Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

There were no warnings and no dialogue about some need to nerf a charm that gives us like, 3 soak tops. It still should be scenelong.
Doubt it was a deliberate nerf. DP probably just made a mistake and it wasn't pointed out to him before he turned in for the night.
 
I think its time to get the anti-possession sorcery. better to have it early and not need it for a while than need it and not have it.
 
[X] Plan Distributed Exp
-[X] Lydia XP: All companions get a separate pool of XP earning at 1/4 of the total XP earned, rounded down. Molly can transfer XP from her main pool to Lydia but not the other way round. Companion pool does NOT reduce what Molly earns.
-[X] Molly: 21xp
—[X] Rendered Villain Dispersal 4xp
—[X] Wind Borne Stride 8xp
—[X] Qiao 1: Steel Skin 3xp
—[X] Touch of Frost 2xp
—[X] Empathy 4 3xp
—[X] Lydia 1 xp
-[X] Lydia 5 xp
—[X] Ox-Body 3xp
—[X] Background: Familiar 1: Raven 3xp
Your math is wrong.
We have 23 XP to spend. You're spending 27XP.
And I dont know what you are spending 1xp on Lydia in Molly's list for. Might be another error.

The idea is that Lydia gets her own pool at 1/4 of total xp earned SEPERATELY. This is because the current sharing discourages getting more companions. How this works is if Molly earns 20xp, she keeps 20xp but Lydia earns 1/4 of that seperately. So Molly earns and uses 20xp but Lydia gains 5xp seperately. So instead of earning 20xp we earn 20xp for Molly and 5xp for Lydia.

To prevent abuse from farming Companions, Molly can transfer her xp to companions but not the other way around.
I dont like it, but thats just my two cents.
Will shut up now.
 
I think its time to get the anti-possession sorcery. better to have it early and not need it for a while than need it and not have it.
Cant afford it yet.
Not without cutting Molly's charm buys to the bone.
The aim is to have it before we meet Mab; that means buying it at the end of September or in October.

Beyond that, your rhetoric is easily inverted. How does perception help us get to interesting xp rich locations, involve ourselves in the vampire war without needing prohibitive travel times, or get to a friend in need outside of our immediate reach?

How does it the perception boost help if we need to fight that pack of malks after we see them, or deal with someone kiting us around with a truck and a shotgun? How about if we need to shank a skinwalker?

Mab isn't the only thing we need to consider, and even in the context of getting ready for her just being better as social combat isn't the end all be all of showing up prepared.
Point of order:
I forgot to mention this: I also want All Things Betray before we meet Justine, which we are going to do soon.
Just in case she's already Nemesis infected. It and Hellscry Chakra are the only things I know that will help.

As for the rest:
1)Skinwalkers like to fight under veils or in disguise. Thats why Dresden needed to bind Demonreach as a sanctum to fight it; he couldnt even see it otherwise. Perception is ESSENTIAL when fighting naagloshi.

2)We dont really need help to fight a pack of malks. Not before, and not now we have Steelskin to supplement VLE.

3)And if someone tried to kite us with a truck we'd fly straight up and follow them.
People have trouble shooting at maneuvering flying targets.

4) Remember the fight underwater against Rhys the Ragged and the Fomor?
Where we were struck blind by a smokescreen and couldnt see the people attacking us?
Even in combat, Perception matters.
 
As another argument in favor of All Things Betray and my plan in general?
This is what happened when we couldnt see, back in Arc 3:

Arc 3 Post 24 and 25
"The pieces are also infectious," Usum helpfully informs you. If the vampires had all been clumped together feeding, or if they had all been fighting one another as the initial spell had meant them to the attack would have been devastating, perhaps even fatal. As it is only four vampires are struck, all in possession of their faculties and all able to resist the twisting o their flesh.

Regain 2 Essence -> Now at 7/12

Seeing this and bearing witness to the death of the worm-creature a moment later the... Fomori, for you do not think this thing had ever been a human cultist spews out a cloud of squid--like ink in which.. other things are swimming.

