[X] Acceptance, you always knew you were going to be a target and you are working on getting allies in your own way
-[X] Besides, if the world is going to change, then you have some ideas on how.
We have thought about it before. The way world works now isn't how we'd prefer it. When reminded that you can't turn the world back to an earlier age our thoughts were about how a new age is an option. So far our allies and us tend toward a next generation of existing power thing.
The Will came to us, prepared for fighting us and we noticed his presence indirectly and only then reacted, which resulted in him striking first and kidnapping our crew, if you remember.
We won because we called a lot of allies/mercs and because we were much tougher than even an Elder Akuma expected.
As for Nemesis, we learned of this almost incidentally, through Lara and then some Crown-questions.
The actual Walker also appeared as a total surprise to us.
We are not proactive, just very good at finishing dangerous situations.
Fair, but I was more looking at how we proactively gathered allies and took the initiative to attack the Will, even in its place of power, as opposed to letting it come to us. And what the Will did to prepare certainly showed that it did not want to underestimate us, but unfortunately couldn't keep up with Shounen-esque power escalation.
And with Nemesis, we did go after it and it's plans rather than let someone else deal with it or ignore it. Sure we found it be coincidence (if such a thing exists when the Exalted are involved) but we sure as heck didn't reveal its machinations to Mab by happenstance.
Which also led us to Lara, where we actively walked into her planned Purge night with a desire to be a part of the murder and mayhem. The Walker was a surprise, but its presence was very much a reaction to our presence rather than the inverse. Which resulted in it being unprepared for a fight and consequently dead.
Many of our successes have come from attacking our foes and seizing the initiative rather than forting up and letting them come to us.
Of course Broken Seeker has been around for months and we are only now getting around to dealing with it and we haven't so much as investigated the Order of the Blackened Denarius.
Keep in mind that Molly's build is pretty spread out.
A good bit of direct combat, some occult and ancient sorcery, some crafting, decent social stats, enough mundane skills and knowledges to be a functional young adult in 21century America and all that.
An Exalted specialising in something could easily overtake us in that thing, with far fewer XP invested than we have so far.
On the subject of reactivity vs. proactivity. We have been very reactive, and there are good reasons for that. If the apocalypse is starting within next several months we could switch gears by a lot (drop school, drop Rosie at least). The proactive things we have been doing are:
Order of Cauldron - we are poised to massively expand there next turn;
Rosie - we are about finished there. Maybe teach her some more dots of Oneiromancy
Jade Dogs and Last Station - we are nearing completion there, and then we'll probably massively expand into a next stage project (my idea - an underground circle around Chicago, acting as a warding line of truly Exalted proportions, with iron and depleted uranium and exalted craft)
Odin is right, and we have been stuck in perpetual AP hell boggled down by obligations, but hopefully we can start climbing out soonish.
On another matter. Soulfire is almost-Essence, but without the capacity for desruction. Hellfire seems to almost certainly be almost-Essence but without capacity for creation. Now, if we learn Soulfire from Odin, and teach it to Harry, while he still has Lash and Hellfire, would this result in him
a) Exploding
b) Obtaining proper Exalted Enlightenment and ability to use Essence
c) All of the above?
Also, it might be a step on the path of redeeming Lash, to have her housed in a soul that is using Fires of Creation.
The point is always whether the juice is worth the squeeze.
There's a balance to be met between useful enough to be given out and make a difference but not valuable enough to pull an unending series of top-tier interlopers.
The essence sourcing one definitely does under the new homebrew. I don't think the lower level is killing souls, but I don't buy the idea that an infernal can take a chunk out of your side and you just walk it off afterwards.
A reminder that Odin has an agenda, and not being a raging asshole doesn't mean he's automatically our friend.
Odin is a guy who looks after his own interests, and has landed on his feet through every major shakeup of the world so far. He's out to get his every bit at much as Mab is, and has about as many lines in the sand as she does.
