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I guess the fear is that Elrisse or Tochter is a hard-liner against unsanctioned magic users in the Empire. Or someone who might blab to a hard-liner within their own Order. And that they will think less of Mathilde for associating with them and involving them in something as important as this. And that they will make Mathilde's life hard politically back in Altdorf over this.

They could tell Dragomas. No idea what his stance is. Or they could tell no one outside the Light College and instead arrange to have the Hedgewise shadowed as they leave Laurelorn to go home and, if successful, raid the lot of them.

But again, I don't see them actually doing that even if it is technically possible. But just as a reminder, just like the Greys have an instinctive ease to see the lines of rules blurred and in scales of grey, full of useful loopholes that make the whole system work, the Lights are probably more inclined to think in the opposite direction, where hard truths and order is what makes the world make sense. Though maybe not, given how Elrisse explained her position in the Mira vs Alric conflict.
That's exactly my concerns about the inviting the Hedgewises for the Foundation. There's no plausible deniability, it's publicly walking over the Articles. We just have no idea how the other Imperial members of the Project will react.
I think we should recruit them somewhere in the future, but now is not the time.
 
[X] Plan Disregard WEBMAT, Acquire AP

I'd prefer to wait until next turn for the book mine, when we can get a celestial wizard down there.


I've given some thought to bringing in WEB-MAT members to the expedition.

Johann and Egrimm will have no problem in the darkness; Johann because he's blind, Egrimm because he has Eyes of Truth. Max can come if Egrimm casts Illuminate the Edifice.

Egrimm has Inspiration to help him be smart at stuff, but that's about it. The Golds' spells are far more suited to investigation. Breach the Unknown gives info on magic items, which is helpful in figuring out if an item is cursed or something. Law of Gold would neutralise magic items until we get them to a secure location, like a lead-lined chest. Law of Logic's pretty great for just about anything you can spend a minute on. Trial and Error's good for just about everything.

Law of Age can be applied to make mining far easier and generally help remove obstacles, but unfortunately, neither Gold has it. For someone who's learned the Art of the Pick to become a better pickaxe, it's especially disappointing that Johann lacks the spell.

In conclusion, while Max would be good to bring along, he needs Egrimm to come with him and Egrimm's not well suited to the investigation. It would be mostly a waste of a light wizard. As such, I think those two can stay home but Johann can come with us, because his spells are useful and the darkness is no bother to him.
 
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We literally have a Patriarch-approved, Articles-compatible excuse for Hedgewise involvement. It's perhaps less than 100% clean and official, but it's at least plausible deniability.
That excuse could see off direct trouble with our Patriarch, but it might not be well received by every Wizard who reports to different one, to whom they could always snitch.
 
Voting for a user. It means that whatever Jyn Ryvia is voting for, they will vote too. I sometimes vote pickle because i know he is reliable and bound to not pick stuff i dislike too much when i don't have time to engage in the thread.
Thanks for thr explanation. Also, the reminder.
[X] Jyn Ryvia
[X] picklepikkl

Forgot to put pickle in.

Also trying to send this post makes me want to tear my face off. Damn signal! My arms already hurt waving my phone in the air like a maniac.
 
What kinds of plots against us do your think we'll see, and what sort of defenses can we put in place?
If I'm looking to ruin Mathilde's day, the first thing that came to my mind was that we heard about imagery resembling Mathilde is being used around Haunted Hills to ward off undead, and the dwarfs kind of blew the whistle on her relationship with Ranald. If someone started leaving Mathilde-related symbols on the scene of prominent Protector-related crimes, she'd suffer rep damage even if she was half a continent away and had no way whatsoever to be involved.

How to prepare? The faith in Sylvania is being handled by a council which was set up by Kasmir and is already partnered with the EIC. From the perspective of a Sylvanian peasant, there is little difference between the patronage of a bog-diety and Mathilde.

