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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Briefvoice said:
This is odd. My "No" vote on the Hedgewise does not appear to be showing up in the tally despite my other votes showing up.
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This is because of the task voting bug where an identical vote body for a different task, while correctly tallied if you split the vote up by task, appears as the first kind. So the tally sorts the [HEDGEWISE] No vote into the [HOUSE] No bucket for display purposes, even though it does actually count it. You can get around this by splitting up the vote by task categories through tally management.

As you can see, the tally correctly records you as voting No on Hedgewise and as the only person to do so. It just incorrectly displays it as HOUSE because both HOUSE and HEDGEWISE tasks have an identical voting option -- "No" -- and a No vote for House was recorded before a No vote for Hedgewise.
 
picklepikkl said:
This is because of the task voting bug where an identical vote body for a different task, while correctly tallied if you split the vote up by task, appears as the first kind. So the tally sorts the [HEDGEWISE] No vote into the [HOUSE] No bucket for display purposes, even though it does actually count it. You can get around this by splitting up the vote by task categories through tally management.

As you can see, the tally correctly records you as voting No on Hedgewise and as the only person to do so. It just incorrectly displays it as HOUSE because both HOUSE and HEDGEWISE tasks have an identical voting option -- "No" -- and a No vote for House was recorded before a No vote for Hedgewise.
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The tally system is fascinatingly imperfect.
 
Mopman43 said:
The tally system is fascinatingly imperfect.
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Firnagzen did a fantastic job when designing it, but it's had more and more additional functions bolted onto it over time, and he's been swamped with work on his doctoral thesis for most of the past two years.

A proper re-write of it wouldn't be a bad idea, but Firn doesn't have the time or energy to go over it nowadays and none of the other Operators have the same deep experience with it.
 
Parabola said:
I'm assuming so too, given that it'd be odd for us to only have dwarven books on that.

On that note... I have made a Google Sheets document for the library and the topics we have at the moment. Personally, I find visual arrangements of information more palatable. I was thinking of keeping it to myself, but maybe someone here will find it useful for future votes regarding what sorts of books we should get.


View: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IbiOsj5OP-o0yelG2XkiC1iLh7fCgMcRm6silGH_-BA/edit?usp=sharing
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Boney said that Halfling Gods is a full subject, it's not each of the individual gods is its own subject.
 
[X] [HOUSE] Yes
[X] Plan: Just the Heir
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly

Well, it feels like a tad to much to allow it across the empire, but just inside the forest seems fine. And i've seen enough Boney quotes to indicate that the Elf's would be actually reasonable and willing to negotiate if situation changes.

Furthermore, we do need the political tie given how close we could be to getting kicked out.
 
It feels a bit like we are missing out on a very good deal for fear of 'politics' if we just take the heir. We are never going to be that plugged in or that good at elf politics for the good and simple reason that we are never going to have the time. We have other things to do. So what then we just randomly get a lot of people who know politics and hope that they will support the project.

The thing is I think we already have that. We are in this kingdom at the invitation of the queen and we have the support of the Grey Lords, who count as 1/3 of the power in Laurelorn, at least my their own measure. When it comes to insulating the project from internal Eonir opposition we seem to be doing fine so what do we need the heir for?
 
DragonParadox said:
It feels a bit like we are missing out on a very good deal for fear of 'politics' if we just take the heir. We are never going to be that plugged in or that good at elf politics for the good and simple reason that we are never going to have the time. We have other things to do. So what then we just randomly get a lot of people who know politics and hope that they will support the project.

The thing is I think we already have that. We are in this kingdom at the invitation of the queen and we have the support of the Grey Lords, who count as 1/3 of the power in Laurelorn, at least my their own measure. When it comes to insulating the project from internal Eonir opposition we seem to be doing fine so what do we need the heir for?
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"We don't have the time for it" is a reason to take the Heir. They can help us handle all that stuff so we don't have to waste time on it. The Queen is presumably too busy to do stuff for us, and Hatalath has spent the last few centuries living inside a liminal realm. He's very out of touch with the comings and goings of the cityborn. Our other Elf contributor is Cadaeth and whilst she's on the council, she's also a forestborn and again, I presume she's not well connected to cityborn politics except for when it intersects her duty as Vicereine.