You should not have been able to see them as you do not see their master in the cloud, but when one of the second echelon of the enemy tries to take you by surprise you see it through eyes of fire. It, or he maybe, looks like a perfectly formed male human save for the fact that he has no head, only smooth skin between the shoulders where the neck aught to be and in the center of his stomach a circular maw that can extend outwards like a proboscis made of glistening human guts.

Easy enough to parry it but your flaming eyes can only catch glimpses of the enemies that attack you and the grey thing is...
25st of July 2006 A.D.

"Go! Make sure they can't get away," you shout into the earpiece, even as you turn your sword against the murk. These things might not have a head, but you'll bet they still have a heart. Closing your eyes you listen.

Lose 1 Essence (Renew Melee Excellency) -> Now at 6/12

Blood like red nectar races though the alien veins of the Red Court, viscera twisted to deadly purpose fly towards you, each seen in a flash of instinct, each parried and there... a heart all-too human thudding with the adrenaline of battle, of challenge. With one swift blow you pierce it, fire illuminating a tangle of glistening guts as you weave between them. Shoulder, knees arms and feet as much as the buckler of black metal ward them off as they try to entangle you, but there are just too many of the darn things. One manages to latch on to your armored ankle, its blie-laced bite burning through the stone of your armor until it gnaws at flesh. It is not trying to drink your blood, you realize with a sudden disquieting jolt but dissolve and consume bone for the vital minerals within.

You take 2 Wounds

As most of the vampires not wracked in agony from the grey one's tendrils continue to rip and tear through any part of it they can reach through the murk you see with distant eyes one of them, gaunt and ashen-skinned, hang back and open its mouth to... sing. You had expected some kind of bestial screech or at best a single high note fit to shatter glass. Instead it sounds more like a symphony of instruments not meant for human hands, tones that defy the ear and melodies that twist back on themselves in haunting echo.

Our surprise negator worked allowing us to respond to attacks.
But we couldnt see our attacker(s), making us resort to blindfighting, and couldnt coordinate with our then allies.
We took wounds as a result. Not very serious, but enough to notice.

Perception matters, in combat and out of it.
As does being able to compensate for enemy Perception debuffs.
 
[X] Plan Distributed Exp
-[X] Lydia XP: All companions get a separate pool of XP earning at 1/4 of the total XP earned, rounded down. Molly can transfer XP from her main pool to Lydia but not the other way round. Companion pool does NOT reduce what Molly earns.
-[X] Molly: 23xp
—[X] Rendered Villain Dispersal 4xp
—[X] Wind Borne Stride 8xp
—[X] Qiao 1: Steel Skin 3xp
—[X] Running to Forever 4xp
—[X] Empathy 4 3xp
—[X] Lydia 1 xp
-[X] Lydia 5 xp
—[X] Ox-Body 3xp
—[X] Background: Familiar 1: Raven 3xp

Mostly voting for this for the XP distribution method, but I also like the picks.
 
Math is still off:
X] Plan Distributed Exp
-[X] Lydia XP: All companions get a separate pool of XP earning at 1/4 of the total XP earned, rounded down. Molly can transfer XP from her main pool to Lydia but not the other way round. Companion pool does NOT reduce what Molly earns.
-[X] Molly: 23xp
—[X] Rendered Villain Dispersal 4xp
—[X] Wind Borne Stride 8xp
—[X] Qiao 1: Steel Skin 3xp
—[X] Running to Forever 4xp
—[X] Empathy 4 3xp
—[X] Lydia 1 xp
-[X] Lydia 5 xp
—[X] Ox-Body 3xp
—[X] Background: Familiar 1: Raven 3xp
We have 23XP to spend.

You're spending Molly(4+8+3+4+3+1) + Lydia (3+3) = 23 + 6 = 29.
You need to redo the math and drop some charms.
 
Math is still off:

We have 23XP to spend.

You're spending Molly(4+8+3+4+3+1) + Lydia (3+3) = 23 + 6 = 29.
You need to redo the math and drop some charms.
Two pools. Main pool of 23 xp and Lydia pool of 1/4 xp of main pool. i.e 5xp. We can transfer from Molly to Lydia but not the other way around.

So we can spend 23 on molly and 5 on Lydia.

