cult were a rather important part of the 'shoulders of giants' that Nagash stood on. They'd already managed a form of immortality, Nagash used that to go further.