Also we haven't faced any internal Eonir opposition yet—we don't even know what the opposition looks like.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
"We don't have the time for it" is a reason to take the Heir. They can help us handle all that stuff so we don't have to waste time on it. The Queen is presumably too busy to do stuff for us, and Hatalath has spent the last few centuries living inside a liminal realm. He's very out of touch with the comings and goings of the cityborn. Our other Elf contributor is Cadaeth and whilst she's on the council, she's also a forestborn and again, I presume she's not well connected to cityborn politics except for when it intersects her duty as Vicereine.

Also we haven't faced any internal Eonir opposition yet—we don't even know what the opposition looks like.
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Can they help us? Sure. Do we need the help? Not so sure on that. I am not seeing all those political impediments you are talking about. I am just not sold on the notion that we need someone to nimbly handle Eonir politics when said politics has entirely left us alone, likely do to our powerful patrons. All in all I would rather have someone who can help with the very much extent problem of 'figuring out how the Waystones work'.
 
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@Boney it's been almost two years since we've come to Laurelorn, and Kadoh told us that the Festival of Games occurs every four years:
Boney said:
"The festival of games in honour of Asuryan, every four years. Feats of vigour and skill and strength. I win them."
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Do we know when the next Festival of Games is going to be held? Seems like the kind of thing we'd need to keep an eye on since it changes the local politics.
 
DragonParadox said:
Can they help us? Sure. Do we need the help? Not so sure on that. I am not seeing all those political impediments you are talking about. I am just not sold on the notion that we need someone to nimbly handle Eonir politics when said politics has entirely left us alone, likely do to our powerful patrons. All in all I would rather have someone who can help with the very much extent problem of 'figuring out how the Waystones work'.
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'It hasn't happened yet, so we don't need to worry about it' isn't something I'm comfortable with. I'd rather preemptively nip any issues in the bud before they become problems, than be blindsided and have to deal with it when it happens.

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Codex said:
@Boney it's been almost two years since we've come to Laurelorn, and Kadoh told us that the Festival of Games occurs every four years:

Do we know when the next Festival of Games is going to be held? Seems like the kind of thing we'd need to keep an eye on since it changes the local politics.
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Speaking of which, doesn't the Warden change every year as well? Who's the current warden in that case?
 
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Codex said:
@Boney it's been almost two years since we've come to Laurelorn, and Kadoh told us that the Festival of Games occurs every four years:

Do we know when the next Festival of Games is going to be held? Seems like the kind of thing we'd need to keep an eye on since it changes the local politics.
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It only changes local politics if Kadoh loses. Which seems to not really be a thing that happens. One day, maybe, but I suspect most champions retire pretty much undefeated. Or they die instead of retiring.
 
deathofrats0808 said:
It only changes local politics if Kadoh loses. Which seems to not really be a thing that happens. One day, maybe, but I suspect most champions retire pretty much undefeated. Or they die instead of retiring.
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It's been mentioned multiple times that the House in charge of the Cult of Asuryan determines the tests, and that lets them rig things to the competition to get their preferred candidate to win. It seems that the Champion is usually the puppet of whatever house dominates Asuryan worship as a result. Kadoh is in a unique circumstance in that he was a puppet of Elwynn, not Malforric, and Marrisith got her hooks into him instead of Malforric when Elwynn died. I doubt he's invincible, especially if Malforric are plotting to replace him.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
'It hasn't happened yet, so we don't need to worry about it' isn't something I'm comfortable with. I'd rather preemptively nip any issues in the bud before they become problems, than be blindsided and have to deal with it when it happens.
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We have had no indication that it even can happen is the issue IMO. I mean we are not preparing against the second coming of the Great Maw landing on Laurelorn either and that would be an issue if it did happen.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Speaking of which, doesn't the Warden change every year as well? Who's the current warden in that case?
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Last Vicarius Triumvir we know of was Delynna. If they go clockwise, the current Triumvir is from the Council of Frost. If they go counterclockwise, the current Triumvir is Kaia. If they don't go either Clock or anticlock because they don't follow geographic position to determine who the Triumvir is, then it's Galenstra.
 
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TreP said:
Yeah, because we've done almost nothing and spent most of the time outside of Laurelorn, so we didn't have any chance to encounter Elf politics.
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I mean said politics has not gotten in the way. That is not something that a lack of visibility on our part can obviate. It feels like chasing ghosts to try to solve the problem we manifestly do not have. If we try to deal with anything that could conceivably be an issue than there is no end of troubles.
 