I don't think that the warning he's giving us is an immediate term problem that changes anything we've talked about so far. Simply because it'd basically jump to the end of the quest while we're in many ways just getting started.
Which is also why I think we should slow down on acquiring more exalts. Any plan that revolves around handing out fantastic cosmic power to human beings and expecting them to get in line fundamentally misunderstands how people work.
We'll end up diving head first into a mess of deep exalted bullshit that will almost certainly consume all the plot space we have to work with.
Is it too much to ask that we actually play out the Dresden Files cross before we throw it out and start wrestling with Solars over how appropriate conquering the planet in the name of your own divine authority is?
Getting companions for a circle is a priority the thread is pushing, I vastly prefer this to the alternatives.
The essence sourcing one definitely does under the new homebrew. I don't think the lower level is killing souls, but I don't buy the idea that an infernal can take a chunk out of your side and you just walk it off afterwards.
A reminder that Odin has an agenda, and not being a raging asshole doesn't mean he's automatically our friend.
Odin is a guy who looks after his own interests, and has landed on his feet through every major shakeup of the world so far. He's out to get his every bit at much as Mab is, and has about as many lines in the sand as she does.
I don't think that the warning he's giving us is an immediate term problem that changes anything we've talked about so far. Simply because it'd basically jump to the end of the quest while we're in many ways just getting started.
Which is also why I think we should slow down on acquiring more exalts. Any plan that revolves around handing out fantastic cosmic power to human beings and expecting them to get in line fundamentally misunderstands how people work.
We'll end up diving head first into a mess of deep exalted bullshit that will almost certainly consume all the plot space we have to work with.
Is it too much to ask that we actually play out the Dresden Files cross before we throw it out and start wrestling with Solars over how appropriate conquering the planet in the name of your own divine authority is?
It is worth keeping in mind that a god may not think in human time scale yes, that said Molly does have a sense of the world changing all around her, one she feels closest to in places of Desolation, of the Sixth Age being born around her of the walls of the world cracking, she seems it in the soul of Nemesis and bears witness to it in the machinations of warlocks growing stronger by the day, she hears it in the underwater moaning of the Fomor's most recent victims. Something has to give.
On the topic of Daniel maybe we should just make him some really slick wheels like we promised him. Especially if he can make friends with some of the Jade Dogs. It would make it so that they can actually act as backup.
Jade Dogs and Last Station - we are nearing completion there, and then we'll probably massively expand into a next stage project (my idea - an underground circle around Chicago, acting as a warding line of truly Exalted proportions, with iron and depleted uranium and exalted craft)
I really want to know how much will It cost learning the path of Rune Magic from him. Maybe combined with soulfire to add extra succeses or increase its power will be able to match spheres Magic in some ways. Also because its the Magic which he is most known for, and the one for which he sacrificed himself and his eye.
COMMENTARY
1) Popped the tires but didnt get through the armor.
Better than a situation where it threw tracks instead; you can move on deflated/damaged tires if you planned for the possibility of battle damage, but if your tracks are off, you're immobilized. Honestly, if it takes an Odin-equivalent to get through the defenses on those IFVs, I think we're doing great for a six month old Infernal.
"The vehicle wasn't harmed," you challenge, even though you know why that was. Soulfire cannot destroy, that is what keeps it from being Essence though it can seemingly transform a set of wards from functional to non-functional if one has enough control
Soulfire is better at creating than destroying, but soulfire is great at destruction and supercharging both destructive and defensive spells. Its allegedly all that angels use. Dresden used it offensively against the naagloshii, against Ariana Ortega, against the Red King, against Imariel and Anduriel both. Even defensively against Mother Winter.