Or, 22 on Molly and 6 on Lydia.

This way multiple companions are not a xp drain.
 
Two pools. Main pool of 23 xp and Lydia pool of 1/4 xp of main pool. i.e 5xp. We can transfer from Molly to Lydia but not the other way around.

So we can spend 23 on molly and 5 on Lydia.

Or, 22 on Molly and 6 on Lydia.

This way multiple companions are not a xp drain.
A quarter of the main pool would mean Molly would have 17XP to spend.
Because the total xp gained this Arc was 23 xp.

If you want to split it 3:1 , give Molly 17 and give Lydia 6.
17:6 split
 
A quarter of the main pool would mean Molly would have 17XP to spend.
Because the total xp gained this Arc was 23 xp.

If you want to split it 3:1 , give Molly 17 and give Lydia 6.
17:6 split
This was a method that was conditionally approved before as a potential future method by the QM around the time of the last spending vote. It's just that he didn't allow it at the time because he didn't want to change things after the voting already started. Should I dig up the quotes?
 
This was a method that was conditionally approved before as a potential future method by the QM around the time of the last spending vote. It's just that he didn't allow it at the time because he didn't want to change things after the voting already started. Should I dig up the quotes?
Yes please
I would be quite grateful.
 
[X] Plan Ballroom Blitz
-[X] Molly: 17xp
—[X] Rendered Villain Dispersal 4xp
—[X] Wind Borne Stride 8xp
—[X] Qiao 1: Steel Skin 3xp
—[X] Touch of Frost 2xp
-[X] Lydia 6 xp
—[X] Ox-Body 3xp
—[X] Background: Familiar 1: Raven 3xp

[X] Lydia XP: All companions get 1/4 of the total XP spent on Molly, rounded down. Molly can spend XP on companions but not the other way round. The 1/4 does NOT reduce what Molly earns.
[X] Agree to meet with the Librarian

[X] Plan Ballroom Blitz Willpower
-[X] Molly: 17xp
—[X] Rendered Villain Dispersal 4xp
—[X] Wind Borne Stride 8xp
—[X] Qiao 1: Steel Skin 3xp
—[X] Touch of Frost 2xp
-[X] Lydia 6 xp
—[X] Willpower 6 6 xp
Willpower is what Lydia needs the most.
 
Last edited:
Keep in mind you can also buy still for Lydia, you guys have a common XP pool now.

Is that how you want to handle it, splitting the Pool up between our entire Party?

Not sure about the shared xp to be honest.

The alternative is be making a lot of judgement calls about who contributed more to what and that often comes down to individual rolls and the relationship between them. It is incredibly time consuming and at the end of the day the result is going be subjective anyway. Not to mention that when you will have 4-5 companions it will get even more ungainly counting individual XP streams for each of them.

Why not just give her the NPC treatment and scale her accordingly. That solves a ton of issues.

It 'solves the issue' by making me run the character, that might be fine with one of them at low Essence, but give it time for there to be several of them at higher essence with all sorts of choices to make and that is less time I can spend on other aspects of the world or updating the quest.

That would still mean having to decide which parts of the xp something would have given then go to molly and which don't, and I am certain people who actually know the mechanics could always find something to criticise about NPC builds.

Lydia having 3 dots of Academic in no way justifies her having access to Celestial tier charms, this isn't how exigent charmset-building works. Fuck, it is actually pretty good for a celestial charm too, now I look at it. Instant research? DC reduction? This is not a terrestrial charm. This is not appropriate.
@DragonParadox
Look, if you want us to slow down and stop investing 20XP per arc into Molly, this is fine. Sort of. I'd rather see a direct xp flow reduction, to be perfectly frank.

From a mechanical perspective, if reducing speed of Molly's progression is not intended, the shared XP pool puts us in a position where we have either a choice to purchase xp-efficient charms for party infernal, or buy vastly lesser and inefficient charms for the party terrestrial. And further encourage attempts to sneak in celestial charms into terrestrial charmset.

This is not good.