If we ever have concrete political troubles that need to be handled by an Eonir political expert and Cadaeth can't help while Tindomiel doesn't want to (given that we "only" recruited a magical theorist from them even if the rest of the House is right next door) then we can always recruit one of the more outwards facing Houses for exactly that job. One of those that are well networked in Tor Lithanel, but don't really have any of their own developed Empire contacts, having to work through the Wardens or Ellemakil at the moment. Like House Mardil or one of the three Mathlannites for instance. A favorable trade deal that gets House Miriel to switch from isolationist to pro-contact would also be interesting, seeing how they like to give charity to the commoners and thus might have a decent ear to the ground.
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
'It hasn't happened yet, so we don't need to worry about it' isn't something I'm comfortable with. I'd rather preemptively nip any issues in the bud before they become problems, than be blindsided and have to deal with it when it happens.
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Preemptively dealing with potential problems is good. Preemptively sacrificing benefits so that a potential future problem costs us less is less so. I'd rather have this magical theorist participate in the foundation than save 1-2 future AP on getting a dedicated local politician on board. A decent amount of voters want to get the EIC involved in Laurelorn, maybe with some monopolistic assurances to protect local markets from superior competition. That alone should get us a politician on board if we want it.
 
DragonParadox said:
We have had no indication that it even can happen is the issue IMO. I mean we are not preparing against the second coming of the Great Maw landing on Laurelorn either and that would be an issue if it did happen.
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We got told up-front that the decision to let the project in is on the slimmest of majorities.

A single Major House deciding differently means the project ends.

If you don't think that's something within the realm of possibility, then I don't know what to tell you.
 
DragonParadox said:
I mean said politics has not gotten in the way. That is not something that a lack of visibility on our part can obviate. It feels like chasing ghosts to try to solve the problem we manifestly do not have. If we try to deal with anything that could conceivably be an issue than there is no end of troubles.
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I mean, same rhetoric could be used about theorist. Said problems with Waystone research hasn't gotten in our way either, so there is no need to grab one right now. We only think it would be hard. Same as we only think that Elf politics could be trouble.
 
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Mopman43 said:
We got told up-front that the decision to let the project in is on the slimmest of majorities.

A single Major House deciding differently means the project ends.

If you don't think that's something within the realm of possibility, then I don't know what to tell you.
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That is not the project, that is the alliance with Middleland and opening to the wold in general. Keeping that afloat is way above our pay grade IMO.
 
DragonParadox said:
We have had no indication that it even can happen is the issue IMO. I mean we are not preparing against the second coming of the Great Maw landing on Laurelorn either and that would be an issue if it did happen.
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One of those 2 is less likely than the other. We just don't know much about Laurelorn's politics, so having someone who know it better than us is a good thing.

The heir will be part of the Project and is unproven. Any failure or problems would reflect badly on him and his house so he has an interest in being diligent.

Also, the heir of a great house is very likely in contact with other high-ranking people. The powerfuls like to network with each others, both in reality and in the Warhammer universe. That could open us doors that we wouldn't even see otherwise.
 
TreP said:
I mean, same rhetoric could be used about theorist. Said problems with Waystone research hasn't gotten in our way either, so there is no need to grab one right now. We think it would be hard. Same as we think that Elf politics could be trouble.
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It kind of has. When we tried to look at the stones last turn there was manifestly a lot of confusion on out part . Mathilde has no clue how they work.

K von Carstein said:
One of those 2 is less likely than the other. We just don't know much about Laurelorn's politics, so having someone who know it better than us is a good thing.

The heir will be part of the Project and is unproven. Any failure or problems would reflect badly on him and his house so he has an interest in being diligent.

Also, the heir of a great house is very likely in contact with other high-ranking people. The powerfuls like to network with each others, both in reality and in the Warhammer universe. That could open us doors that we wouldn't even see otherwise.
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True, on the other hand maybe he is generally hated by most of the rest of the nobility over the Great Tea Snorting Incident of 2430, we know very little of how the Eonir politics work and can only assume that
A we need political help
and
B he will even be of any great help in the undefined issues we may face

If we are serious about poking the politics of Laurelorn we should take some actions to find out more about them first before paying for things in anticipation of what we might need.
 
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