The wiki has multiple citations across multiple books:
In Small Favor, Harry Dresden first unknowingly uses soulfire against Namshiel in the Aquarium. It manifests itself as a massive silvery simulacrum of his hand.[2] Dresden is granted the use of soulfire by the ArchangelUriel.[1]
Bob informs Dresden that soulfire is powered by one's soul. It forms a matrix around which one builds a spell, giving it much more power. Given time, the soul can regenerate, unless it is used all up. If the soul is exhausted, however, the consequences are not pleasant.[1]
In Turn Coat, Harry Dresdenuses soulfire to boost his Sanctum invocation on Demonreach, allowing him to do battle with the spirit where he continues to use it to power up his spells.[3]
During his battle on Demonreach with Shagnasty the Naagloshii, he again uses soulfire to super-charge his supernatural garrote.[4] Though he defeats the spell by making a Circle of Power, Shagnasty seems impressed with Dresden's use of it, asking who gifted him with the "life fire". As the creature approaches to kill him, Dresden starts to prepare a Death curse backed with soulfire. He isn't sure if anyone has ever done so before, or what the consequences would be, but he is saved the trouble thanks to Toot-Toot's rescue.[5]
In Changes, Harry Dresdenunintentionally laces his fire spells with soulfire in the Red Court attack on his office building.[7] The effect this has on his body is very taxing; its use draws upon his own life energy and he worries he may kill himself by overusing it.[8]
Dresden laces fire magic with soulfire again in the Nevernever garden on the other side of his apartment.[9] He pours as much of it as possible into a spell used in defense of Mouse[10] and it causes him to eventually pass out.[11]
Dresden uses soulfire to create realistic illusions of his companions. This use results in illusions of far greater detail than has been seen before. According to Dresden, though he uses it for his destructive magic, it really shines when used to create things.[6]
He uses soulfire in the attack on Chichén Itzá, firstly during his callout of Arianna Ortega to cast his body in a silvery light,[12] and again during his duel with Ortega, lacing both his force and fire spells with it.[13] He continues to use it throughout the attack, destroying one Jaguar Warrior and then using as much as he can in an attack against the Red King.[14]
n Cold Days, Harry Dresdeninfuses his first fire-based spell since returning from the dead with some soulfire. Combined with his new power as the Winter Knight the spell becomes a blue-white flame burning incredibly hot.[15]He also uses it to infuse his raw will when attempting to break free of Mother Winter's will.Dresden claims that, according to Bob, soulfire is one of the fundamental forces of the universe and the original power of creation. It is accessed by slicing off a bit of your soul and converting it to something else. However, Dresden believes that is not quite accurate. It interacts with souls in a way nobody understands. It converts the user's entire being and identity into energy.[16]
Dresden infuses his mental defenses against He Who Walks Before with soulfire, allowing him to break free of the assault.[17]
In Skin Game, Harry Dresden infuses his fuego spell with the "Silver white fire of Creation itself", creating a basketball sized comet of soulfire he throws into the face of Polonius Lartessa against her Fallen, Imariel.[18]
Inside Hades' Vault, Nicodemus Archleone attacks Dresden, unleashing Anduriel as a vast darkness slamming down upon him. Dresden counters using a soulfire-infused light spell, which keeps Anduriel at bay.[19]Hannah Ascher then attacks Dresden using Hellfire which he deflects by adding soulfire to a cyclone spell.[20]
3) Knowledge is power.
If Odin is offering to teach Soulfire, assuming it can be taught, its probably worth the undoubtedly steep asking price, especially if we can subsequently teach it to others like Lydia or even Dresden. This is the guy who trained the first Merlin after all, so his knowledge, his expertise, is valuable. And we do have common goals with regards to keeping reality in one piece.
But its worth remembering that he does have his own agenda and goals, which arent necessarily identical to our own.
And his own enemies.
Still, canon Soulfire supercharges wizardry.
If it also supercharges Path magics, there's a lot of things we can use it for, starting with Divination and Conveyance. Would help explain how Odin is so well-informed if his scrying spells are used with Soulfire.
4) I kinda find the idea of Mab actively doing anything that can be construed as singing someone's praises as hilarious.
On the other hand, if she's doing this, it means our profile is rising drastically in the short term as more than just a regional North American thing.
