Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)

I am very intrigued by what happened with Kalaran. Did Grok just decide to not pursue the discussion and let him go without speaking to Kal, or even to Lady Prestor that her chosen retainer is (gasp!) a black dragon? Hypothetically, the Horde has history of good working relationship with the black dragons, but all those leaders that worked with them are either dead or undead. What is Grok's opinion of black dragons?
Also
and the Stormwind continent had been badly struck, a tear-eyed Lady Prestor assuming the Regency after Bolvar's fall.
@FractiousDay, are you one of Onyxia/Bolvar shippers (I won't judge, I kinda like it too), or was she just being a particularly good actress? :D
 
I am very intrigued by what happened with Kalaran. Did Grok just decide to not pursue the discussion and let him go without speaking to Kal, or even to Lady Prestor that her chosen retainer is (gasp!) a black dragon? Hypothetically, the Horde has history of good working relationship with the black dragons, but all those leaders that worked with them are either dead or undead. What is Grok's opinion of black dragons?
Also

@FractiousDay, are you one of Onyxia/Bolvar shippers (I won't judge, I kinda like it too), or was she just being a particularly good actress? :D
I wouldn't call it good the black dragon flight allied with nurzhels hoarde so this version of the hoarde wouldn't cause nurzhel hoarde spilt with rends versions taking the dragons (not sure how much the warsong interacted with them but I don't think doomhammer had any relations with black dragons)
edit: and maybe the dragonmaw clan
 
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I wouldn't call it good the black dragon flight allied with nurzhels hoarde so this version of the hoarde wouldn't cause nurzhel hoarde spilt with rends versions taking the dragons (not sure how much the warsong interacted with them but I don't think doomhammer had any relations with black dragons)
Ner'zhul's Horde included Grom and the Warsong, and what I meant is, in the Dark Portal crisis the black dragons had a partnership with the Horde (unlike the reds that were forced into it), and, to my knowledge, did not betray said partnership. Grom is dead, but maybe some Warsong veterans could have relatively positive impression of black dragons.
 
I am very intrigued by what happened with Kalaran. Did Grok just decide to not pursue the discussion and let him go without speaking to Kal, or even to Lady Prestor that her chosen retainer is (gasp!) a black dragon?
It's tricky. Firstly, everyone is very busy, there's lots of wounded to attend to, and Grok would find it difficult to force a confrontation unless he literally fought his way into Prestor's tent, which is obviously not a thing he would do. Similarly, he's aware that if he does force it, all you end up with is an angry dragon in the middle of your camp, so not ideal.

In terms of the surprise, Grok is indeed moderately concerned, but to him it's not that problematic currently. The Blacks aren't allied with the Scourge or Legion, his two main enemies, so the fact that one has infiltrated the Stormwind delegation sort of isn't his problem. There's no indication that Prestor is indeed Onyxia so he doesn't make the connection. He would bring it up, but obviously Onyxia and Kalaran know this, so they're avoiding it. Prestor can just say she's in mourning or something and doesn't want visitors, whic his a pretty ironclad defence.
are you one of Onyxia/Bolvar shippers (I won't judge, I kinda like it too), or was she just being a particularly good actress? :D
In this case it's sort of irrelevant. Prestor is high in the Stormwind political scene, and is using Bolvar's death to gather any of his followers she can. Therefore she must appear in mourning, or spread a rumour that they loved each other but couldn't marry because of the regency or something similar. I've not given it specific thought regarding whether that's actually true, because basically I don't give outside perspcetives in this quest (unlike my others). There's a degree of unreliable narrator there basically.

I will also note though that it's quite amusing as the very first fanfic I read when I was like 14 was a BolvarxOnyxia one. I don't remember it being very good and indeed recall being confused that nothing plot wise was actually happening. Then I looked for more and remember Frostblood, a very old Jaina!LichKing one, which while a little rough was quite good. I think fairly soon after that I wrote my first fic, which was a warcraft/LotR cross, which in fact had the first iteration of Vark as a character, and who I've recycled in this fic.
Hypothetically, the Horde has history of good working relationship with the black dragons, but all those leaders that worked with them are either dead or undead. What is Grok's opinion of black dragons?

I wouldn't call it good the black dragon flight allied
Charting the Horde's interactions, for my own reference as much as anything else. The main points are:

1. Deathwing directs the Dragonmaw to the Dragon Soul to capture Alexstraza. This is largly beneficial for the Orcs in the Second War, though eventually this control is broken.
2. The Blacks ally with the Horde, with Deathwing desiring Outland as a base for his eggs. This alliance generally seems pretty strong, though it has the undertone of the Blacks seeking to control the orcs.
3. The Blacks continue their alliance after the Third War in the currnet timeline, contuing the Blacks habits of attempting to control the Orcs.