Thus, I present . . . Project Enshrinement:

1) The Famine Games: Set up shrines to Mathilde that will hold a lottery to win EIC discount coupons every set amount of days. The "priests" would rig the game to more often end up with those in need, but not always, to avoid being exploited as a charity.

2) Escalate partnership with Ranald: The shrines would collect anonymous tips on resurging monsters, which would be forwarded to a shrine to the Protector as bounties.

3) Mystical approach: Codify Rite of Way as divine Lore of Mathilde rather than a Grey spell. We have the delivery mechanism, we have experience with large-scale mass-targeted divine-related artifact creation and we have CF aplenty to burn on power stones. The "shrines" would "bless" the wooden statuettes by connecting them to the distributing artifact as a targetting tag.

We might have to blow the great deed on imperial approval of attempted apotheosis, but it was gathering dust anyways ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
If I'm looking to ruin Mathilde's day, the first thing that came to my mind was that we heard about imagery resembling Mathilde is being used around Haunted Hills to ward off undead, and the dwarfs kind of blew the whistle on her relationship with Ranald. If someone started leaving Mathilde-related symbols on the scene of prominent Protector-related crimes, she'd suffer rep damage even if she was half a continent away and had no way whatsoever to be involved.

How to prepare? The faith in Sylvania is being handled by a council which was set up by Kasmir and is already partnered with the EIC. From the perspective of a Sylvanian peasant, there is little difference between the patronage of a bog-diety and Mathilde.

Thus, I present . . . Project Enshrinement:

1) The Famine Games: Set up shrines to Mathilde that will hold a lottery to win EIC discount coupons every set amount of days. The "priests" would rig the game to more often end up with those in need, but not always, to avoid being exploited as a charity.

2) Escalate partnership with Ranald: The shrines would collect anonymous tips on resurging monsters, which would be forwarded to a shrine to the Protector as bounties.

3) Mystical approach: Codify Rite of Way as divine Lore of Mathilde rather than a Grey spell. We have the delivery mechanism, we have experience with large-scale mass-targeted divine-related artifact creation and we have CF aplenty to burn on power stones. The "shrines" would "bless" the wooden statuettes by connecting them to the distributing artifact as a targetting tag.

We might have to blow the great deed on imperial approval of attempted apotheosis, but it was gathering dust anyways ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This feels like a story that ends with "and then the Witch Hunters burned her alive". There's no way any existing cult will approve this. There's even less way that any of the ECs will approve this. Great Deeds aren't omnipotent, they have limits, and it's impossible this is within them.
 
If I'm looking to ruin Mathilde's day, the first thing that came to my mind was that we heard about imagery resembling Mathilde is being used around Haunted Hills to ward off undead, and the dwarfs kind of blew the whistle on her relationship with Ranald. If someone started leaving Mathilde-related symbols on the scene of prominent Protector-related crimes, she'd suffer rep damage even if she was half a continent away and had no way whatsoever to be involved.
Let's be real here, if Mathilde-related imagery starts showing up around crime scenes in the Haunted Hills, what happens is either (a) it doesn't rise to the level of political attention that'd be relevant to us or (b) our close personal friend the Elector Countess of Stirland goes "hey Mathilde, you been doing any crimes in my hills lately?" and we go "no that would be ridiculous" and she goes "all right cool thanks" and it's not our problem any more. Perks of having your...personality cult?...develop in a backwater is that there's like no world in which anyone outside of Stirland gives a single solitary fuck about this scenario, especially if the Elector Countess vouches for our non-involvement.
 
Books on Hoeth or Verena would cover library science. It doesn't currently exist in a secular context.
I think we should get these so Mathilde has some resources to reference when planning out her library. On top of these two, I think books on Quinsberry and Valaya might be beneficial going by their mention here, though in the case of Quinsberry, books on him will automatically trickle in from the Genealogical Library. I don't believe there's any rolls involved with setting up KAU, but I think there would be a narrative benefit to having a large amount of books on bibliothecography.
 
