Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Adhoc vote count started by Elsecaller on Mar 28, 2022 at 12:59 PM, finished with 152 posts and 80 votes.
 
Ok I guess I didnt understand the Dutches situation. I thought she ask her daughter to overthrow her. Because her Way will force her to endless REVOLUTION, to break all traditions, make powerfull enemies and endanger the whole province with eventual rebelion against the empire. So to get out of it without it getting too ugly. She wants someone to start another real revolution against her as it is the only way to stop her.

Aka CRX has to repeat her mother's feat, but this time the enemy wont be Hui, it will be Cai.

And I thought that if Shenhua cultivated so quickly with narrow goal that would mean now there has to be there more flaws to get an advantage. We already know she cant stop herself from "topling thrones" and she cant raise her daughter normaly. (I mean she almost killed her) There is big chance there could be something like throwing another Hui corpse cultivator to some botomless pit and say "Look Dutchess, there is Hui in this bottomless pit, if you want to be sure to REVOLUTION his ass you would have to jump inside yourself and finish him..."

Believe me, if its a simple logic trap the Hui are massively better at it. They died.
kinda hard for them when her logic is founded with the specific purpose to get rid of them and everything they stand for.
 
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Ok I guess I didnt understand the Dutches situation. I thought she ask her daughter to overthrow her. Because her Way will force her to endless REVOLUTION, to break all traditions, make powerfull enemies and endanger the whole province with eventual rebelion against the empire. So to get out of it without it getting too ugly. She wants someone to start another real revolution against her as it is the only way to stop her.

This is roughly correct your not off. I believe you guys are just talking past each other a bit.
 
Like Yrs said, first part is correct in general if not the specific details but

And I thought that if Shenhua cultivated so quickly with narrow goal that would mean now there has to be there more flaws to get an advantage. We already know she cant stop herself from "topling thrones" and she cant raise her daughter normaly. (I mean she almost killed her) There is big chance there could be something like throwing another Hui corpse cultivator to some botomless pit and say "Look Dutchess, there is Hui in this bottomless pit, if you want to be sure to REVOLUTION his ass you would have to jump inside yourself and finish him..."

Just because she got there quickly does not mean her cultivation is narrow or prone to flaws. As far as we know she just somehow speed ran it and gathered the power at a staggering rate but would have still had to go through all the necessary steps which includes dealing with things like heart demons before they can break your way. She's been ruling for some 200 years now IIRC and hasn't fallen to any internal logical failure. Also just trying to get her to go into a pit after something probably wouldn't work. She has people she can delegate that too or she could just blow up the hole. Both literally and metaphorically.

Honestly there are two easier outcomes than "beating" Shenhua. Renxiang just has to prove herself more worthy for the Throne of Xiangmen / Throne of the Emerald Seas. So two alternative outcomes are:

1- Shenhua is convinced to fully lock into Ascension, so that she may better impact Glorious Revolution as soon as possible
2- Shenhua is convinced to be a full time advisor/ally to the Empress, and take Xia Ren along with the White Plumes as an auxiliary force without peer

I mean, beating her by showing that Renxiang is the better/more worthy ruler is exactly what she's planning. Not to mention CRX does not want to do a rebellion.

"That seemed to be her implication," Cai Renxiang admitted. "But I will not agree to this. I will not see the Emerald Seas razed in my 'victory' and that is the only thing war or rebellion could bring. Even if that is what she desires of me, she will not get it."

"Because I have seen what she is, and I am no longer an overawed child. The path to victory is to prove that I, that which I build is the way forward, and her methods the regression. Any conflict of ideals among Sovereign Cultivators is a battle of a kind, but it is here that I will make my stand, not with armies. If I cannot do this…. Then I am not fit to rule."

Now beating her may lead to her ascension but I don't think just talking to her to convince her to ascend is going to work. Essentially by CRX beating her and taking the throne and proving that CRX is correct it kind of proves Shenhua correct that revolution leads to progress. Anything less than that and I think Shenhua stays tied to this mortal realm.

As for the second I don't think Shenhua would settle for an advisor role and bringing the White Plumes anywhere that isn't the ES is just a political nightmare, especially if no one asks for it.
 
With regards to flaws, we have a fairly good indicator that some of her flaws are to her personal quality of life and long term viability as a human. These are not things you can exploit to crash her with the right words.
 