5) While Odin has a point about building a party?
It does suggest that he isnt seeing Molly's Hell coming. Which says that while he knows more than he's saying, he doesnt know as much as he would like.
Introduction 12 sux on 17 dice
Improving Circles 12 sux on 21 dice
Soulfire Identification 15 sux on 18 dice
That Dont Impress Me Much Molly rolls 7 sux on 17 dice vs Odin's 10 sux on 15 dice.
@DragonParadox
QUESTION
What are the odds of using the vehicle that got hit with a soulfire attack as a focus for a Crown question about learning soulfire unaided? Im not saying we should, because it goes against the spirit of our bargaining, and risks exposing that capability unnecessarily. Im just curious if we could.
It is worth keeping in mind that a god may not think in human time scale yes, that said Molly does have a sense of the world changing all around her, one she feels closest to in places of Desolation, of the Sixth Age being born around her of the walls of the world cracking, she seems it in the soul of Nemesis and bears witness to it in the machinations of warlocks growing stronger by the day, she hears it in the underwater moaning of the Fomor's most recent victims. Something has to give.
That's fair, and makes sense. I do think we should be able to explore that without pressing the exalted button immediately though.
Or I hope so anyway. I don't really see how we could balance engaging with DF stuff as it stands with the sort of consequences of exalts running around; the power scaling alone would make most people irrelevant, and the shenanigans would probably eat our time to the point that stuff like the paranet would never get any space.
4) I kinda find the idea of Mab actively doing anything that can be construed as singing someone's praises as hilarious.
On the other hand, if she's doing this, it means our profile is rising drastically in the short term as more than just a regional North American thing.
I really want to know how much will It cost learning the path of Rune Magic from him. Maybe combined with soulfire to add extra succeses or increase its power will be able to match spheres Magic in some ways. Also because its the Magic which he is most known for, and the one for which he sacrificed himself and his eye.
[X] Acceptance, you always knew you were going to be a target and you are working on getting allies in your own way
-[X] Besides, if the world is going to change, then you have some ideas on how.
[X] Acceptance, you always knew you were going to be a target and you are working on getting allies in your own way
-[X] Besides, if the world is going to change, then you have some ideas on how.
This is no surprise to us. This is just confirmation. We may bargain with some, others we would do right by for free such as with Mab or Lara because in the moment their good is ours, but very few we touch stay in it for the quid pro quo. We are a river and people want to be carried in our currents.
That's fair, and makes sense. I do think we should be able to explore that without pressing the exalted button immediately though.
Or I hope so anyway. I don't really see how we could balance engaging with DF stuff as it stands with the sort of consequences of exalts running around; the power scaling alone would make most people irrelevant, and the shenanigans would probably eat our time to the point that stuff like the paranet would never get any space.
If someone seems to have been rendered irrelevant by Exalted power-scaling, they were probably already irrelevant, it just wasn't obvious cause they weren't involved enough. From what I've seen in the Dresden Files all the actually relevant people are already at Exalted power levels.
[X] Acceptance, you always knew you were going to be a target and you are working on getting allies in your own way
-[X] And excitement. The battles to come might be terrible indeed, but they were always coming, the forces arrayed against Creation lurking Outside. If you get a chance to make new lifelong friends and to ensure that a new dawn comes? You can live with that.
If someone seems to have been rendered irrelevant by Exalted power-scaling, they were probably already irrelevant, it just wasn't obvious cause they weren't involved enough. From what I've seen in the Dresden Files all the actually relevant people are already at Exalted power levels.
It's more that everyone in Dresden Files even the most powerful stuff tend to be glass canons of one type or another. Sure mc joe average can't sling spells, lift a car, shapeshift like a wizard or fey such, but if they have enough basic knowledge just about everything in DF goes down to the right sort of bullets. It might not be a fair fight for mc joe average but at least they always have a shot.
Exalted don't have though sorts of weak points or mortal frailties.