Grok will be aware of most of these points, and when questioning Kalaran in a later chapter will be aware of the last. Grok is generally fairly well educated (for an Orc) and is familiar with diplomatic and military history. As such, I think he'd have a fairly positive view of the Blacks actually. He's not aware of their manipulations, and if he was he'd be annoyed.
 
Kinda makes me want to see Grok take the place of Grom's son when the bronze dragon does their deus ex machina.
It's tricky. Firstly, everyone is very busy, there's lots of wounded to attend to, and Grok would find it difficult to force a confrontation unless he literally fought his way into Prestor's tent, which is obviously not a thing he would do. Similarly, he's aware that if he does force it, all you end up with is an angry dragon in the middle of your camp, so not ideal.

In terms of the surprise, Grok is indeed moderately concerned, but to him it's not that problematic currently. The Blacks aren't allied with the Scourge or Legion, his two main enemies, so the fact that one has infiltrated the Stormwind delegation sort of isn't his problem. There's no indication that Prestor is indeed Onyxia so he doesn't make the connection. He would bring it up, but obviously Onyxia and Kalaran know this, so they're avoiding it. Prestor can just say she's in mourning or something and doesn't want visitors, whic his a pretty ironclad defence.

In this case it's sort of irrelevant. Prestor is high in the Stormwind political scene, and is using Bolvar's death to gather any of his followers she can. Therefore she must appear in mourning, or spread a rumour that they loved each other but couldn't marry because of the regency or something similar. I've not given it specific thought regarding whether that's actually true, because basically I don't give outside perspcetives in this quest (unlike my others). There's a degree of unreliable narrator there basically.

I will also note though that it's quite amusing as the very first fanfic I read when I was like 14 was a BolvarxOnyxia one. I don't remember it being very good and indeed recall being confused that nothing plot wise was actually happening. Then I looked for more and remember Frostblood, a very old Jaina!LichKing one, which while a little rough was quite good. I think fairly soon after that I wrote my first fic, which was a warcraft/LotR cross, which in fact had the first iteration of Vark as a character, and who I've recycled in this fic.



Charting the Horde's interactions, for my own reference as much as anything else. The main points are:

1. Deathwing directs the Dragonmaw to the Dragon Soul to capture Alexstraza. This is largly beneficial for the Orcs in the Second War, though eventually this control is broken.
2. The Blacks ally with the Horde, with Deathwing desiring Outland as a base for his eggs. This alliance generally seems pretty strong, though it has the undertone of the Blacks seeking to control the orcs.
3. The Blacks continue their alliance after the Third War in the currnet timeline, contuing the Blacks habits of attempting to control the Orcs.

Grok will be aware of most of these points, and when questioning Kalaran in a later chapter will be aware of the last. Grok is generally fairly well educated (for an Orc) and is familiar with diplomatic and military history. As such, I think he'd have a fairly positive view of the Blacks actually. He's not aware of their manipulations, and if he was he'd be annoyed.
I keep thinking of Imrik.


View: https://youtu.be/J4DVyt8yuFA
 
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Alterac 1
Alterac 1

When the situation had calmed enough that you were no longer deploying every day, you had chance to speak with Mirador.

The old paladin came to your little corner of the camp, halfway between the Plaguewood and the Crusade's supply base in Anderhol while you were receiving the rites.

In memory of Ishi you had commanded Sesk to give you the ancient marks. There wasn't time to tattoo them, but Sesk had mixed a viscous alchemic paste that would work as hard-wearing paint, dying your skin as Ishi's had, though only lasting a season with each application.

Sesk worked at you, drawing lines at first, then rubbing the paste in roughly afterward as you sat there. Some had gathered to watch the ritual, for as he applied it Sesk spoke chants and litanies.

In truth, your reputation had only grown after the battle. All knew now that you had bested Alexandros Mograine in single combat, as well as taking a significant part in slaying many of the others, and the first if not the second achievement had won you plaudits. Mograine had generally been acknowledged as one of the finest swordsmen in Lordaeron and your victory had been well spoken of, including among your Orcs.