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No. Pretty much everyone that speaks to her in Karag Nar does so in Reikspiel or Khazalid, and on the very rare occassion she has to speak to someone who doesn't speak either, there's always someone who can translate close at hand. Immersion works so well because it makes you use the language for everything you try to do, and that isn't the case for Tilean in Karag Nar.
So what you're saying is that among our many options for turn plans, the option:
[] Immerse yourself in the Tilean side of K8Ps and try to pick up the language, and see if you can't study the culture to better understand them.
is missing as an option?
:whistle:
 
What kinds of plots against us do your think we'll see, and what sort of defenses can we put in place?
1: Direct attacks by armies seem unlikely, especially in the earlier stages of the Project. Laurelorn is well-defended, Tor Lithanel even more and the Grey Lords are quite dangerous. The Eonir successfully survived for millennia and without allies against beastmen, now that Middeland can help them it should be able to continue doing so.

I guess an army of demons could appear right next to the city, but opening such a breach costs a lot of power and I can't see the Four doing that except in an emergency, or if we epically fail some critically important rolls.

2: Infiltration by cultists is another possibility. It could be for spying, sabotage or subverting the Project for their own ends.

Except for Slaanesh in Ulthuan and Nagaroth I never got the impression that Choas worship was that prevalent in elvish societies. I think it's unlikely that the janitors and basic personnel are at risk.

Now, concerning the senior members of the Project… Mathilde, Thorek and Athala (whatever the GL is named) are out, for obvious reasons, but potentially any of the others could be one (maybe not the Ice witch, she's also a priestess, but I'm not sure if it would be enough to exonerate her). There's not much else we can do about that, except keep our eyes open and trust Mathilde ´s natural paranoia. And continue watching Egrimm like hawks, of course.

3: political attacks on the various institutions and countries participating. I think that's the most likely Avenue of attacks, because it easier to pull of and less power intensive.

The Project is dependent on Eonir and Imperial politics. The pro-contact majority in the Council is very slim, so it would be relatively easier to convince some Houses to revert back to isolationism. Engineering incidents and falls-flag operations between Middenlanders and Eonir via cultists is a possibility, to seed distrust and isolate the Eonir (like the Druchii did for the War of the Beard).

Another possibility would be to cause an event that would cause widespread chaos in the Empire or divert its attention towards another matter. For example, worsening the Marienbourg situation till it explodes. Combined with another action it could amplify it or make it easier to do. Or metaphorically opening the door to a direct invasion of Laurelorn.

To prevent that, I'd recommend ingratiating ourselves with various Eonir Houses (both isolationists to convince them its good to open and openers to show them it's good to be open) and take them in the Project if they have relevant skills. We also should monitor from time to time the Middenland side of things and intervene if there's a big problem.
 
@Boney, is it indeed the Empire of Man? I thought that was a fan term borrowing from 40k rather than its actual name, which I believed was simply the Empire. EDIT: The wiki says it's sometimes called the Empire of Man, but for all I know that could be an error similar to Cor Dum.
I'm away from my PC for Easter, if someone hasn't chased this down by Tuesday remind me and I'll go digging.
 
That excuse could see off direct trouble with our Patriarch, but it might not be well received by every Wizard who reports to different one, to whom they could always snitch.

Who are they going to snitch too? Paranoth straight up told us to go "talk to the hedgewise in Ostermark, they might know something but wont speak to us" and Mira is too busy putting her own house in order to be bothered by some non-chaos magic users who literally have a Grey Lord Magister watching them.

I suppose Elrisse could send a letter to Alric, but if Alric tries anything we go to Dragomas and say "this washed up has-been is attempting to sabotage an important diplomatic project, please turn into a dragon and roar at him".
 
Keeping in mind that this is taking place in Laurelorn.
Its entirely legal for the Hedgewise to be here, so long as Laurelorn permits.

The Grey Patriarch has signed off on this, and the invitation stems from a Grey Lady Magister.
The acting Light Matriarch has signed off on the project, and Egrimm, Lord Magister of Light Order, would back Mathilde up.
The Jade Patriarch has signed off on the project and the Jade College is well aware of things like the Hedgewise, given their own turf and rites. Its understood that if they make a fuss about the Grey Order's grey dealings, there may be nosy parkers poking into Jade grey dealings. Which neither would because that'd be dumb.