Look what I am trying to do is keep my workload to a manageable level. I say this as someone who has run multi-year mechanically complicated quests, it is not sustainable for me to handle a Circle's worth of Exalts as NPCs. If you guys want to be efficient that is OK, no one is even forcing you to take Lydia places on adventures, it is just an option you have. I will note however that no matter how powerful Molly is her number of actions is limited and her capacity to be in several places at once is, while not non-existent, limited.

If that leads to a few strong charms slipping through well this isn't creation and those lines are not as clear as they otherwise would have been.

I will also note that any companions who can fight remotely near to Molly's level are going to be rare and yet she has charms like VEE that synergize well with having companions so maybe the trade off for empowering the 'weak' Exalted is worth it.

One alternative would be that companions gain separate xp based on overall earnings like 1/4. For example, say we earn 20 xp overall, then we spend 20 xp on Molly and 1/4 of it is also put in s seperate pool, which is to say 5xp, for Lydia. So each party member coming in gets the, say 1/4 of what Molly earns.

So it avoids the delema of xp segregation and makes progressing multiple party members easier as in the current system we are deinsentivised to gain more circle members.

If you guys want to go for this I'll do it, but this gives you less choices in how to spend XP, if I were a player I would not find this very attractive. Also in my experience even with balanced XP flows there is a danger of the PC leveling up faster as they are present for all the adventures rather than just some of them

This has reminded me of something though, Lydia persuaded Harry to take payment for those wards, given that this is Harry we are talking about that's worth 1 XP

You guys now have 27 to spend.

Yeah, you are running three(? more?) quests as of right now, workload optimization is the way to go. But shared XP gonna encourage other problems, and there are other ways to manage NPC progression.

Hell, I'd be entirely fine with a QM mandate of "you must spend half all of your xp on Lydia." That would suck with additional circlemates, but it would solve some issues, for now.

This is infinitively preferable to me. I'd be fine with much harsher systems as long as they do not force us to choose between spending XP on an Infernal or a terrestrial Exigent from the same shared xp pool.

OK then for the sake of not confusing the vote I am going to leave this round of spending as is and then have a meta vote on how you guys want XP apportioned in the future. Does that sound fair?

It would reduce the amount of xp Molly's circle members get but Molly is the primary character so it is not a bad tradeoff.

It also makes getting new circle members easier, so it is a trade off for their lowered growth.

The pros would be that we are no longer mechanically discouraged from seeking out new circle members. That is worth our circle members having a /4 or /2 growth as compared to Molly.
@uju32, here's every relevant post I could find on the discussion.

Really, the main problem I have is that forcing us to give up a portion of our XP incentivizes us to not gain companions or circlemates, which is the kind of perverse incentives that makes for unfun questing. If we give up a quarter of our XP to our companions, then if we ever get 4 companions (which used to be a decent-sized circle), Molly ends up with 0 XP. That means we fundamentally need a solution where we don't lose XP to our companions if DP ever wants us to even consider expanding, because as-is, we'll never vote to gain another companion if it means losing out on more XP.
 
A quarter of the main pool would mean Molly would have 17XP to spend.
Because the total xp gained this Arc was 23 xp.

If you want to split it 3:1 , give Molly 17 and give Lydia 6.
17:6 split
Not sure how I can make it cleaner.

It is NOT a split. There is total xp earned. Say, 20. Molly gets this, full 20. Companions get 1/4 of that without reducing the amount. So 5xp.

So Molly gets 20 and companions get 5. There is NO split.
 
1)Molly has the Crown. Its a one use information superweapon.

She has Cyberdevils 2, which is ok, but not particularly good outside scenarios with tech. She has no bound spirits collecting information.
She has Alertness 0, Awareness 0, Investigation 0, Streetwise 0, Empathy 3.
She is NOT an information monster.

2)The Essence regen ability of RVD is great, and in any other situation I would be championing it.
The strategic mobility right now is not something we need.
We arent going to be going anywhere solo before November.

3)Its not just Daniel. Its the setting.
Specialization means we do not prioritize maxing her out in non-core capabilities. But the child of a god in a walking around with Occult 1 is actively asking for shit to happen. We already had Corpsetaker almost grab her.
1) She has good socials and good knowledge skills. Perception could be better, but in terms of figuring out what the details are she is solid.

