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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[X] [GREY] Scouting the forest with the krugs
[X] [GOLD] Patrolling the path with the city rotas
[X] [ICE] Guarding the forest rotas as they expand and fortify the path

While I'm sold on Johann @ patrols, there's also an argument to be made that the closest thing in the Tzar's understanding would probably be a priest of Dazh so we could make a positive impression to separate Colleges from Witches in his mind.
 
[X] [GREY] Scouting the forest with the krugs
[X] [GOLD] Patrolling the path with the city rotas
[X] [ICE] Guarding the forest rotas as they expand and fortify the path
 
[X] [GREY] Patrolling the path with the city rotas
[X] [GREY] Standing ready to respond with the Tzar and Boyars
[X] [GOLD] Guarding the forest rotas as they expand and fortify the path
[X] [ICE] Guarding the forest rotas as they expand and fortify the path

I don't think this is the point where we should practice our scouting, pretty sure there are classes for that. And Mathilde being more likely to survive than your run-of-the-mill kislevite scout isn't really material to my worry.
 
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Mopman43 said:
Mathilde is tougher than any other scout, and faster than any other scout.

She is dramatically more likely to survive first contact with the enemy and make it back to report.
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They are scouting within horn range though. If the scouts can blow their horn, they have done their jobs.

The plan is not about finding the enemy and fighting them in their own ground. It's to put them into a situation where they either have to show themselves or let us advance through the forest unopposed and lift the siege. Protecting the lumberjacks would make at least make some tactical sense even if it's risky scouting is much more dangerous for little more gain.

And while Mathilde is thougher than most, she's also a much jucier target. And while we might be able to ressurect if we are killed amongst people to support us, if we are killed alone or with a small group, I strongly doubt the enemy will give us the chance to walk away even if we ressurect.

And there are better times to learn scouting than in an unfamilliar environnement, on a battlefield where the enemy will likely be looking for us and prioritising our elimination. We would have been better suited to scout earlier, now it's too late for us to be more useful than we would be elsewere in my opinion.

I mean, what do people even hope from a scouting action right now the only thing I can see is assassination of enemy officiers and we are not in the best position to try that on this terrain against those enemies. Especialy not now when they'll be on the lookout.
 
Sparsebeard said:
If we want to train scouting, let's go hunt some beastmen with real experts... we are amongst the few humans with Wood Elves contacts that would probably be willing to teach us.
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Not to raise the dread specter of the eternal "are we ready for Elfcation" debates but I do think we probably ought to get a bit more baseline competence under our belt before asking the Eonir for scouting lessons. We haven't even finished the first level of the skill yet.
 
Sparsebeard said:
They are scouting within horn range though. If the scouts can blow their horn, they have done their jobs.

The plan is not about finding the enemy and fighting them in their own ground. It's to put them into a situation where they either have to show themselves or let us advance through the forest unopposed and lift the siege. Protecting the lumberjacks would make at least make some tactical sense even if it's risky scouting is much more dangerous for little more gain.

And while Mathilde is thougher than most, she's also a much jucier target. And while we might be able to ressurect if we are killed amongst people to support us, if we are killed alone or with a small group, I strongly doubt the enemy will give us the chance to walk away even if we ressurect.

And there are better times to learn scouting than in an unfamilliar environnement, on a battlefield where the enemy will likely be looking for us and prioritising our elimination. We would have been better suited to scout earlier, now it's too late for us to be more useful than we would be elsewere in my opinion.

I mean, what do people even hope from a scouting action right now the only thing I can see is assassination of enemy officiers and we are not in the best position to try that on this terrain against those enemies. Especialy not now when they'll be on the lookout.
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She is a teleporting, resurrecting lord with a horse that ignores terrain and an anti-magic belt. If that is not enough to scout in the company of actual scouts then I think we should resign ourselves to never setting foot in a forest in our lives.
 
[X] [GREY] Investigate Boyar Kalashinivik
[X] [GOLD] Guarding the forest rotas as they expand and fortify the path
[X] [ICE] Patrolling the path with the city rotas

Not likely to win at all, but may as well vote.
 
Kind of disappointed no one seems to have had any good write-in ideas. I've been a bit busy and unable to read the thread much, but what about going after the wood elf spirits directly rather than just supporting the military?

@Boney would some version of:

[] Hunt the spirit allies of Athel Loren

be acceptable? Not sure exactly how it would be phrased, but basically using magic sight to look for any big spirits and target them first before they can be brought into the battle between armies.
 