The Kislevites couldn't give a damn, they'd be more concerned with the male wizards.

Laurelorn has no idea its even an issue.

Thorek would grumble about messy umgi business and leave it at that.

Suffice to say its a non-issue unless we intend to parade through the Empire announcing our collaboration with the Hedgewise.
 
Hmm... there are regular attempts to raid the New World for lizardy gold, so the Columbian Exchange has presumably occurred by now. So probably yes.
The Columbian Exchange may not've been necessary. As far as I can tell, Warhammer basically copies Lord of the Rings in making potatoes native to the Europe equivalent. Tomatoes might be native to the Old World too.
 
@Boney, is it indeed the Empire of Man? I thought that was a fan term borrowing from 40k rather than its actual name, which I believed was simply the Empire. EDIT: The wiki says it's sometimes called the Empire of Man, but for all I know that could be an error similar to Cor Dum.
Truly, time is cyclical. There was a brief thread discussion on this in November 2020. About four and a half thousand pages ago. It starts about here:
2nd edition seems to always use Doctor.

If we're getting into nitpicks, I've never been fond of the term "Empire of Man". I'm not aware of any published material that actually calls them that, and I find it undescriptive- unlike the Imperium, the Empire can't claim to represent all men- it doesn't even contain a majority of men in the Old World, let alone in the entirety of it- and it's not an empire solely of men, given that Halflings and Dwarfs have been involved since the beginning.

(also, I feel like it invites people to equate it with the Imperium, and I don't like that)
The TL;DR is that it's quest canon, but seems to largely be a fan term outside of that.

IRL Pizza is older than that, even if it was tomatoless at first.
Technically true, the word dates back a thousand years or so. But what we consider pizza today was invented in Naples after the introduction of tomatoes.
 
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Truly, time is cyclical. There was a brief thread discussion on this in November 2020. About four and a half thousand pages ago. It starts about here:

The TLD;DR is that it's quest canon, but seems to largely be a fan term outside of that.


Technically true, the word dates back a thousand years or so. But what we consider pizza today was invented in Naples after the introduction of tomatoes.
@Boney, is it indeed the Empire of Man? I thought that was a fan term borrowing from 40k rather than its actual name, which I believed was simply the Empire. EDIT: The wiki says it's sometimes called the Empire of Man, but for all I know that could be an error similar to Cor Dum.
Full disclosure, I have run into the term being used in official sources. Chaos books are the main place it pops up.

I still don't like it, but that's a separate thing.
 
Old World Armoury lists Chick Peas (2gc/lb), Lentils (1gc/lb), Chilis (67gc/lb) and Chocolate (67gc/lb) as "common trade goods", so tomatoes could be feasibly present in the old world—the first two originate from the fertile crescent, which does not have a clear analogue in Warhammer (Araby? The Darklands?), whilst the last two are from the Americas. This suggests a rather high diversity of foods present within the empire, either as native crops or (more likely) as imports.

For comparison, Wheat Berries are 1gc/lb, and Wheat Flour is 2gc/lb.
 
Old World Armoury lists Chick Peas (2gc/lb), Lentils (1gc/lb), Chilis (67gc/lb) and Chocolate (67gc/lb) as "common trade goods", so tomatoes could be feasibly present in the old world—the first two originate from the fertile crescent, which does not have a clear analogue in Warhammer (Araby? The Darklands?), whilst the last two are from the Americas. This suggests a rather high diversity of foods present within the empire, either as native crops or (more likely) as imports.

For comparison, Wheat Berries are 1gc/lb, and Wheat Flour is 2gc/lb.
I've found several mentions of potatoes when I went looking, but I was never able to find tomatoes.

Honestly, there's been literal millennia for crops to cross over, I don't see any reason to exclude tomatoes.
 
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