To a certain extent she can work around it.

2) Based on what? If we have the ability we can start using it for stuff. Your desire not to isn't the same as it not being a viable option.

3) This was clearly her innocence flaw, any occult at all should have told her allowing herself to be possessed was a bad idea. That she did it anyway indicates that her flaw was exploited by an experienced manipulator.

We arent bending our build around her. None of these are one-use skills.
We still have a standing invitation from Odin, where those social stats will apply. With Lara Raith.
With whatever other heavy hitters choose to play.

But Mab is the head of government of the hyperpower of the setting.
Our relationship is going to materially warp the course of this Quest
Failing to prioritize preparing for her is just a terrible idea.

Perception is necessary for identifying XP rich locations, and crossing points into the NeverNever.
Its necessary for identifying threats early dnough that we can move squishies; we have a surprise negator for fights only.
It allows us identify snipers that arent aimed at us, or people spying on us from afar, like Possessed!Lydia.

This is the Dresden Files. Information is the superweapon of choice.
Ask the wizards.
This is warping our build around her; they can be used for other stuff, but with months of exp devoted to certain ways of doing things there will be consequences for our optimal investment choices.

Perception isn't the same kind of information as you're talking about. Wizards play with strategic information, which we're already good at.

The charm has its uses, but since you have to spend for it ATB is limited to cases where we know we need to be paranoid and competes with our essence economy.

I know it's reflective, but we have precedent that reflexive isn't the same as instant and immediate in response to relevant stimuli.

See this:


Gorfel could have used mind magic to make us forget we needed to activate a perfect mental defense, ergo it's possible for a reflexive response to happen after something it could be relevant for.

We can't identify snipers with it (or similar stuff) unless we already suspect they're around and have it up.

Edit:
GM stated that VEE would allow Molly to get the small fey as a ready made spy network.
Why would that be necessary, or even particularly helpful?

The little folk are ditzy, but no fey is just going to make a deal like that at the drop of a hat.

Paying them the normal way seems like a better plan.

I forgot to mention this: I also want All Things Betray before we meet Justine, which we are going to do soon.
Just in case she's already Nemesis infected. It and Hellscry Chakra are the only things I know that will help.
Nemesis can hide from Uriel when it wants to, I doubt ATB is going to cut it here.

Fair point on the veil, but super speed is a significantly more common ability than veils are. In that regard a skinwalker wasn't the best example for me to choose.

A truck moving faster than we can fly would be a problem without the speed booster.

To the last point; I'm not saying perception is useless, I'm just prioritizing reaction speed and mobility above it.

Especially since one is always on and the other must compete with our limited essence reserves.
 
Last edited:
I reworded it to be clear.

Lydia XP: All companions get 1/4 of the total XP spent on Molly, rounded down. Molly can spend XP on companions but not the other way round. The 1/4 does NOT reduce what Molly earns.
 
Last edited:
Why would that be necessary, or even particularly helpful?

The little folk are ditzy, but no fey is just going to make a deal like that at the drop of a hat.

Paying them the normal way seems like a better plan.
GM gave the example of them wishing for background 1dot endless pizza. Endless perpetual payment.

Not to mention VEE would solve our money issues just have the Goules start a company and every month have one of them wish it bigger, and more successful. in 10 month we own the largest company in the world.
 
Last edited:
[X] Plan Distributed Exp
-[X] Lydia XP: All companions get a separate pool of XP earning at 1/4 of the total XP earned, rounded down. Molly can transfer XP from her main pool to Lydia but not the other way round. Companion pool does NOT reduce what Molly earns.
-[X] Molly: 23xp
—[X] Rendered Villain Dispersal 4xp
—[X] Wind Borne Stride 8xp
—[X] Qiao 1: Steel Skin 3xp
—[X] Running to Forever 4xp
—[X] Empathy 4 3xp
—[X] Lydia 1 xp
-[X] Lydia 5 xp
—[X] Ox-Body 3xp
—[X] Background: Familiar 1: Raven 3xp

Mostly voting for this for the XP distribution method, but I also like the picks.
Made some clarifications as to how the xp sharing works as ghere was some confusion.
 
Back
Top