But among your own folk tales grew of your spiritual prowess too. Stories had spread of how you'd walked the camp infirmaries healing wounds, and while throwing fire was a fairly common skill among shaman, healing was rarer. More unique still, you had gathered fiery spirits with the ancient Flamecaller's rites in the aftermath and grand cremations of the dead. The Crusaders had almost drawn swords at that, but Redpath's militia had spoken for you, as well as Dathrohan himself and the Crusaders now understood your rites to merely be a blessing upon the spirits. Benedictus Voss, the High Priest of the Scarlet Crusade, as well as the Apostle Fairbanks had come to give their own blessings over the mass graves, remarking on the spirits, yet judging them righteous, if unusual, and that had silenced any further criticism.

All the Orcs of the Crusade were now firmly under your command. Chiefs of lesser clans captured by Stormwind and shipped north to serve the Crusade, captains of warbands come down from the hills to take service in hope of reward rather than continue to raid poor human farms, even the resentful prisoners of Tagorr's like.

Mirador came to sit at your side, and even the sight of him seemed to inspire respect in your Orcs. Tirion Fordring's honour was well known, and as a human noble he was the equivalent of an Orcish chief. For one chief to visit another and receive his hospitality was easy diplomacy, and gave honour to both sides.

Six hundred thronged your camp, slightly outside the palisade of the Crusaders. You had no palisade yourself, you just posted sentries. You could have ordered ditches dug or walls erected but you had no wish to alarm the Crusaders, not when Orcs could now walk without dark looks being directed at them among humans.

Six hundred orcs. Your original warband had taken losses, perhaps only fifty were yet living of those who'd followed you from Durotar, while Vark's Ogres made up another fifty of so. The rest had joined up at various stages during your war in the Plaguelands, whether conscripted from Stormwind's prisons or volunteers from Hammerfall.

Yours was larger than some of the Kalimdor clans. Ishi's words returned to you.

What do they call a chief of more than one clan?

"Dathrohan would speak with you, now you are recovered." Mirador was saying.

"I will go to him today, when this dries." you replied.

In your hands you held leather and crystal.

It was custom for a blademaster to bind an ornament to the hilt of their sword. It had to have meaning, whether a braid from the mane of their first kill, or perhaps a trinket taken from a powerful foe. It didn't mean anything, it was just a reflection of the blademaster's own journey upon the sword-path. You hadn't bound anything to the Fireblade previously, you'd not felt anything to be right, but now you held a black crystal in your hand.

You'd not thought anything of it at the time, indeed you'd barely remembered picking it up.

But now it sat in your hand heavily.

It was said Mograine had taken it from an Orc warlock he'd slain in the Second War. You didn't know if that was true but you felt the power of it, and it seemed a worthy enough trophy.

"I think you mean to make for Alterac soon," Fordring continued, "Is it so?"

You nodded, "I've put it off, and the Crusade are secure. I'll lend my sword again if the Grand Crusader calls, and if I'm able to answer, but I came here to fight and now I must see to other matters."

Fordring claps you on the shoulder, then looks at his gloved hand and wipes some of the paste he's gotten on him off on his tunic, "None would fault you, indeed, I think you may have done more for relations between Orcs and Humans than I!"

"You made it possible." you denied, "Your treatment of Eitrigg was honourable, it is well known among my people."

Fordring accepted the praise gracefully, "Perhaps, but that was long ago. Your intercession into this war has been noted at every court in the Alliance, even the elves know of it. Indeed, that was why I've come today." and from beneath his cloak he draws forth a scroll case, handing it over.

The roaring lion of Stormwind is proud upon the leather, and with a few tugs you have the case open, fishing out a slender roll of vellum within.

The paper is well made, embroidered as any royal writ is, and seals fill the bottom half:

Let it be known that we guarantee the safety of the Blademaster, Grok'mash Fireblade, of the Burning Blade clan, and give him safe passage through the lands of the Alliance. Let it be known that he may come, with his companions or retainers, within any Alliance city for his own purposes, and is to be treated according to his rank, and thereafter to return to his own nation in our protection and defence, in our safe and secure conduct.

Signed below were the names of Varian Wrynn, his regent Bolvar Fordragon, as well as the monarchs Mangi Bronzebeard and Calia Menethil, though each were signed by representatives in the form of Dathrohan and Prince Brann.

