From a real life person point of view, I'm not worried either.
From Mathilde's point of view, I would be at least conscious about possibility of Elves changing their mind and ruining years of work.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
From Mathilde's point of view, I would be at least conscious about possibility of Elves changing their mind and ruining years of work.
I think this best illustrates the difference between our positions. I do not think there is an 'our side' as in the side of Mathilde Weber, there is a side for engagement with the outside world that is lead by the queen. As far as the elves are concerned Mathilde is a mildly interesting curiosity that might have access to lost elf and dwarf lore (likely leaving them at least a little bemused at all the other mayflies we have gathered here). Without some kind of results no one is going to take Mathilde seriously enough to make alliances with her
Tindomiel are willing to make an alliance with Mathilde on the assumption that she will get results, and we haven't done anything yet. I think they are treating us pretty seriously.
I think you are massively overstating just how haughty and arrogant the Eonir are. Each one we've spoken to so far has treated us with respect, not as an amusement.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
I do however think that letting people in is very much something that takes bit more effort to walk back. Maybe they could posit the vote, but there goes considerably more thought into if its worth it potentially pissing off the people involved in the project. Which includes people such as King Belegar and Thorek, the second most esteemed Runelord. The representatives from Kislev and Empire are bit less politically stunning but surely also relevant, unless, of course, you count the Ar-Ulric and Count of Middenland, which you should, in such decision.
Not letting people into Laurelorn was easy, when they were still in isolation, but now that those ties exist and that political capital has been invested in it? That means making enemies by breaking those same ties.
Thats like, entirely different problem, with entirely different context of issues, and i sincerely think that considering the original vote to be valid representation of what happens in case balance of the voters shift back is wrong, because its quite simply nowhere near the same thing to have an opinion about.
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- Location
- South Africa
Didn't Boney mention something along the lines of if we get involved with elves, then just as the dwarves were modified to be less extreme so would be the elves?
This could be a partial reflection of that.
Clarification: I still believe that the Eonir are less proud than the Asur, but if the Elves as a whole are made more reasonable, then that stands as ground for the Eonir to be even more 'down-to-earth'.
Err, you don't have to care.
Personally, I just like to muse about different scenarios, that could or could not happen.
This is not an alliance, this is them agreeing to work for the project in exchange for benefits as part of the project. If we were truly allies than we would have been brought in confidence as to the positions of the House and how we might contribute to them.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
That was a dumb question I asked, I have been awake for quite some time and my logic is currently, well; not-logic.
Apologies.
There was one last year in 2487, Kadoh crushed it.
Storm > Sun > Rain > Frost. Currently the Warden of the Rain, Lord Galenstra of House Fanpatar.
Minor nitpick: the Lord in charge of each Ward holds two titles: the military title of Warden and the political title of Vicarius. The one that is Triumvir that year could be referred to as 'Vicarius Triumvir', while the other three would be singular 'Vicarius Councillor' or plural 'Vicarii Councillors'.
The title and benefits of being a Great House was granted to certain families to encourage them to immigrate to Laurelorn back when Tor Lithanel and Kor Immarmor were founded, and each Great House was granted a seat on the High Council when it was formed to handle decision-making during the Sundering, when they were cut off from Ulthuan. There's no process for naming a new Great House or adding anyone new to the High Council except for by creating a new Ward, which hasn't happened since Kor Immarmor was destroyed during the War of Vengeance and its lands were made the Ward of Frost. There was some discussion about making what was once the province of Drakwald into a new Ward when they won the war against its Elector Count, but in the end they decided against it and withdrew their forces, and eventually Middenland absorbed it instead.
The lingering cultural cringe of a former colony is a powerful and insidious force. House Miriel measures themselves against an idealized memory of Ulthuan at its height, and find themselves wanting.
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Codex
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...Huh. Either I underestimated Kadoh or overestimated the competition, because I expected him to find a challenge. Seems our boy's got some serious skill. Good for him, and for us.
I don't know why this came up in my brain, but if you draw a line from the geographic position of the Ward of Storms to the Ward of Sun, then down to Rain, then diagonally up towards the Ward of Frost, you end up with a reversed Master Rune of Spite.
This is informative, but I was wondering if I slipped up in my phrasing? I thought I was clear that the Warden became Vicarius Triumvir and that it switched every year. That each one of them is called Vicarius regardless of if they're Triumvir or not is new information to me though.
EDIT: Oh I caught it. Apparently I used "Vicarius Triumvir" and "Vicarius" interchangably, which is confusing with the information that they're Vicarius regardless of whether they're Triumvir or not.
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pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
I mean, yes, that was implied literally every time he was on screen.
That they're always a Vicarius makes the second paragraph potentially misleading: "when another Warden is Vicarius", "the three Wards who would act as Vicarius".
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
To be fair, we've biased that sample by deliberately seeking out the ones that we feel we can interact with well. We have mostly not interact with the isolationist houses, because time is precious and our expectations of gain there are low, and we don't know how many of them are isolationists out of economic/internal political stances (like Miriel seem to be) and how many of them mix in racial prejudice against humans (like Echtelion does).
