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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[X] Wissenland
[x] Sylvania

Ultimately, I don't want to get involved with another Hold-campaign time-sink. But Wissenland seems urgent and pokeable without being something that will take all our time if we have to get involved.

For Sylvania, I just like the idea of Mathy creating an image of always watching....
 
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Jyn Ryvia said:
For Sylvania, I just like the idea of Mathy creating an image of always watching....
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Mathilde's shadow indeed stretches long over Sylvania.

And the furniture, and wherever else it can reach. It's a surprisingly stretchy shadow.

Honestly, we should look into making it a familiar. I know some people are worried about familiar obsession, but come on, it's half way there already.
 
[X] Karaz-a-Karak
[X] Thorek
[X] Wissenland

Ultimatly, Wissenland might be a chance to get closer to another political ally inside the Empire. Eventually, we might need those allies if we ever want something voted on, or even to help with Karaz Ankor's next project...
 
Sparsebeard said:
[X] Karaz-a-Karak
[X] Thorek
[X] Wissenland

Ultimatly, Wissenland might be a chance to get closer to another political ally inside the Empire. Eventually, we might need those allies if we ever want something voted on, or even to help with Karaz Ankor's next project...
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As long as it's nothing detrimental to Stirland/Sylvania, we have Roswita's vote on anything, anything that strengthens the Eonir/Middenland alliance has both the Graf's and the Ar-Ulric's vote, and we also have a lot of influence over Mandred and his vote as well, once he becomes the Prince of Reikland. Considering that we barley interact with Imperial Politics, we can throw around 4 out of 15 votes on a good number of subjects, which is hella crazy.

If it's something that mutually benefits the Dwarves, we'll get the three Sigmarite votes as well, which puts us one vote short of a majority.

So if we can prove (or "prove") that Marrienburg was responsible for the Skull River incident, and that we need to claim the waystone nexus on the prison island, we can actually mobilise the Empire to war to reclaim the province very easily. And that's an extreme example of something we might want enacted on a nationwide scale.

And that's ignoring the fact that Roswita is highly likely to be the next Emperor—at this point, it's her, Boris, or the Talabecland guy, and Roswita has the advantage of having the three Sigmarite votes on her side. With Luitipold out of the picture, we're going to have a lot of soft influence on the running of the Empire by default.

... that's not a justification for taking an enthusiastic walk through the imperial palace, I should add.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
As long as it's nothing detrimental to Stirland/Sylvania, we have Roswita's vote on anything, anything that strengthens the Eonir/Middenland alliance has both the Graf's and the Ar-Ulric's vote, and we also have a lot of influence over Mandred and his vote as well, once he becomes the Prince of Reikland. Considering that we barley interact with Imperial Politics, we can throw around 4 out of 15 votes on a good number of subjects, which is hella crazy.

If it's something that mutually benefits the Dwarves, we'll get the three Sigmarite votes as well, which puts us one vote short of a majority.

So if we can prove (or "prove") that Marrienburg was responsible for the Skull River incident, and that we need to claim the waystone nexus on the prison island, we can actually mobilise the Empire to war to reclaim the province very easily. And that's an extreme example of something we might want enacted on a nationwide scale.

And that's ignoring the fact that Roswita is highly likely to be the next Emperor—at this point, it's her, Boris, or the Talabecland guy, and Roswita has the advantage of having the three Sigmarite votes on her side. With Luitipold out of the picture, we're going to have a lot of soft influence on the running of the Empire by default.

... that's not a justification for taking an enthusiastic walk through the imperial palace, I should add.
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Er... not that I like Marianburg but we really do not wan to 'prove' that the ambush was them. I mean sure if there is proof we can go for it, odds are the Directorate would throw the guilty party under the wheels of dwarf war-making if they had to. But if we frame them then they will have no actual guilty party and thus no real ability or inclination to back down. They cannot as a matter of internal politics just come up with a scapegoat which means war which at best means an enormous use of Order resources jut to get a war ravaged Marianburg back in imperial hands, at worst we lose and get nothing for the trouble.

There is a reason we did not just frame Marianburg on the spot when we got the info that linked them to the crime and that is because we do not actually want war, it is not in the best interest of the Empire, peaceful reunification is
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
As long as it's nothing detrimental to Stirland/Sylvania, we have Roswita's vote on anything, anything that strengthens the Eonir/Middenland alliance has both the Graf's and the Ar-Ulric's vote, and we also have a lot of influence over Mandred and his vote as well, once he becomes the Prince of Reikland. Considering that we barley interact with Imperial Politics, we can throw around 4 out of 15 votes on a good number of subjects, which is hella crazy.

If it's something that mutually benefits the Dwarves, we'll get the three Sigmarite votes as well, which puts us one vote short of a majority.

So if we can prove (or "prove") that Marrienburg was responsible for the Skull River incident, and that we need to claim the waystone nexus on the prison island, we can actually mobilise the Empire to war to reclaim the province very easily. And that's an extreme example of something we might want enacted on a nationwide scale.

And that's ignoring the fact that Roswita is highly likely to be the next Emperor—at this point, it's her, Boris, or the Talabecland guy, and Roswita has the advantage of having the three Sigmarite votes on her side. With Luitipold out of the picture, we're going to have a lot of soft influence on the running of the Empire by default.

... that's not a justification for taking an enthusiastic walk through the imperial palace, I should add.
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I feel like the Empire has many other priorities before going on an expantionist crusade against a relatively benign neighbour. Furthermore, Mathilde has no personal reason to spend her precious political capital to start a ruinous war for both the Empire and Marienburg.