"It was Bolvar's idea." Fordring said, "And he had it penned before the battle. He saw promise in you, something more than we've seen from any Orc, and I see it too." and the paladin looked gravely at you, "I hold no authority over you, and I know your honour would prevent you abusing this writ, but I counsel you most strongly, use this. Much can be achieved with unity. Even Dathrohan sees that. Your old teacher, Akinos Steelclaw, he travelled several times to Stormwind for diplomatic talks as I understand, but that was under Thrall, and even we're aware of his passivity… I don't have a specific plan for you, nor has Dathrohan spoken of any such thing to me. His mind is darker than it once was, more conniving than a paladins should be, but he still holds wisdom. This is a chance for something, I feel it."

Fordring's words had been rapid and quiet. Not a whisper, but meant to convey some element of subtlety you were sure. As he said though, where was the plan for… well what? Peace between the Horde and Alliance? There were many differences between your two peoples, and perhaps some of those were due to Thrall. Dealing with the Kul Tirans squatting in Kalimdor would certainly solve some of the tensions. Grok had once suggested it, two years ago now when you'd been sitting in Sen'jin.

You felt the pure flame inside you. Did it desire peace? The fire of your soul had always revelled in battle, and you could feel some of that same battle-joy now, but there was something else behind it, something after battle, yes, perhaps it was the promise of peace.

You looked to Fordring. You would go to Dathrohan soon, Sesk had finished his work and you felt the paste warm on your skin. You didn't trust Dathrohan, not like you trusted Fordring. Perhaps…

Choose 1:
[ ] Tell Fordring about your call to the Light.
[ ] Do not tell Fordring.

Voting will remain open for a week or so, and is immediately open.

We have almost concluded the 3rd arc of this Quest. We're 200k and 2 years into the Quest, so thanks everyone who's been about and reading. I'm going to do another mini-arc for your operations in Alterac, simialrly to the mini-arc for Arathi. This means more binary choices before we go back to the Plan voting.

Also, given the longevity of the Quest, I'd also like to take the opportunity to ask for feedback. For example, in a certain WoW story I've been following, various boss battles have come up, with the bosses shouting their lines from the games in a rather silly manner. I've attempted to add some banter to the Naxx fight without disrupting the tension of the battle, but I'd like to know if this has actually worked.

As such, what have you liked about this quest? What do you think works well? Conversely, what don't you like or think doesn't work so well. These can either be mechanics or plot elements, or characterisation, whatever really.

Also:
Equipment gained:

  • Paste, an older Orcish decoration, these ancient marks denote your rank, clan and occupation, and inspire approval in more conservative members of Orcish society.
  • Bolvar's Writ, a letter of safe conduct commanding all loyal citizens of the Alliance to treat you well.
  • Strange Crystal, a fist sized stone taken as a trophy from Alexandros Mograine, this stone was said to have been taken from a warlock by the paladin, before being used as part of the Ashbringer, Mograine's mighty sword.
Spells gained:
Purefire: You called on the Light in Naxxramas and received felt benevolence. You can channel this power into a healing fire that sears wounds closed and burns away sickness.

Firecalling: Building on the rites learned in the caverns of Orgrimmar, you know the spells and rituals of Firecalling, an Orcish funerary tradition. You can summon up and dismiss feiry spirits of the recently dead, but mainly use this skill in performing funerals.


Elemental connection gained:
You have a connection to the Light. You know little about this currently, but you can feel it, a pure fire in your heart. You called on the Light at your death, and used it's strength to strike down Alexandros Mograine. The Light is traditionally used by human priests and paladins to heal, as well as protecting the weak or striking down evil foes.

Skills gained:
Battle Fury > War Joy: Not only do you control the battle fury of your kind, embracing but refusing to be controlled by the primal instincts of your clan, you hold joy in it, making battle simple for you.
Warsight +5%, now 80% to next level.
Slaying > Advanced Slaying
Expert Tactics +25%, 25% to next level for a capable assault against a powerful enemy position.
Master Weapon Competency +25%, 25% to next level for duelling and winning against two of the most skillful combatants in the Scourge.
 
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[X] Tell Fordring about your call to the Light.
I like the idea of giving Thrall headaches when he hears about this. An Orcish Paladin, who nonetheless adheres to the old ways of Shamanism, and a Blademaster.
I can only imagine his response to diplomatic overtures when Grok's name comes up.
 
[X] Tell Fordring about your call to the Light.
he is one of the ones we trust and he might have some ideas on this. Also ah shame darion wont be getting ashbringer/j
 
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Also, given the longevity of the Quest, I'd also like to take the opportunity to ask for feedback. For example, in a certain WoW story I've been following, various boss battles have come up, with the bosses shouting their lines from the games in a rather silly manner. I've attempted to add some banter to the Naxx fight without disrupting the tension of the battle, but I'd like to know if this has actually worked.
...not for me, it didn't.