This is the part that stands out to me. Is the current system of cultivation, with red/yellow/green/etc levels, new? Or did this happen very long ago, and it took centuries or millennia for the white Bai to finally move against him?
Its the Imperial system and based on the colors of the spirit stones. Considering the highest spirit stones are only found in Celestial Peaks, its very old. Around the unification of the Empire, old.

The thing is, the Bai are still living in the bronze age, culturally speaking. They already had their own native terminology and do not associate colors with cultivation levels. They're naturally resistant to using the imperial standard notation except when talking to outsiders.
 
Compare the US not using the metric standard, even though the rest of the world is.

Also, the Bai associate colors with their caste system. The fact that White is both the highest caste, and the highest cultivation rank is a coincidence.
 
Its the Imperial system and based on the colors of the spirit stones. Considering the highest spirit stones are only found in Celestial Peaks, its very old. Around the unification of the Empire, old.

The thing is, the Bai are still living in the bronze age, culturally speaking. They already had their own native terminology and do not associate colors with cultivation levels. They're naturally resistant to using the imperial standard notation except when talking to outsiders.
Do we actually know for sure when the Empire standardized to the color names?
 
Sun Shao's cultivation clues:
Another:
Sun Shao breathed out harshly, scenting the blood that laid always on his breath.
He isn't Bai-enough to have visible snakelike characteristics, so perhaps this is a developed trait he's leaned into to try to make himself more snake/Bai-like, and his cultivation was already heavily tied into blood (his speech rhetoric also reflects this)
 
Do we actually know for sure when the Empire standardized to the color names?
According to Meizhen all the way back in Forge week 1
Old families such as mine have their traditions and terms for cultivation. The terms we are taught to use here are only a handful of centuries old. They were coined during the establishment of the current imperial dynasty."
Although right before that she refers to her own cultivation with a Bai term, so the Bai apparently still haven't switched over

Edit: as diomedan pointed out this changes between versions: on royal road Meizhan says millenia instead of centuries, which does line up better with the start of the Mu dynasty from the time-line, and makes it a much stronger statement that the Bai (and other families) still use their own terms
 
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"The terms we are taught to use here are only a handful of centuries old. They were coined during the establishment of the current imperial dynasty."

The Mu dynasty has been a thing for three and a half millenia at this point. The Bai change slowwwww
 
"The terms we are taught to use here are only a handful of centuries old. They were coined during the establishment of the current imperial dynasty."

The Mu dynasty has been a thing for three and a half millenia at this point. The Bai change slowwwww
I think it was likely more of an Emperor An thing when he began the major upgrades to the Great Sects, standardizing the terms within the Sects simply being by a part of his plan for greater imperial unification.

Still doesn't change that the Bai are stubborn, but let's not forget that the the Han and the Gu also have their own terms for the stages that differ from the Imperial Standard.
 
According to Meizhen all the way back in Forge week 1

Although right before that she refers to her own cultivation with a Bai term, so the Bai apparently still haven't switched over
Okay, so they definitely don't date back to the unification of the Empire like veekie was saying.
I think it was likely more of an Emperor An thing when he began the major upgrades to the Great Sects, standardizing the terms within the Sects simply being by a part of his plan for greater imperial unification.

Still doesn't change that the Bai are stubborn, but let's not forget that the the Han and the Gu also have their own terms for the stages that differ from the Imperial Standard.
The passage Orbmorb quoted specified that these changes happened at the start of the current imperial dynasty, so it's not one of An's reforms, though his Great Sect system has probably done a lot to spread the terminology.
 
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If I recall, that line was one of the changes from the Forge ->RR -> Published versions, so I don't know what the published version says about it (since Yrs was still working out the timeline at the beginning of Forge)
 
If I recall, that line was one of the changes from the Forge ->RR -> Published versions, so I don't know what the published version says about it (since Yrs was still working out the timeline at the beginning of Forge)
"Old families such as mine have their own traditions and terms for cultivation. The terms disciples are taught to use here are only a handful of millenia old. The standard terms were coined during the establishment of the current imperial dynasty."
The passage on Royal Road changed the wording from centuries to millennia, but the 'coined during the establishment of the current dynasty' bit is unchanged. Don't know if that'll change for the published version, but it looks like Yrsillar is being consistent as to when things happen in relation to other events, even if the precise number of years has been fiddled with.
 
Yes, the throne started pushing the color formulation for realms hard during the Mu Dynasty.

In less pleasant news, today has been very busy for RL reasons, and the chapter outline is looking a bit hefty. I'm going to have to say I'm delaying this one till friday.
 