[x] [GREY] Investigate Boyar Kalashinivik
[x] [GOLD] Scouting the forest with the krugs
[x] [GOLD] Standing ready to respond with the Tzar and Boyars
[x] [ICE] Patrolling the path with the city rotas
 
DragonParadox said:
She is a teleporting, resurrecting lord with a horse that ignores terrain and an anti-magic belt. If that is not enough to scout in the company of actual scouts then I think we should resign ourselves to never setting foot in a forest in our lives.
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That's well enough... until you consider the opposition.

We are trying to scout out Wood Elves (or Wood Spirits I guess, not sure this makes it better) in the forest with basic scouting proficiency. Even, if the scouts with us are good, I doubt they are good enough to scout the enemy before they see us. And if the Athel Lauren commander has the choice of who to take out first between mundane scouts or the beacon of Uglu that we are...

All those advantages you mentionned won't be very useful if we are struck first with overwhelming force, a bit like we did against Alberich. There is an insane advantage to striking first, especially if your opponent hasn't even noticed you yet.

Sure we have advantages that make it possible, maybe even likely to survive a first strike especially if the opponet doesn't go all in from the start. But it's betting on the enemy's incompetence and/or luck.

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And I wouldn't say that if we choose not to scout the most difficult enemy to scout in a forest in a situation where they'll be looking for us means we shouldn't scout forest ever.

Preferably though, I'd rather have a Wood Elf friend and/or some training before scouting a forest. And I wouldn't mind less deadly, prepared and competent opponents.
 
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DragonParadox said:
She is a teleporting, resurrecting lord with a horse that ignores terrain and an anti-magic belt. If that is not enough to scout in the company of actual scouts then I think we should resign ourselves to never setting foot in a forest in our lives.
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I can live with never setting foot in evil forest-spirit infested forests. Athel Loren sucks anyway.

Or we could practise with the not-evil forest-spirits about how to sneak past forest spirits when we get back. For all that Mathilde is very good at stealth, she's also still got a long way to go. How to hide from mage sight is another point.
 
Briefvoice said:
Kind of disappointed no one seems to have had any good write-in ideas. I've been a bit busy and unable to read the thread much, but what about going after the wood elf spirits directly rather than just supporting the military?

@Boney would some version of:

[] Hunt the spirit allies of Athel Loren

be acceptable? Not sure exactly how it would be phrased, but basically using magic sight to look for any big spirits and target them first before they can be brought into the battle between armies.
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That's valid, but it might be a good to be a bit more specific. Do you mean the local spirits of the woods, or do you mean the category of 'Forest Spirits' that includes things like Dryads and Treemen?
 
[X] [GREY] Scouting the forest with the krugs
[X] [GOLD] Patrolling the path with the city rotas
[X] [ICE] Guarding the forest rotas as they expand and fortify the path
 
Sparsebeard said:
That's well enough... until you consider the opposition.

We are trying to scout out Wood Elves (or Wood Spirits I guess, not sure this makes it better) in the forest with basic scouting proficiency. Even, if the scouts with us are good, I doubt they are good enough to scout the enemy before they see us. And if the Athel Lauren commander has the choice of who to take out first between mundane scouts or the beacon of Uglu that we are...

All those advantages you mentionned won't be very useful if we are struck first with overwhelming force, a bit like we did against Alberich. There is an insane advantage to striking first, especially if your opponent hasn't even noticed you yet.

Sure we have advantages that make it possible, maybe even likely to survive a first strike especially if the opponet doesn't go all in from the start. But it's betting on the enemy's incompetence and/or luck.
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I do not think overwhelming force in that way is in the cards when meeting one army with another , I think the risk assessment for 'when will we be able to treat a fey host of Athel Loren the way we did a mildly lucky mutant' is 'never' and to try to wait for that... well we might as well have gone home after we talked to the Hedgewise

BurnNote said:
I can live with never setting foot in evil forest-spirit infested forests. Athel Loren sucks anyway.

Or we could practise with the not-evil forest-spirits about how to sneak past forest spirits when we get back. For all that Mathilde is very good at stealth, she's also still got a long way to go. How to hide from mage sight is another point.
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That sounds cripplingly boring... and actually crippling to the army we have in front of us to let them go in with only mundane scouts.
 
