- Location
- Finland
I would not take seeing them in the same room together as anykind of evidence that they are separate people.
It is exactly the kind of joke Ranald would play.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
It is exactly the kind of joke Ranald would play.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
There's people who believe that?🤨
- Location
- Finland
There is a story being told of him doing so, so presumably yes.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It's Sartosa's foundational myth. Of course there are people who believe it. They're in Sartosa.
- Location
- Finland
And the story probably has spread with sailors to most of the old world to some extent.
Not everyone is going to believe it, but i suspect there is not insignificant amount of people who have heard the tale, and just accepted it as real because it sounds like a divine thing to do, and there is no reason to argue over it because it does not affect their lives one way or another.
Not everyone is going to believe it, but i suspect there is not insignificant amount of people who have heard the tale, and just accepted it as real because it sounds like a divine thing to do, and there is no reason to argue over it because it does not affect their lives one way or another.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Secretly
The only people who can refute the myth is the Cult of Manann, and the myth quite clearly tells people to give them gold, so they are probably not too keen to discount it, in case, you know, the pirates decide to start giving the gold to someone else.
I don't really care about the design aspect of these things all that much, but part of me does wonder what would happen if we flipped this around - if the quest was offered a really good deal on something, but the only reason that deal was being offered at all was because it was assumed we weren't able to fulfill it in a degree that made any difference? I bet that a lot of AP would be spent to ensure that production capacity was boosted to the nines and to ensure that obstacles in the way of supplying that capacity were removed.
I get that more waystones equals more good, but it does seem as though the main arguments for allowing the elves a freer hand are based on the assumption that Tindomiel acting in their own self interest won't have the sort of negative consequences that we can get on top of right now by constraining their hands a bit. I don't think that will seriously affect the outcome at the end of the project. Everyone wants less chaos, so if the project starts seeing results, it will be in everyone's interests to get involved. Tindomiel have given the quest what seems to be a seriously high price to get involved right now. I don't think it's necessary to pay it, and I think there may be a certain amount of overestimation going on of the urgency of doing so. Was there a reason it had to wait this long before they were offered a spot on the team? My impression is they were voted for because there was justification for spending votes on as many extra factions for the start of the waystone project as possible, and their house was next on the list, along with the hedgewise. There will be time to get more traditions involved as the project continues, surely.
I get that more waystones equals more good, but it does seem as though the main arguments for allowing the elves a freer hand are based on the assumption that Tindomiel acting in their own self interest won't have the sort of negative consequences that we can get on top of right now by constraining their hands a bit. I don't think that will seriously affect the outcome at the end of the project. Everyone wants less chaos, so if the project starts seeing results, it will be in everyone's interests to get involved. Tindomiel have given the quest what seems to be a seriously high price to get involved right now. I don't think it's necessary to pay it, and I think there may be a certain amount of overestimation going on of the urgency of doing so. Was there a reason it had to wait this long before they were offered a spot on the team? My impression is they were voted for because there was justification for spending votes on as many extra factions for the start of the waystone project as possible, and their house was next on the list, along with the hedgewise. There will be time to get more traditions involved as the project continues, surely.
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We will be able to recruit more groups in the future, but we recruited Tindomiel now for two reasons: one, we want their input and knowledge for the foundations action, and two, we want a major house involved with the project from the very beginning to prevent the council from changing their mind and kicking us out. We're getting both their expertise on the first major action of the project and political security. Any house would have done, really, but they have magical and divine insight, are not racist towards humans, and voted for interaction with the Empire, so we judged them to be the friendliest house to approach first.
Miriel (the Vaul house) would have been my backup choice, as swaying an isolationist house to our side would be quite a coup, but they can join later if we need their craftspeople and enchanters to actually make stuff for us, and they are still wary about losing their monopoly to Ulthuan via trade with Marienburg.
- Location
- Earth
- Location
- Oklahoma
[x] Plan how many people can actually read elf anyways?
[x] Plan Discretion Is The Watchword
[x] Plan Discretion Is The Watchword
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
The apocrypha tab is basically one giant mess that's constantly getting screwed up. The system does not seem to handle it well.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah, if this was An Elf Councilor Quest, I don't think this would be a problem. Yes, we'd have to put in effort and commit to helping out, but we'd probably be more concerned with it being a political investment. I mean, money isn't a concern for people at this level, long-term thinking is. Just as we spent 2000 gold just in furnishing our research spaces, they think it's worth the cost of, I guess to them it would be some AP.