Turn 14: Arc4-11
"Let's keep a focus on the local field." said Ling Qi, and Xia Lin nodded crisply.

"Your plan for engagement?" she asked.

"I've been writing to a few individuals recently." explained Ling Qi. "One of them is here. Her name is-"

"Mei Lanfen. She's a senior administrator for a major school in the trunk districts," Sixiang helpfully supplied.

"-Mei Lanfen." she repeated.

"The Mei." mused Xia Lin. "I'm not familiar. A minor family?"

Ling Qi nodded smartly, as if she was not being briefed on the family right now with a rapid-fire stream of thought from Sixiang. She turned toward the room proper, scanning the clumps of people for the right set of colors and symbols. Xia Lin followed after her, weaving deeper into the gathering audience of the auction.

"We've only just begun to talk. I understand she is the senior administrator at a civil service school in the trunk," said Ling Qi, relaying Sixiaing's helpfully remembered information. She didn't know how other people managed without such a helpful spirit.

"Aw, you're making me blush." chuckled Sixiang.

"Ah, I recall hearing some news of those," said Xia Lin. "They began to pop up along with the changes made to exam requirements. Clerks need to come from somewhere, I suppose."

"I guess so," Ling Qi said absently.

"Five meters and sixty-five degrees left - the granny in blue." whispered Sixiang.

Her target spoke first as they approached. "Oh, Lady Ling! I wondered if I would encounter you here."

Ling Qi was unsurprised. She had doubted she would be the only one looking.

Mei Lanfen was an old woman with a kindly appearance. Her steel grey hair was drawn back in a bun and her features bore more creases and wrinkles than usual for a cultivator, making her seem like a mortal in her late fifties or so. She was quite short, no taller than Suyin, and wore a simple but elegantly-cut blue gown.

Her qi felt like aged paper and fresh ink, and Ling Qi judged her cultivation somewhere in the fourth realm.

"Well, when I saw your name on the guest list, I thought it would only be polite to greet you in person." said Ling Qi, tipping her head in respect. "Thank you for writing back to me."

"I'm always pleased to help a young lady learn," responded Mei Lanfen, inclining her head as well. "And is this the other host?"

"This is Xia Lin of the White Plumes, recently placed under my Lady's command." explained Ling Qi, gesturing to her companion.

"My pleasure, Madam Mei," said Xia Lin, bowing a little lower. "Lady Ling is doing me some kindness in introducing me to those present."

"I am sure a girl of your talent will have little trouble." said Mei Lanfen. "To be assigned to the heiress, you must be exceptional."

"Madam Mei is kind." replied Xia Lin.

"Xia Lin is modest." added Ling Qi. "But I admit, I am a little overwhelmed here at the capital as well."

"Xiangmen will do that," the old woman chuckled. "Nowhere else in the province do so many people gather. It is a heavy task, attending to their needs."

"I can only imagine." acknowledged Ling Qi. "You mentioned your position, but how does it work? Is your school a training facility for one of the ministries?"

"The Gold Autumn School is not so prestigious. We are only a preparatory school, without government sanction or funding." explained Mei Lanfen. "We offer to teach young men and women the necessary skills for entry into the ministries. Reading, writing, ethics, and some limited cultivation tutorials."

"Really? That must be expensive." said Ling Qi. "Don't people's families teach those things?"

"Those that can," said Mei Lanfen. "I will admit, the endeavor is not profitable, but old folks such as myself and my partners must spend our saved stones on something, yes? Spreading education and low cultivation among mortals is an unalloyed good."

"That is most charitable of you." said Xia Lin, studying the woman more closely.

"It is. How do you choose your students?" Ling Qi asked curiously.

"The Gold Autumn has subsidiary institutions among the mortal districts in the trunk. These schools are for younger children, and allow us to pick out the exceptional and talented for the primary institution. It is a little crude, but we pick up many minor talents this way," replied Mei Lanfen.

"Something a bit like the Great Sects?" asked Xia Lin.

"Nothing so grand. Great talents such as Lady Ling and others detected by the Ministry of Integrity are beyond our small means to support, but even awakening at all is a boon to a mortal's health and productivity, isn't it?"

"It is," Ling Qi replied, thinking back to those first days at the Sect when even a guttering spark of qi and a few exercises made her feel superhuman.