Hell, one of the main point with the Waystone Project is to try and bring together potentially amicable factions and help avoid such pointless wars through cooperation.

Mobilising the Empire to help with the upcoming dwarven campaign on the other hand...
 
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Also I'm uncertain if it's the emperor that can declare war or if the elector counts can do it too... Also i think the provinces itself could go to war if they wanted too...
 
Tobtorp said:
Also I'm uncertain if it's the emperor that can declare war or if the elector counts can do it too... Also i think the provinces itself could go to war if they wanted too...
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The answer is complicated. The Emperor is more of a herder than a master, but it's generally accepted that the Empire will back up its own, but also that they wouldn't mobilise without collective agreement. Consequences are inevitable for those that flub the Empire's relations or start unnecessary conflict, and that includes the Emperor if need be. If the Empire is not united in its decisions, then we know what that looks like, and it's not pretty. Which is why there are many organisations to put checks and stopgaps in line.
 
Tobtorp said:
Also I'm uncertain if it's the emperor that can declare war or if the elector counts can do it too... Also i think the provinces itself could go to war if they wanted too...
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The emperor will generally try to get the electors on board with their agendas, but they can still declare wars and enact laws unilaterally, even unpopular ones, though not necessarily without consequence. Dieter was deposed for selling Marienburg's independence, for example. Another example of an unpopular law passed unilaterally was Karl-Franz's Mutant Edict, which made the discrimination and persecution of mutants a crime punishable by death.
 
[X] Revise

[X] Middenland
[X] Karak Vlag

[X] Eike

Naturally.

[X] Amber College
[X] Gold College

I want to know.
 
Andres said:
The emperor will generally try to get the electors on board with their agendas, but they can still declare wars and enact laws unilaterally, even unpopular ones, though not necessarily without consequence. Dieter was deposed for selling Marienburg's independence, for example. Another example of an unpopular law passed unilaterally was Karl-Franz's Mutant Edict, which made the discrimination and persecution of mutants a crime punishable by death.
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It may have been widely unpopular, but it made Magister Patriarch Charles Xavier very happy
(or, on reflection, perhaps Lord Magister Erik Lensherr, given the 'punishable by death' part)
 
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Andres said:
The emperor will generally try to get the electors on board with their agendas, but they can still declare wars and enact laws unilaterally, even unpopular ones, though not necessarily without consequence. Dieter was deposed for selling Marienburg's independence, for example. Another example of an unpopular law passed unilaterally was Karl-Franz's Mutant Edict, which made the discrimination and persecution of mutants a crime punishable by death.
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I've never heard of such a thing. Is that from 4th Edition? I find it hard to believe Karl Franz would pass a law like that.
 
Codex said:
I've never heard of such a thing. Is that from 4th Edition? I find it hard to believe Karl Franz would pass a law like that.
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All I remember is that he started to realize that Mutants are just people with shit luck. He wanted to pass something to keep them from getting burned like usual. But couldn't get the support for it to happen. But I don't remember the 'by death' thing at all.
 
MiracleGrow said:
All I remember is that he started to realize that Mutants are just people with shit luck. He wanted to pass something to keep them from getting burned like usual. But couldn't get the support for it to happen. But I don't remember the 'by death' thing at all.
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I don't mind that plot point in general, I just don't like it being ascribed to Karl Franz, the guy who instituted Window Taxes in his home city and sent the Reiksguard to trample rioters. Karl Franz isn't a good guy, he's a ruthlessly practical person who only does stuff if it provides clear benefits. He is described as one of the best statesman in the history of the Empire. Unilaterally passing such a ridiculously unpopular law because he had a change of heart doesn't strike me as in-character.

I say this as someone who does want mutants to be given a chance. I'm just not sure if it's Karl Franz who's supposed to give it to them.
 
Codex said:
I've never heard of such a thing. Is that from 4th Edition? I find it hard to believe Karl Franz would pass a law like that.
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I believe it's from the Enemy Within WFRP campaign. Karl Franz was being poisoned by chaos cultists, and while he was delirious some radical Shallyan reformists got a hold of him and convinced him to pass a law to forbid the persecution of Mutants.
 
Codex said:
I've never heard of such a thing. Is that from 4th Edition? I find it hard to believe Karl Franz would pass a law like that.
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The Edict of Tolerance said:
By Order of His Imperial Majesty, the Right Royal Karl-Franz
Grand Prince of the Reikland, Prince of Altdorf, Count of the West March
Sigmar's Heir and Exalted Ruler of the Empire

The proven hope for the salvation of those who suffer the lamentable affliction of mutation requires that no person who suffers from the affliction of mutation may be assumed to be a servant of Chaos.

This protection holds so long as the afflicted declare themselves so, thus showing they do not seek to work in secret against the Empire, and so long as they commit no criminal act, showing that their judgment has not been corrupted.

Thus be it known to all the Emperor's Subjects that the practice of executing or exiling those persons suffering from the affliction of mutation is henceforth forbidden under pain of death, so long as such persons abide by the terms of this edict.

Issued on 11th of Sommerzeit, 2523
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Don't get too excited about Franz's display of tolerance though
From what info I was able to quickly look up at least, the context for this Edict is apparently that Franz was bedridden by some illness, and in his weakened state of mind Shallyan Reformers were able to persuade him to enact an edict making the persecution of mutants a crime
 
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