Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Alratan · Jul 25, 2023

Zaratustra said:
Not very interested in the Mathilde Rider, may have a few use in some rare edge cases, but could always get the result with other spell and loses on the primary use most of the time, better to shelve the idea for if we grab a handmaiden, that sound like it would fit them better.

What other spell can get a solid autonomous clone of Mathilde that can hit people with a sword?

This is something that would be useful as a decoy every time we're on a battle field and every time we've had to exfiltrate ourselves in a loud way. These have happened multiple times.

Scenarios where Mathilde could I use a Mathilde Rider have relatively been very common. It's very much not a rare edge case.

A handmaiden would be much, much worse at pretending to be Mathilde than a Rider:

Making the Rider look like Mathidle also does not impact its primary use at all. A Rider Mathidle would be just as good a meat shield or fighter as one that was a different shape.

Talon TigerDino · Jul 25, 2023

TotallyNotEvil said:
Nay, the actual form it takes does have tangible benefits and downsides.

But the passage I was responding to was specifically comparing mounted wizard and mounted knight forms, where there is no functional difference because they are both humanoids on horses bound by ulgu. Therefore, horse = horse.

Tasoli · Jul 25, 2023

Karugus said:
I suppose we could try and lean into the multiple heads and make a shadowy chimera, they're definitely associated with Chaos-

There is always Xuanwu which is a Snake Tailed turtle from far east. If you want full tankiness it might be something to think about.

Alratan · Jul 25, 2023

Karugus said:
Sadly, if we're just interested in having a wizard killing machine, demigryph knight probably makes the most sense. Spider might be able to crawl across different surfaces, but given its size and the fact I'm not sure the apparition has to spawn next to her…. Idk that actually is.

Th best template for a wizard killing machine is probably Mathilde on a shadow stead, as she's the kill riser thing by the list of options by far…

If shape determines lethality, she's the most lethal shape.

More seriously; in terms of utility for Mathilde, she's great at headhunting hard targets. What has been a problem for her is being mobbed by large numbers of enemies. A warhorse mounted rider would probably be best at dealing with that.

Karugus · Jul 25, 2023

Tasoli said:
There is always Xuanwu which is a Snake Tailed turtle from far east. If you want full tankiness it might be something to think about.

Would Mathilde have literally any context for a Xuanwu? Chimera are at least something the Empire is familiar with even if Mathilde's never seen one.

Edit: it's possible the wiki is embellishing, but it definitely goes out of the way to state only someone blessed by chaos could hope to command or bind one… so probably much worse optics than 'just a particular nasty kind of mutant beast' like I was assuming

Rafin · Jul 25, 2023

Semi-Autogyro said:
I'd rather have the rider look like a fog/mist/smoke/etc shrouded knight atop an plate-barded destrier rather than a generic grey wizard. There's a shock value to heavy calvary and I feel that if it looks more like mundane calvary enemy casters won't automatically be thinking of counterspelling it unlike a wizard rider.

If you want it to look as non-magical as possible so as to not attract dispelling then the knight shouldn't be shrouded at all.

Otherwise I propose that we take the best of both worlds and have the fake Grey Wizard ride a big fat warhorse or Demigryph, or maybe an "Ulgu" Warhorse/Demigryph (i.e. what Shadowsteed would look like if it weren't an unarmored horsey).

agumentic said:
If we go for that, I vote we add the hat. At that point, it's going to be just a reference to Mathilde rather than something that looks like her, which I think is harmless enough.

Nah. Our hat is too distinct and not something a Grey Wizard would wear. Hell, I'd go with no hat at all, since any hat can have "fallen off in battle".

Derkan · Jul 25, 2023

The last thing that Red Rider saw:

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=teYFeGD6Ilc

Tasoli · Jul 25, 2023

Derkan said:
The last thing that Red Rider saw:

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=teYFeGD6Ilc

👎
Gm already posted the better version of that video.

Rafin · Jul 25, 2023

I'll likely end up approval voting a whole lot of options, but for now [ ] [RIDER] Mist-shrouded Grey Wizard on a "Shadow-Demigryph" seems like the perfect compromise vote.

Mopman43 · Jul 25, 2023

Derkan said:
The last thing that Red Rider saw:

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=teYFeGD6Ilc

Boney already made the joke.