Of course this argument isn't based on most characters actually being irrelevant just that we consider the risk of them dying greater then the help that they could provide. We know lots of people who can help in our fights, but if they have a 20% (picked out of ass) chance of dying we would rather go it without them even if they would be helpful.
If someone seems to have been rendered irrelevant by Exalted power-scaling, they were probably already irrelevant, it just wasn't obvious cause they weren't involved enough. From what I've seen in the Dresden Files all the actually relevant people are already at Exalted power levels.
[X] Acceptance, you always knew you were going to be a target and you are working on getting allies in your own way
-[X] And excitement. The battles to come might be terrible indeed, but they were always coming, the forces arrayed against Creation lurking Outside. If you get a chance to make new lifelong friends and to ensure that a new dawn comes? You can live with that.
They really aren't, though that in part depends what you mean by relevant. There's a lot of interesting stuff that happens in the supernatural world as a whole that suddenly becomes completely irrelevant once we're dealing with exalts all the time.
There's also the matter of plot focus.
Once we start fighting the war for the sixth age in this manner I have a hard time seeing how we balance it with anything else.
White council vampire war stuff? Moderating the white court? Improving the status quo of mortals as a talkative food source?
All that stuff and many other interesting plot threads seem like they'd instantly take a back seat to some other asshole with the crown of eyes taking pot shots at us, a pair of solars in the balkans arguing about who precisely this bit of land belongs to, or actually corralling whoever we get to talk to us into some useful action once it starts.
At that point DF is basically just set dressing that we drive the plot over on the way to an age of legends grade exalted brawl.
It's more that everyone in Dresden Files even the most powerful stuff tend to be glass canons of one type or another. Sure mc joe average can't sling spells, lift a car, shapeshift like a wizard or fey such, but if they have enough basic knowledge just about everything in DF goes down to the right sort of bullets. It might not be a fair fight for mc joe average but at least they always have a shot.
Exalted don't have though sorts of weak points or mortal frailties.
Of course this argument isn't based on most characters actually being irrelevant just that we consider the risk of them dying greater then the help that they could provide. We know lots of people who can help in our fights, but if they have a 20% (picked out of ass) chance of dying we would rather go it without them even if they would be helpful.
Technically Exalted do have a weakness. Large number of mooks aiming to mote-tap them. It's something DP has neglected to send against us yet, but it's there.
They really aren't, though that in part depends what you mean by relevant. There's a lot of interesting stuff that happens in the supernatural world as a whole that suddenly becomes completely irrelevant once we're dealing with exalts all the time.
There's also the matter of plot focus.
Once we start fighting the war for the sixth age in this manner I have a hard time seeing how we balance it with anything else.
White council vampire war stuff? Moderating the white court? Improving the status quo of mortals as a talkative food source?
All that stuff and many other interesting plot threads seem like they'd instantly take a back seat to some other asshole with the crown of eyes taking pot shots at us, a pair of solars in the balkans arguing about who precisely this bit of land belongs to, or actually corralling whoever we get to talk to us into some useful action once it starts.
At that point DF is basically just set dressing that we drive the plot over on the way to an age of legends grade exalted brawl.
I don't think it would be quite that bad. There are plenty of Exalted-grade actors in DF, and the knowledge that more like us exist would cause all the factions to go recruiting. Some of them can be pretty convincing too. Exalts would be a new factor in the existing power structure, but not overwrite it.
Plus, as mentioned above, the more horde-type enemies (such as the Red Court) can prove a threat to Exalts, especially if they have no compunctions about burning an arbitrary number of mind-controlled mortals to exhaust them both physically and emotionally. I doubt they'll lose relevance anytime soon.
Technically Exalted do have a weakness. Large number of mooks aiming to mote-tap them. It's something DP has neglected to send against us yet, but it's there.
That might be the case in general, but our soak and speed are currently at the level that we can beat any group of mooks we can't outrun. And if we can out run then we can quickly recover our motes.