Plot and politics is what interests me most in this quest, even though I don't understand half the lore and the nuances evade me. But some of the in-between commentary clears it up. You have been one of the more interaction-happy GMs I've seen.

Besides that, I enjoy interaction between characters and the conflict inherent in their views. Grok vs. Dad, Dad vs. Thrall, Grok & Tirion, Grok & Fairbanks, how Vark (as a more traditional orc) sees Grok's actions, etc. etc.

Fights, especially big ones like Naxx, don't really do anything for me -- too many characters I know too little about come and go throwing one-liners at each other, leaving very little in the way of impressions. I suppose it would be unlikely for Grok to sit down and hash out their differences with Kel'Thuzad or something; just not how the character is played.
 
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[X] Tell Fordring about your call to the Light.

There's really no reason not to do this. Glad the Nax raid is finally done and we got some cool loot from it, sucks that Sylvanas died and got to come back, sucks that Sesik died and didn't. I'm still not sold on the Paladin and Shaman multiclass but I guess it's fine so long as it stays at least 60% Shaman.

All in all Naxramas was a success that will have positive ramifications for the world at large, hopefully we won't have to do something as time consuming again for a while.
 
So I get why Grok would tell Tirion about the Light, since they had the Talk before Naxx.

What I don't quite get is, what happens if he doesn't. He trusts him, he respects him. So what would be his reasons and motives? What would be the implications for the character?
 
that was sally whitemane not sylvanas didn't die

I'm positive that I read "Winsrunner died" in the last update, let me double check.
The Banshee Queen had simply disappeared, though in one fight you found several undead slain by black arrows and concluded that she was still about, hiding from the undead and Crusade both. No more among the party you'd led into Naxxramas had died, apart from Windrunner, all had remained in the camp, recovering.

I was wrong, she is alive, she just didn't stay in our camp. Sesik is also alive, somehow I switched out his name for Ishi on the casualty list.

Rip Ishi, welcome back Sesik?
 
I like the idea of giving Thrall headaches when he hears about this. An Orcish Paladin, who nonetheless adheres to the old ways of Shamanism, and a Blademaster.
Unless it's properly examined, it wouldn't necessarily be seen as that. There's context for weird shaman in Orcish society, for example the magic users who used void magic in the Shadowmoon Clan because they were tapping into the Dark Star, were still considered as Shaman, just weird ones really. In the old Maghar quest Garrosh becomes a priest and Deadeye became an Arcane Warrior which is an old Mage/Warrior multiclass from the RPG for example, but both of them did that and were perceived as different. I'd disagee, as I think they'd be interpreted as just more shaman really. Now we know that's not true, but truth and perception would be very different for actual Orcs
I can only imagine his response to diplomatic overtures when Grok's name comes up.
It would be extremely awkward. Shameful really. An exile who was exiled for pretty political reasons, rather than for crimes etc, has found respect in a foreign nation. Thrall might even be thinking as Vark has been, about the potential for Grok to actually be a secret attempt at usurpation.
Also ah shame darion wont be getting ashbringer/j
I mean he's like 12 and Dathrohan would just have confiscated it really

, even though I don't understand half the lore and the nuances evade me. But some of the in-between commentary clears it up. You have been one of the more interaction-happy GMs I've seen.
I'm glad I'm approachable lol. I'm also pretty happy to do the commetnary really, I get that some people aren't as familiar with the setting, so I don't mind giving a short primer on, for example, the internations with the dragonflights. I do require a certain level of reader engagement, so I don't like it when people just ask me to explain the whole significance of a scene I've worked on for example, but I'm fine with clearing up things and giving the salient points. I do want the quest generally to be approachable for people with less knowledge of warcraft lore.
what interests me most in this quest
These are useful points, I'm glad you've enjoyed. Happily there will be plenty of politics and intrigue as Grok gets more involved in various issues.
Fights, especially big ones like Naxx, don't really do anything for me -- too many characters I know too little about come and go throwing one-liners at each other, leaving very little in the way of impressions.
This however is equally useful. I'm not sure I can necessasrily do anything about it, given there's going to be a certain amount of fighting in a fic about a Blademaster, but sure I can get that for some it's not really stimulating.