Somic · Jul 25, 2023

Tasoli said:
👎
Gm already posted the better version of that video.

There can never be enough meme video responses!

BeepSmile · Jul 25, 2023

Boney said:
With a lot of patience and care it does seem like it might be plausibly possible to feel out the shape and nature of the runes within Bok with the auditory version, though it'd be a lot harder and a lot more work.

Darn. that's no good then.
What with Kragg being infamously impatient and sloppy in his work.

dpara · Jul 25, 2023

um, am I missing something, but Mathilde could learn to summon an Ulgu Dragon?

How is Ulgu Dragon not the best option? xD

Eisenhelm · Jul 25, 2023

Boney said:
He'd likely expected his flying punch to knock the Rider off his steed, and you had too when you'd given your assent to this approach. But what actually happens is that both of them go tumbling across the cobbles in an awkward tangle of limbs, sending sparks and smoke flying in all directions.

you say punch, but i can only imagine this as johann doing a dropkick on the rider.

agumentic · Jul 25, 2023

"Mundane knight with Mathilde's heraldry" is a pretty appealing motion. It still keeps a reference to her, but nothing explicit and it adds a layer of obfuscation.

SpaceSloth · Jul 25, 2023

So, about the seviroscopes.
Could we do one version and hire someone from colleges to do the other one ? Or would this be breaking the ap economy too much?

Derpmind · Jul 25, 2023

dpara said:
um, am I missing something, but Mathilde could learn to summon an Ulgu Dragon?

How is Ulgu Dragon not the best option? xD

It'll be the size of a horse, and won't be able to fly or do other dragon things.

Zaratustra · Jul 25, 2023

Alratan said:
What other spell can get a solid autonomous clone of Mathilde that can hit people with a sword?

Top of my head, Doppelganger can make anything carrying a sword effectively a copy of her.

Alratan said:
Scenarios where Mathilde could I use a Mathilde Rider have relatively been very common. It's very much not a rare edge case.

You would think so, but I belive we actualy only fought on horseback twice and for a short time, and situations where it would be usefull are a subset of that, so is realy an edge case.

Also while I am here I would like to say I don't think shaping the rider as a muderkitty to fight hero units is a good use, we just saw how well it handles that, and honestly Mathilde herself is a much better hero unit killer than it could ever hope to be, so the horse/tank buit suports us better.

Rafin · Jul 25, 2023

dpara said:
um, am I missing something, but Mathilde could learn to summon an Ulgu Dragon?

How is Ulgu Dragon not the best option? xD

The things that make Ulgu Dragon the best option are not quite captured by something that is horse-sized, has no breath weapon and can not fly or do magic.

GrimTheMad · Jul 25, 2023

BeepSmile said:
Darn. that's no good then.
What with Kragg being infamously impatient and sloppy in his work.

The problem isn't that he wouldn't be able to do it, just that it might take so long the results would be outside the scope of this quest.

Talon TigerDino · Jul 25, 2023

dpara said:
um, am I missing something, but Mathilde could learn to summon an Ulgu Dragon?

How is Ulgu Dragon not the best option? xD

Because it would be an insult to actual dragons everywhere; a pathetic, flightless, breathless pony of a lizard merely aping the grandeur of the draconic.

Nerdasaurus Rex · Jul 25, 2023

[ ] [RIDER] Knight
-[ ] Mathilde's Heraldry

Is probably the option I'm going to go for then. It's a fantastic call back to the start of the quest, and lets it look like Mathilde has an entire order of knights who turn up to random battles all over the Empire.

Rafin · Jul 25, 2023

I haven't seen anyone mention anything about how Gehenna's Golden Hounds summons multiple creatures. Two according to the wiki, several more (in a slightly flavored animation for a boring vortex spell) in Total War. I wonder what we end up deciding to be the perfect amount for Mathilde herself.

lancelot · Jul 25, 2023

Boney said:
[ ] Other (write in)

Is this something we could do?
[X] Griffin

BeepSmile · Jul 25, 2023

GrimTheMad said:
The problem isn't that he wouldn't be able to do it, just that it might take so long the results would be outside the scope of this quest.

That's a reasonable point, honestly I only posted that because I wanted to post a silly thing.

I'm 100% in favour of picking visual now and doing auditory as a WEB-MAT action at some point in the next few turns.

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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