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henkalv said:
I don't think this is the point where we should practice our scouting, pretty sure there are classes for that. And Mathilde being more likely to survive than your run-of-the-mill kislevite scout isn't really material to my worry.
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List of classes:
Boney said:
Study: As a Magister, you're no longer barred from returning to the Grey College. If you've been pulling your weight for the Order, you can return to it to further your studies. Each costs 1 College Favour or 100gc.

Practical
[ ] Intrigue and Tradecraft.
[ ] The Use and Creation of Poison
[ ] Spells of Grey Magic (teachers' choice; multiple spells)
[ ] Spells of Grey Magic (your choice; one spell)
[ ] Swords and Swordplay
[ ] Ritual Magic
[ ] Psychology
[ ] Imperial Law
[ ] Practical Diplomacy
[ ] Physiology and autopsy

Advanced
[ ] Assassination
[ ] Infiltration
[ ] Interrogation

Theory
[ ] The Nature of Ulgu
[ ] The Nature of Magic
[ ] The Enemies of Man
[ ] The Allies of Man
[ ] Religion and the Empire
[ ] The Empire and its Provinces
[ ] Human Nations of the Old World
[ ] Chaos and Chaos Gods

Extracurricular
[ ] Enchantment
[ ] Staff turning
[ ] Potions and Alchemy
[ ] Power Stones and their Creation
[ ] Runes and Runecraft
[ ] Wyrdstone Containment
[ ] On the Education of Apprentices
[ ] Searching for and Identifying Animal Familiars
[ ] The Creation of Artificial Familiars
[ ] Waystones and Waystone maintenance
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There is no 'scouting' class, unless you're thinking of Infiltration, in which case Mathilde already has Advanced Infiltration and is (1/4) to Master. Incidentally, Mathilde scouting Karagril was what brought her up to Advanced Infiltration in the first place.
 
DragonParadox said:
I do not think overwhelming force in that way is in the cards when meeting one army with another , I think the risk assessment for 'when will we be able to treat a fey host of Athel Loren' the way we did a mildly lucky mutant is 'never' and to try to wait for that... well we might as well have gone home after we talked to the Hedgewise
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I'm not saying we'll ever be able to target Wood Elves (or forest spirits) the same way we did Alberich.

I'm saying if we scout, WE might be targeted the same way we targeted Alberich. And just like us he was VERY resilient and confident... our first strike still dealt devastating damage and had a good chance to outright destroy him. I wouldn't be surprised if our current enemy has ways to inflict a devastating first strike too.
 
[X] [GREY] Scouting the forest with the krugs
[X] [GOLD] Patrolling the path with the city rotas
[X] [ICE] Guarding the forest rotas as they expand and fortify the path
 
Sparsebeard said:
I'm not saying we'll ever be able to target Wood Elves (or forest spirits) the same way we did Alberich.

I'm saying if we scout, WE might be targeted the same way we targeted Alberich. And just like us he was VERY resilient and confident... our first strike still dealt devastating damage and had a good chance to outright destroy him. I wouldn't be surprised if our current enemy has ways to inflict a devastating first strike too.
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I mean OK, we might be targeted, but targeted the same way? Did the random forest spirits spend weeks studying Mathilde, her powers and her character? Is she alone as he was at the end? I do not doubt that fey are scary in the woods, but we are still hands down the best scout the army has and unless we want the whole army to risk running into that devastating first strike it would be prudent of us to give that aid we can
 
DragonParadox said:
She is a teleporting, resurrecting lord with a horse that ignores terrain and an anti-magic belt. If that is not enough to scout in the company of actual scouts then I think we should resign ourselves to never setting foot in a forest in our lives.
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The thread keeps doing this weird thing where it keeps assuming Mathilde is weak or otherwise vulnerable. Remember that back in her journeyman years she was the second most powerful person in Stirland, and only some of that was positional power—she was throwing around a fair bit of personal power too, and she's only gotten stronger since then.

Mathilde can survive the scouting—this isn't like that one time she trapped herself in a closed room with 50 angry orcs (which I feel compelled to point out that she also survived and ran away from).

She's in a forest, supporting scouts, whilst the main army creates an existential threat to the forest spirits behind her.

Worst thing that happens is a treeman takes a swing at her, she retreats, and the Ice Witches Frozone the treeman.

What's most likely to happen is the forest spirits try to blow past the scouts to hit the loggers, scouts fall back and report it, and the Tsar sends his reinforcements to whatever part of the road the spirits are targeting.
 
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