If I were Isthien, I could be looking at the rest of the Laurelorn political landscape and see that effectively, the situation has been in a stalemate for a few turns, and that the scales are tipping towards needing to re-engage with our neighbors, and the other houses are scrambling to get on top of that. I'd definitely think, 'well shit, Mathilde convinced a Runelord to come along, and both House Miriel and Mardil are interested in dwarves so they'll want to keep a close eye on this; and I hear the Ward of Frost is getting in the research too...'
Questers would absolutely have FOMO and feel like they gotta get on that.
This is a really good point, given the way I think the elves engage with their gods, a magical theorists who leans towards the Hekartian mindset is likely to be almost uniquely capable of translating between the Hoethian/scientific tradition and the Hekartian/mystical ones, as such an elf is likely to embrace both approaches to looking at problems as appropriate.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
So, the actual relevant questions.
How much does having this house onboard increase our chances of getting to the point of producing new waystones?
And
Who, if offered a set of new waystones, would turn them down because they didn't like elves or elvish goddesses?
My answers are "quite a lot" and "no one", which really should explain why I see most of the objections as empty of content.
How much does having this house onboard increase our chances of getting to the point of producing new waystones?
And
Who, if offered a set of new waystones, would turn them down because they didn't like elves or elvish goddesses?
My answers are "quite a lot" and "no one", which really should explain why I see most of the objections as empty of content.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X][HOUSE] Yes
[X] Plan: Just the Heir
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly
[X] Plan: Just the Heir
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly
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We are trying to cast a wide net on figuring out waystones. Having more various traditions would be helpful. Grey lords seems to be more exotic than traditional elf mage.
When the Cult of Isha decides to make 20 new Waystones and redirect a quarter of the Empire's flow to their clubhouse and the Cult of Rhya decides to upstage them with 30 but neither of them can start stoning because they have to report it first, we'll be happy that uncle Istie got the legislative ball rolling early.
In this context, I'm less worried about the steep price/contribution balancing because he already provided invaluable perspective.
In this context, I'm less worried about the steep price/contribution balancing because he already provided invaluable perspective.
Is there a list anywhere of the current contributors? I'm pretty sure there was one but I can't remember how far back I'd have to look.
My feeling is that a more relevant question is something along the lines of 'Does having this house on board for the foundational action increase said chances?' To which I would say the answer is 'Yes, but only by a bit' as I believe we already have a contribution from the elven tradition so strictly in terms of the foundational action, I think the majority of the extra success chance comes from that. I agree that this house might make an excellent contribution overall, I just don't think it's necessary to make such concessions to get them on board right now, when the price to grab them later may give the project a better bargaining position.
My feeling is that a more relevant question is something along the lines of 'Does having this house on board for the foundational action increase said chances?' To which I would say the answer is 'Yes, but only by a bit' as I believe we already have a contribution from the elven tradition so strictly in terms of the foundational action, I think the majority of the extra success chance comes from that. I agree that this house might make an excellent contribution overall, I just don't think it's necessary to make such concessions to get them on board right now, when the price to grab them later may give the project a better bargaining position.
- Location
- Utrecht
The organizations information threadmark has them all
It's under the "Organisations" threadmark:
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
I'd note we've spent quite a lot of time and effort getting together a bunch of "different" traditions that we hope amount to more than the shared knowledge taught by Teclis under crunch conditions.
This is a magic user tradition separate to and older than all of the human traditions we have. I'm expecting that we could have ignored the colleges entirely, just grabbed this house, and cone out ahead for the trade.
We have literally no idea why the grey lords consider themselves separate from the other elven magic users. Until we know this, we don't have any real guesses as to what the grey lords don't know that this house might.
In short, I see a much larger difference between the grey lords and the followers of the hydra queen than I do between the jades and the brights. If it was worth bringing them in separately, it's almost assuredly the same thing with the elves.
Or a worse one. We don't know what would move the price up or down: I expect we'd have to pay more of the full value of the wages the closer we get to recruiting contracted builders instead of researchers. So I kinda see this as a chance to lock this in before the price goes up.
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Actually not really. We mostly got these specific orders involved (light and life ) because we think they have pre teclisian knowledge because of who they were before teclis came. Normal humans have build functioning waystones before without the help of elf's .
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
And this means that scraps of pre-elven traditions that added onto the origin network are somehow more likely to have variable information than an unbroken tradition from prior to the founding of the Tower of Hoeth?
I'm just saying I regard this one elf house as about 3-5 times more valuable in likely knowledge as any human tradition we have.
It feels a lot like people are in the mindset where they think we will succeed even if we turn this down. I am much more doubtful.
Why do you think it's unbroken? If they could build waystones they wouldn't need us. Like literally with your train of thought why did they ask us?
I'm not saying their not helpful but your putting too much stock into them. More then even they themselves would probably hold.