"Most people cannot accomplish more and some cannot even accomplish that, but I think it is nonetheless worthwhile." said Mei Lanfen. "We are all the better for it. While it does make some of my students restless and adventuresome, there are those that chafe a bit at the provincial ministries."

Ling Qi met the woman's eyes. Kind, yes, but not without cunning. "The frontier is dangerous and it will be some time before we require proper district ministries, but if you have recommendations for individuals who might find that situation agreeable I will convey them to Lady Cai."

"I will talk to some of my old students. It is not a common opportunity, even if it requires a harder constitution than most." the old woman chuckled.

"Of course. Keep in mind Lady Cai will likely have strict expectations on their character as well." Ling Qi said carefully. "I won't impugn the honor of your school, but Lady Cai will need only the most upstanding to set up the seeds of her ministries."

Option for fief development added.

Mei Lanfen chuckled. "I have knelt under her Grace's light, you know? I understand the primacy of virtue in building anew. Skills may be taught, talent shored up with dogged effort and work, but an understanding of virtue is not so easy to instill."

Xia Lin looked the old woman over in surprise. "You were a member of the Ministries when her Grace took control?"

One of the old woman's half-closed eyes opened a little wider, a sharp golden glint flashing in the dim interior light. "I was a hard-headed girl, even back then. Under the old Directors and Ministers back, I don't doubt my stubbornness would have kept me in the lowest rank of the Ministry of Commerce all my life."

"I see," Ling Qi said slowly, understanding the implication.

"You worked under the Feng, then?" Xia Lin said cautiously. "That must have been troubling."

"It was, and her grace was not forgiving." Mei Lanfen agreed.

"I have been in her Grace's presence, it is not easy." Ling Qi contributed.

"Have you? Have you felt her Law, burning away every rationalization and self-deception, every little lie you have ever told yourself, until there is only raw truth squirming under the examiner's furious light?" Mei Lanfen asked.

Ling Qi blinked. The old woman didn't seem to be boasting, or showing anything but curiosity.

"...Her grace has not subjected me to such close scrutiny," Ling Qi admitted. "I- What is that like?"

"It was not so bad when you have only small vices, small lies to expose - though I think it would have driven me mad to stay under it for too long. A person is not meant to see themselves and all they have done so starkly." Mei Lanfen explained absently, tapping her cane against the floor thoughtfully. "But… I saw the Minister, at the end, you know. After everything, all the crimes and cruelties and corruption exposed, do you know what she asked him?"

"I can't imagine," said Xia Lin with a frown.

"What do you regret?" Mei Lanfen said.

"...And his answer?" Ling Qi asked, morbidly curious.

There was a twinkle of dark humor in the old woman's half-closed eyes. "He about chewed his tongue bloody trying to give the answer he thought she wanted. But to him they were lies, and so he could not speak them. In the end, he simply said 'angering you, your Grace'."

"Hmph. A pathetic man." sneer Xia Lin. "Xiangmen is improved by the absence of such."

"Oh, yes." Mei Lanfen agreed cordially. "That is why I work so hard to instill civic duty and empathy among my students, to catch the little lies they may tell themselves and ensure they do not grow into big ones."

Ling Qi blew out a breath. The sad thing was that, stripped of everything and facing the same punishment, a few years ago she might have given a similar answer. To regret nothing, save that consequences were upon you… She hoped she was not that person any longer, and did not want to have such regrets in the first place.

You could twist and shape truth, but it did no good to forget that there were truths. That way lay the degeneration of the Hui.

Truth I advances to Truth II

To call all truths subjective can only bring ruin.


"Well, that's enough of such grim topics. Miss Mei, I'm a little out of my depth here - would you do us the favor of introducing us to some of the worthies attending?" asked Ling Qi, breaking the brief contemplative silence.

"Yes... yes. I can think of a few faces you should be familiar with here in Xiangmen." the old woman said, beckoning them on. "This way."

Ling Qi and Xia Lin followed after, chatting quietly as Mei Lanfen introduced them to other members of the court clans and a few 'independent' ministry members in Xiangmen. Speaking to them reinforced Ling Qi's opinion that the politics of the city were still in flux, unsettled. There was no-one (save the Duchess herself) who could afford to be domineering, whose position was so secure that they could be arrogant about it here among their peers.

It was an interesting juxtaposition to the air of stubborn normalcy she had felt in the wealthiest districts on her stroll - two sides of one coin.