All in all Naxramas was a success that will have positive ramifications for the world at large, hopefully we won't have to do something as time consuming again for a while.
To clarify your point on time consuming, are you refering to in character stuff, or a dissatisfaction in the length of time it took to get through the arc? If the later that's fair enough, just wanted to gauge people's reactions.
What I don't quite get is, what happens if he doesn't. He trusts him, he respects him. So what would be his reasons and motives? What would be the implications for the character?
Firstly, Grok hasn't really processed the whole issue. As such there's some reluctance to do so. His culture prevents a large amount of openness, but he's aware something significant has happened, and he trusts Tirion enough to discuss it. So for one reason, base reluctance.

Also for this reason:
I'm still not sold on the Paladin and Shaman multiclass but I guess it's fine so long as it stays at least 60% Shaman.
I'm aware I did some of this by authorial fiat (and character development I suppose). As such, if I offer you chances to engage with it and you dont, that's ok and that will represent Grok somewhat denying it. I don't think it's appropirate to make such a decision without reader input, so I'd requried a consistent pattern of behaviour by Grok. Similarly, even stuff like the Fel isn't absolutely rejected currently. Grok understands the benefits and drawbacks of it, but rejected Feldad when the Fel was offered. Feldad is likely to offer again at some point, but Grok can still either reject or take if he wants etc.

Similarly, I've given various chances to do shaman stuff, but the Quest has generally prioritised Blademaster and Burning Blade actions, whether building Grok's skills or doing other stuff, you've only had like 2 turns of formal shaman training for example.
Rip Ishi, welcome back Sesik?
Sesk's ok, Ishi is the one dead. I don't think I've written Sesik lol
 
To clarify your point on time consuming, are you refering to in character stuff, or a dissatisfaction in the length of time it took to get through the arc? If the later that's fair enough, just wanted to gauge people's reactions.

I went back to actually make sure I was right on how long this took narratively and I think I may be leaning towards the latter, if I'm honest. I really enjoy the arc and I feel the narrative length is definitely justifiable, it was the irl time spent that made it feel like too much time had passed for too little development.


I'm aware I did some of this by authorial fiat (and character development I suppose). As such, if I offer you chances to engage with it and you dont, that's ok and that will represent Grok somewhat denying it. I don't think it's appropirate to make such a decision without reader input, so I'd requried a consistent pattern of behaviour by Grok.
I cant really see an IC reason to deny the light? They way its been built up by people around Grok and Grok himself has anything other then accepting it feeling like narrative whiplash. You've written us into a corner where we have to accept it in some capacity or we will be walking back hundreds of words and a whole arcs climax.

Similarly, I've given various chances to do shaman stuff, but the Quest has generally prioritised Blademaster and Burning Blade actions, whether building Grok's skills or doing other stuff, you've only had like 2 turns of formal shaman training for example.

personally, I enjoy learning more Shamanism, but its actions tend to be a bit lack luster when compared to Blademaster, Burning Blade and even Light actions. We dont seem to get much from the Shaman actions for the time we invest, and we usually have more important things or more effective things to use the action on instead.

That's probably a combination of bad rolls and not having a teacher, but it doesn't really lend itself into an enticing AP sink.
Sesk's ok, Ishi is the one dead. I don't think I've written Sesik lol
Yeah, that was a Typo on my part, sorry.
 
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of course the bloody dreadlord would do that wouldn't he
Well to be fair to him he'd also be expected to do so if he were not. He's one of the most capable combatants, he could do with a powerful weapon etc.
it was the irl time spent that made it feel like too much time had passed for too little development.
THat's fair. It was about 16k but 6 months, so I can see how that could feel fatiguing.
I cant really see an IC reason to deny the light? They way its been built up by people around Grok and Grok himself has anything other then accepting it feeling like narrative whiplash. You've written us into a corner where we have to accept it in some capacity or we will be walking back hundreds of words and a whole arcs climax.
I'd argue there's space in between denial and acceptance. If you didn't engage with it, that's not denial or hostility, that might just be concentrating on other stuff because Grok is busy, that might be just keeping this Pure Flame healing stuff, but not going further or anything. There will indeed be opporunities to deepen that connection, but there'll also be opportunities to choose not to, of which this is the first step. I try not to write you into a corner, but I do want to develop the character and narrative, and therefore that will to an extent write certain bits which are more difficult to change.
personally, I enjoy learning more Shamanism, but its actions tend to be a bit lack luster when compared to Blademaster, Burning Blade and even Light actions. We dont seem to get much from the Shaman actions for the time we invest, and we usually have more important things or more effective things to use the action on instead.

