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Starfleet Design Bureau

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Iridium Flare said:
In the Stingray post, it was mentioned an arrowhead hull would help immensely with limiting the profile and minimizing the necessary hull polarization relays, so you'd think that would be the one, but the specific benefits listed here are just far more focused firepower. I believe that having a narrower profile and increased maneuverability would increase survivability, but a lot of the specifics are up in the air.
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I'd avoid extrapolating too much between similarly-configured but differently-sized hulls. In particular the idea that any design is going to have anything other than a very large number of hull polarization relays, or present anything other than a barn door of a target, at the mass we're contemplating, is dubious.
 
[X] Half-Saucer
[X] Arrowhead

I still want a combatant focused on smashing down individual warships with concentrated fire
 
Zimmerwald1915 said:
I'd avoid extrapolating too much between similarly-configured but differently-sized hulls. In particular the idea that any design is going to have anything other than a very large number of hull polarization relays, or present anything other than a barn door of a target, at the mass we're contemplating, is dubious.
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Fair point. Still, every little bit helps.
Not that my arguments are going to have much effect. At this point I'm just holding out for half-saucer. Ah, well. Mayhaps for a new LC or HC in the future, as others proposed.
 
[X] Half-Saucer
[X] Arrowhead

One thing I would like to remind people of, we dont need to mount ALL the weapons in the main hull. The Arrowhead designs rear arc can be covered by a cannon mounted on the ventral surface of the secondary hull.

And in the same way, we could mount forward torpedoes in the secondary as well. That's even how the Constitution did it, the torpedo pod mounted in the neck section.

Arrowheads big bonuses are focused forward fire and maneuvering, that doesn't necessarily mean that the aft and side arcs suffer.
 
The Arrowhead makes sense if we're making a utilitarian warship, as it gives a maximal concentration of fire with the phase cannons and reduces mass, and we can stick a front-facing torpedo launcher in the secondary hull. The Full Saucer is more expensive, but the space it provides means these ships can be converted to flagships and explorers after the war, which is handy given how ungodly expensive they're going to be. The Half-Saucer seems like a half-measure to me, not really committing to either version of what the ship should be.

[X] Arrowhead
[X] Full Saucer
 
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CuriousRaptor said:
Flyswatting for the nuke counter was what they were doing most of the conflict and given that the warbirds were on a collision course with Earth it's not out of lien to assume the Warbirds were only paying tangential attention to our fleet and focusing mostly on getting to earth to end it. Else they'd have not broken through in the fight, instead ofcusing on fleet supremacy first and then we'd be hosed.

The half saucer is likely to have better engines to keep on target more easily if nothing else, but frankly it's the compromise options and my second choice. It'd not have nearly as much focused firepower, but at least it'd have some legs under it compared to the likely incredibly slow and janky full saucer.

As for maneuverability, on the arrowhead that's far less of a concern as it's got immense firepower in everything but the rear arc. The Rear arc which should be covered by Escorts. The only way for an enemy to really harm it under a prolong time is to run doughnuts around the thing to stay in the rear arc and given this is explicitly designed to be the most mobile of the bunch that's unlikely. Saying it'll have the same issue as the stingray which has frankly a forward focused loadout ignoring side and rear arcs for the most part when this design explicitly covers the sides as well as the front and will be armed past the teeth as a matter of course is disingenuous.
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...What are you even talking about? You might want to take another look at the Stingray's stats and design, because it has a 50% coverage, with side and rear arcs covered.

You also still haven't shown that the arrowhead will be "explicitly designed to be the most mobile," just that it has room for engines in the back. Room that, explicitly, was described as not being solely for the engines.
 
Zimmerwald1915 said:
While it would be nice if your preferred option came with zero downsides and replicated the advantages of each other option presented, that's really not how these things work.
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Arrow's stated to be fore and side fire +, and is noted to have good room for engines and/or other extras. The aft arc's what suffers in that case.
 
Jensaarai said:
...What are you even talking about? You might want to take another look at the Stingray's stats and design, because it has a 50% coverage, with side and rear arcs covered.

You also still haven't shown that the arrowhead will be "explicitly designed to be the most mobile," just that it has room for engines in the back. Room that, explicitly, was described as not being solely for the engines.
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50% coverage with the vast majority of the firepower dedicated to the front. Coverage isn't the same as dedicated firepower. And inarguably the stingray has most of the firepower facing front to the point anything not in front of it is going to take a lot less damage even ignoring torpedoes which have a limited arc in the first place. Ergo while it has 50% coverage most of that coverage is rather thin unless it's at the forward arc. The Arrowhead is going to have concentrated coverage on three of the four facings, with the only one being thing being the rear.

As for the engines? Did you not read the update? Because it outright says it'll have room for the engines. Which the Full saucer doesn't comparatively which means it's slower. If the Engines are an afterthought on the full saucer but an at least strong secondary though on the arrowhead, it means they'll be better utilized in the arrowhead.
 
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Omake: The Time Police can't get all of us
  • Apocrypha
    • Foregone Conclusions, or If Full Saucer Ends Up Winning

    Henry Oliverson Junior, Lead Design Engineer of the United Earth Starfleet Design Burea's Project BULWARK, was exhausted. It had been a long day, with the various engineers he had to herd around constantly coming to near blows around the debate for the Dreadnought's frame. And while the heated discussions were unsurprising, given the impact the ship would have on the Mankind's first interstellar war, the near-equal split was unprecedented.

    Still, he thought, as he patted himself down, trying to find where he had put his apartment key, he had finally made a final decision. While he, like almost every starship enthusiast on the planet, had fallen in love with the NX, whether for the technological marvel it was at the time or the accomplishments the Enterprise had achieved, this was a new era, and a new fight. He only hope that the Full Saucer Advocates would take the news tomorrow with grace. Or at least, keep their grumbling down enough to get started on the actual design work.

    Flipping the light-switch by the entrance, he frowned, as his home remained unilluminated. Giving the switch a few more tries, more out of instinct than actual belief it would work, he repressed a sigh. Given that the streetlights and various neighboring apartments had been lit as he walked over, it was probably just the bulb going out. Trusting in his muscle memory, he tried to shuffle his way to the kitchen's switch.

    "Mr. Oliverson." The deep voice came somewhere to his right. Spinning around, alarmed, he barely could made out a humanoid figure sitting on his sofa before being blinded by a Ray of Light that hit him directly in the chest. As fell to the floor, a small part of his conscious mind that wasn't drowned out by shock and terror before reaching blissful unconscious, noted how much the beam resembled the new pulsed phase cannons prototype he had recently seen.
    *Chirp*

    "This is Daniels. The root cause of the Temporal Anomaly has been found, I'm resolving it now."
    .....
    "Source was a project lead at the SDB. The pre-fed United Earth one. Someone said something different than they did orginally, caused a new precedant that changed the design of our ships."
    .....
    "No, there shouldn't be any more problems. The subliminal hypotherapy has taken hold. He should awaken the next Morning having come to the correct decision. I'll be on hand to make sure things go according to plan, but I don't forsee any issues. Compared to the dealing with Na'kuhl and Nazis, this is a walk though the park."
    *Chirp*

    I also have an idea for another one based around the half-saucer, but I'll do it later.
     
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  • Apocrypha
    • Okay

    Adhoc vote count started by James Poopert on Nov 17, 2023 at 9:32 PM, finished with 305 posts and 116 votes.
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    I hope either a drastic switch happens and arrowhead wins or full saucer wins as half saucer is the worst of both worlds and the equivalent of a bad compromise between to grou a on something
     
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