Soon the auction itself was underway, and socializing slowed down as Ling Qi observed item after item going up. Even the least of them sold for multiple green stones. It made the part of her that still wished to hoard and scrimp want to scream, so much wealth flowing like water.

But all the same, it was wealth flowing to her, so she couldn't be too unsettled. Between rounds, she and Xia Lin were asked questions about the recovery of the artefacts. They shared anecdotes of the fight, the dungeon, and the clever reversal of the trap upon the living spiders.

Ling Qi found that there was little reticence toward her here - if only because everyone was just a little grasping and ambitious, and neither she nor lady Cai had failed yet. They were on the bleeding edge of something new, and in Xiangmen that had cachet. She didn't doubt that it would evaporate like morning mist if their efforts ended in failure, though.

City of Xiangmen added to regional opinions. Value set to 2

Their auction took most of the morning and, even with Xia Lin taking the larger share, Ling Qi had to work to keep her expression neutral as she took in just how much wealth she had gained today. Between this and the payment from the Meng, she would have enough to pursue a great many projects that new settlements couldn't dream of normally. Even setting aside cultivation funding for herself, Yu Nuan, her Mother and any among her staff who could cultivate, it was an immense amount. She could easily even set aside Sect tuition for Biyu right now and not be inconvenienced if she wished.

She could see that Xia Lin looked a little dazed by the amount as well. She was glad that Cai Renxiang would handle the logistics of storing and maintaining this small fortune until Ling Qi had time to understand it better.

Still, by the time their lots were sold they were still in conversations with attendees, and Ling Qi was curious to see what else went through the auction houses - so they stayed awhile. She had just gained so much, after all. Perhaps something would catch her eye. A present for a friend, maybe?

[ ] A beautifully illuminated book written and illustrated by an artist who had risen from the rootways and become an Elder of the Blue Mountain Sect (Gift for Xuan Shi Unlocks Isolation Boosting Personal action)

[ ] A set of notes and a disassembled puppet of ivory and wood reclaimed from an abandoned workshop after its owner passed away with no next of kin. (Gift for Li Suyin, Unlocks Creation Boosting personal action)

[ ] A set of recordings made recently in Xiangmen itself, you don't know the name of the rising star touted, but perhaps someone more embedded in the 'scene' would? (Gift for Bao Qian. Unlocks Expression boosting personal action.
 
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[ ] A beautifully illuminated book written and illustrated by an artist who had risen from the rootways and become an Elder of the Blue Mountain Sect (Gift for Xuan Shi Unlocks Isolation Boosting Personal action)

My boy needs screen time. Given that he's best boy and we can swing this into getting him to come with us, it is objectively the best option.
 
Either of these is fine.

[ ] A set of notes and a disassembled puppet of ivory and wood reclaimed from an abandoned workshop after its owner passed away with no next of kin. (Gift for Li Suyin, Unlocks Creation Boosting personal action)

[ ] A set of recordings made recently in Xiangmen itself, you don't know the name of the rising star touted, but perhaps someone more embedded in the 'scene' would? (Gift for Bao Qian. Unlocks Expression boosting personal action.
 
i like Mei Lanfan, she is a cool old lady teaching kids to read and write.
She could also get blasted by Shenhua's Light and not die, which is impressive.

[ ] A set of notes and a disassembled puppet of ivory and wood reclaimed from an abandoned workshop after its owner passed away with no next of kin. (Gift for Li Suyin, Unlocks Creation Boosting personal action)
 
[X] A set of notes and a disassembled puppet of ivory and wood reclaimed from an abandoned workshop after its owner passed away with no next of kin. (Gift for Li Suyin, Unlocks Creation Boosting personal action)

Creation and Suyin in the same option? Sign me up, please. The recordings are good also.

[X] A set of recordings made recently in Xiangmen itself, you don't know the name of the rising star touted, but perhaps someone more embedded in the 'scene' would? (Gift for Bao Qian. Unlocks Expression boosting personal action.
 
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[ ] A set of recordings made recently in Xiangmen itself, you don't know the name of the rising star touted, but perhaps someone more embedded in the 'scene' would? (Gift for Bao Qian. Unlocks Expression boosting personal action.

We've got plenty of money now, maybe we could invest in Bao Qian's business. It would be a good gift to bring up the subject.
 
[X] A set of notes and a disassembled puppet of ivory and wood reclaimed from an abandoned workshop after its owner passed away with no next of kin. (Gift for Li Suyin, Unlocks Creation Boosting personal action)
 
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