That's probably a combination of bad rolls and not having a teacher, but it doesn't really lend itself into an enticing AP sink.
To an extent that's by design. You were never a shaman after all, that wasn't your profession at teh start etc. If you had picked shaman your 'job' would have been a lot more vision quests, reagent hunting, meditation, dealing with elements and so on.

However, you're a Blademaster, you instead train your swordsmanship, lead military missions and so on. You'd be doing a lot less of the later as a shaman for example.

I do get that it can be less impressive, but that's basically what shamans do a lot of the time. If you wanted to go around binding elementals, that's fine and would produce results, but otherwise there would indeed likely be a lot of what seems like resultsless actions. If you had particular things you wanted to do though in terms of shamanism, I'm pretty happy to provide appropriate rewards. Fundamentally though being a shaman is an acadaemic or spiritual occupation, it's going to have less concrete deliverables than a soldier or officer who has specific missions.

What sort of 'deliverables' would you look for as a shaman? I'm very much open to providing the relevant actions






Also, your map for this mini arc:
 
🥲 I almost teared up a little. Thank you, Bolvar. Thank you, Alliance. You may consist of isolated monarchs and draconic/demonic puppetmasters, but you're more heartwarming than anything we've seen since Neeru becoming The Feldad. Loved the update immensely. Though I think you confused Grok/Vark a couple of times.

[X] Tell Fordring about your call to the Light.
I want Grok'mash to thank him and give him a big old hug, too.

Also, given the longevity of the Quest, I'd also like to take the opportunity to ask for feedback. For example, in a certain WoW story I've been following, various boss battles have come up, with the bosses shouting their lines from the games in a rather silly manner. I've attempted to add some banter to the Naxx fight without disrupting the tension of the battle, but I'd like to know if this has actually worked.
Was it that Kael'thas story from AO3 that had Eldin Sunstrider as his dying brother?

As such, what have you liked about this quest? What do you think works well? Conversely, what don't you like or think doesn't work so well. These can either be mechanics or plot elements, or characterisation, whatever really.
As miffed as I was with Thrall's characterization, it was an interesting role reversal for us to be branded as a dagnerous element from the archetypal good guy of Warcraft III for the sake of finding a scapegoat after the war in the Barrens blew up in the Horde's face.
Jubei'thos has so far remained out of reach, and is still the dreaded. Even now, when Grok has obtained a new level of strength, I'm not confident about our chances.
I liked the many paths to power offered to Grok, and how even traditionally maligned choices like Fel were presented as potential good options, because of how our handler would be our father (who, for all his faults, seems to genuinely love Grok'mash despite appearances).
Sometimes the mechanics of what influences the story and how much (our banter vs decisions vs plot going forward) may be murky, but I'm not too bothered, because I understand that the story should be, firstmost interesting to write for the author, and it can be tricky when players derail it a bit.
For a time I feared Vark would overtake the spotlight, but you actually managed that aspect quite well, and have allowed him to develop on his own (by the time I feared that Vark would make a scene vs the Kul Tiras ambassadors and you said "nope, his experiences have allowed him to move past that and consider alternatives", I was pleasantly surprised). I don't remember if it was established that Vark is of Mok'Nathal stock before our encounter with the ogres, but as far as plot devices go, it was at least fun, and led to a cool encounter.
What I liked the most are two things. The first is Grok's own inner voice, educated guesses and musings, even angst are always fun to read, I enjoy his melancholic thoughts (he sometimes really does sound older than he is, but it adds character). The second is how different characters often varied perspectives on the world, various societies etc. (I think it is most noticeable in our quest to seek out shamanism, where we started out with the Trolls considering it too religious to just "teach", then our own kinda dark experiments with Burning Blade's traditional spirit control shamanism, then getting more perspectives from the Horde's younger generation of shamans, and from warlocks that consider the whole tradition outdated). I wish we'd get some perspectives from the Thrall camp, too, maybe even from Thrall himself (he treated us as the Burning Blade scion and spoke loud and in public, I'd like to have a more private discussion with him someday, like we're speaking with Tirion right now).

The Kul Tiras diplomacy ending up well was a surprise for me, and, considering Grok'mash's current question, I believe that, yes, we should strive to strengthen peace. If the Scarlet Crusade and everyone else was able to find common ground and focus on the Scourge with everything they can spare (really, that bit with penal platoons of orcs from Stormwind? genius), I think Kul Tiras, Theramore and Durotar can sit down and talk about how they can either re-position the "threatening" fortresses, or remove the threat factor altogether (I'd suggest marriage alliance, but who knows it with those two), but that's not something Grok can influence directly, considering we're not even officially part of the Horde right now. Still, if Eitrigg's story is apparently well-known, you bet Grok setting up a good example of befriending the Alliance will also be the stuff of stories someday (who knows, Thrall may yet hear of our turn to Light/BBladeFuneralRites combo and sell it as "him FarSeeing all along" how an exile in the land of Paladins would redeem the Burning Blade, or something like that).