Apropos of nothing: Boney, I noticed when I went to go double-check House names from Codex's rundown that the Player-Created Informational Posts threadmark now contains a link to @Parabola's spreadsheet summary of our library's contents (which I approve of wholeheartedly, it is a wonderful resource of which they should be proud), but the post in which it's presented is not itself Media threadmarked the way other infoposts generally are.
Partnership then, or whatever. I don't know what you're supposed to call it when two groups are cooperating together for mutual benefit, but whatever the term is, they are still treating us with respect and as an equal to be negotiated with, not as a child that's learned an amusing trick, and your attempt to detract from the point by quibbling over my word choice is tiresome.
I am using the word alliance to mean a political pledge of mutual support which we cannot give them as we have no political capital. I am also not sure if they have any respect for Mathidle as a person as opposed to the simple willingness to deal with her as a proxy for the project which might be very important.... or it might be a dud. I do not think we are going to get any more than formal courtesy unless and until we can actually deliver something.
Codex
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This is a general note, and should not be taken as a suggestion for something we should be doing immediately. However, if we want to maximise the efficiency of interactions with Isolationist Houses, then we've got two major options.
These are the major Gods of Laurelorn:
The Queen, House Filuan (Isha), Houses Maeglin (Atharti), Nienna (Morai-Heg), Tindomiel (Hekarti), Quendalmanliye, Mardil and Teleri (all Mathlann) are on our side, and they represent some of the most major gods of the pantheon. However, we lack Asuryan, Vaul and Hoethian support, and three of the Isha Houses are against us.
To acquire the most power as soon as possible, the best choices are House Malforric and House Miriel.
Malforric is self explanatory. They have two votes in the High Council or a vote and a tiebreaker, they control the military defences of the Ward of the Sun, which contains the capital of the Eonir. They dominate Asuryan worship and determine the state of the Festival of Games, giving them influence over the Champion, one of the Triumvir. They hold some of the greatest amounts of influence and power in the Laurelorn, second only to Marrisith.
Miriel, on the other hand, is an efficient choice simply because they have a complete monopoly over Vaul. Their control over the Vaul Priest-Smiths means that one of Laurelorn's most major gods is under the control of one house. The fact that their concerns are largely practical in nature is also an advantage.
There are other options for working through the Isolationist houses, but imo these two are probably the most bang for our buck. I'm pretty sure Malforric is going to be very, very, very hard to crack though.
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They are giving us one of their most powerful mages on credit. We have achieved nothing and they are willing to work for free until we achieve something—and their reward is the right to provide more mages to the project.
We have delivered nothing but vague promises about future deals and they are giving us everything right now. That goes far beyond "formal courtesy".
And what does "no political capital" even mean? We have the ear of the Empress, of two Dwarf Kings, of the Tsarvich and the Ice Court, and whilst we've never met him, we're politically aligned with and have the approval of the Elector Count of Middenheim as well, who is the most important human ally the Eonir have. We are drowning in political capital, and any house that wants connections to the outside world will be foolish to dismiss us.
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Codex
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Not just achieving something. They aren't willing to fight for a reward if we only managed to learn how to fix Waystones. They're only willing to get paid if we have overwhelming success in the form of entirely new Waystones, which we considered to be a huge stretch goal.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Are there religious or other entry rules that would preclude, say, golden-hued transhuman metal-mages from taking part...?
Are there religious or other entry rules that would preclude, say, golden-hued transhuman metal-mages from taking part...?
I got bad news on that one:
consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
Note his wording. "I win them". That's Asarnil tier 'Victory is assured' swagger, that apparently he can back up.Are there religious or other entry rules that would preclude, say, golden-hued transhuman metal-mages from taking part...?
Codex
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I have an idea of what it would look like, but the muse has been evading me so throughly on that concept for the longest time.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
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- Belgium
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Apart from what was already said, Johan isn't, you know, an citizen of Laurelorn. Or even an elf.Are there religious or other entry rules that would preclude, say, golden-hued transhuman metal-mages from taking part...?
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
It means the project moves, not the project ends. And if Lord Halatath doesn't come along because of it then we have to come up with a way to make them regret it.
As for Miriel being worried about Ulthuan goods, it might go beyond magic items and just refer to magically crafted items.
Mathilde is a Human that has brazenly set up shop in an ancient and prestigious House that would have voted against her coming here if they hadn't gone extinct while valiantly fighting in defense of this glorious and shining city they all live in. She brought three more Humans after a couple of days and has in rapid time (for an Elf) more than doubled that number. With Humans from, at this point, two different polities The hardcore isolationist base definitely see her as a symbol of the change they want to prevent. Her failure would prove them right.
Mayflies might die off fast, but they multiply fast as well. Look away and the next time you pay attention there is a gods damned swarm. And everyone knows that Humans are less like mayflies and more like locusts. Just look at the poor forest.
Wasn't the racist Hoeth House in favor of opening? I assume they see us as easily exploitable markets or are in some other way not worried about measly Humans doing any damage. Racism played straight instead of the fascist "these people are lesser than us in every way but also the greatest threat to our way of life".
Or a worshipper of Asuryan. I'm fairly sure that's a requirement to becoming Asuryan's Champion.