There is a setup about Grok'mash being pushed for the role of Warchief (and characters like Thrall and Rend thus potentially considering him a rival), which I'm not so certain about. On the one hand, I do not think Grok is at the right time, place, or state of mind to consider challenging anyone for the leadership of the Horde. But if we persist in our partnership with the Alliance and continue to roam the lands with out band, then who knows? This bit about Stormwind sending POW orcs to fight in Lordaeron brings up the question of who can control the orcs? It is too early to think about that, but we may, eventually, end up accidentally becoming a sort-of warchief of "The Alliance Orcs", especially if we become landed.

For the current agenda, I think Grok should also concentrate on a couple of things:
1. Celebrating Vark. He really got us out of a difficult situation with the ogres, and has been a trooper in Naxxramas. While Vark has his own agenda and ambitions, he also really likes recognition of our brotherly bond and considers it. If Vark leaves for his own ambitions, we should set up a celebration goodbye party. If he stays, maybe a smaller private celebration between blood brothers will be prudent.
2. Celebrating our living veterans. It is great how we gave a grand ceremony to the fallen, especially our teacher Ishi, but the still alive Blademasters and other veterans from our Horde days should recognize how our service is not just errant knighthood / death-seeking suicide missions, but also an opportunity in its own way. This is also important because we know some of those are spies (at least one from the Shattered Hand, and a Blademaster pretty much masterminding half of our earlier stay in Lordaeron in contact with Neeru). Either them, or their employers should see how grateful we are to our troops.
3. Thinking about our loot and equipment. In connection to the previous points, maybe we should divide some. The GM has mentioned that hoarding equipment is not the best choice, IIRC.
4. Related to that, let's do something about Myzrael. As malevolent as she was, she was (at least in the original game) ultimately not exactly in the right state of mind due to Old God influence or something. I'm not interested in pursuing that quest ourselves, but maybe we can give it out to a shaman who can help her find piece, instead of being our glorified shield. Usually I wouldn't care that much about a captured evil spirit's feelings, but I think in Grok's current Light-enlightened state of mind he'd want to do something about it, at least a little bit.

Overall, this is one of my favourite games on the site, and I always love finding some time to read through the story!
 
[X] Tell Fordring about your call to the Light.

How long has it been in-universe since we left Durotar?
 
For my experience while it was seeing thrall be like this I would imagine he would act like this to people who might remind him and people grom and doomhammer said destroyed their people (ignoring their own parts in that) I do like how you betrayed the trolls so far and wonder how the other troll tribes (amani, druakki and zandalari) would be shown. do wonder how the more evil races like neubrians, mantis and vrykul would be betrayed and did like the politics
 
[X] Tell Fordring about your call to the Light.
There are Shamans who have access to other types of magic so I think it will just be viewed by Grok of him being connected to the Spirit of Light and it's one part of being a Shaman. Light will be a very potent tool for Grok and maybe he can become a Lightforged eventually, all in all it's a good path for Grok to improve but only a single skill he has. Telling Fordring could get Grok instruction or books in how to use Light.

I am really inserted in the consequences of Grok having Light both in his relationships and politically/culturally. I do think Grok will try and sell it to the Orks as the Light just being another Element he can access, but humans and the ones who know him personally may look at Grok as the first of Ork paladins. Seeing the reaction of Onyxia, Varimathras and Feldad will be really interesting too.
 
We got the edge needed against the rogue blademaster. Slowly but fruitful.

This bit about Stormwind sending POW orcs to fight in Lordaeron brings up the question of who can control the orcs? It is too early to think about that, but we may, eventually, end up accidentally becoming a sort-of warchief of "The Alliance Orcs", especially if we become landed.
The results of the raid have proven really good for Grok to be considered a friend of the alliance.

Even to the orcs held up in the main land they would freely go to him even not as prisoners rather than taking scraps as a pitiful warband they want to be part of one that offers them purpose and glory.

Alterac may end up given to Grok to handle with some conditions if his success continues.

He also has the prime component of the Ashbringer. A fitting cycle when it used to belong to an orc warlock. Keldran and others may have more to talk on that.
 
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