Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] Hag Witches
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
-
- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Boris has a certain charisma about him:
He told us that there is nothing he would not make happen if it means more Kislev and less Chaos, and I fully believe him.
Look. There are 3 things I've seen that human magic users can bring to the table for this project. There is building(repairing as a start and actually making waystones at a stretch), channeling(making sure the energy flow is working properly and safely harnessing that energy at a stretch), and troubleshooting(finding vulnerabilities to be protected and flipping back corrupted waystones at a stretch).
The college answer to these problems is White, Jade, and Brown in that order. The Whites because their college functions as a waystone so they can obviously build one if not necessarily as well as the elves. The Jades who are openly already preforming the function of channeling. The Browns for their familiarity with herd stones due to the beastman-Ghur connection and the fact we can't bring anyone with actual experience attacking waystones on to the project.
You are speculating, without solid proof, that the Ice witchs can do something that we already know the Jades can do, and ignoreing that the Hags are their Browns when we have no Brown support for the project.
Don't get me wrong I'd rather bring a college in, but that won't get support so we might as well go for the group that will bring something new instead of the group that might shore up what we have.
Edit: going to work.
I think you are making some wild leaps of logic here Hags are not 'their browns', yes obviously they deal with beastmen, everyone who lives in a mostly wooded area deals with beastmen that does not mean they have any particular insight into herdstones, much less that said (unproven) insight then leads to insight into waystones. What we know from the prince is such:
- The stone was made by elves
- The stone glows white during blizzards,
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
He said there was a stone underneath the palace that grows white during blizzards. He didn't even know what it was for. He certainly didn't know if it was made by Elves. Could been made by humans for all we know.
EDIT: I want to make it clear, I do think the stone is likely made by Elves. I'm just pointing out that Boris did not say that and would not have known it.
Last edited:
[X] Tsarevich Boris Bokha
Less favor but perhaps a broader view.
Less favor but perhaps a broader view.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
It's more likely their College was build with the help of Teclis, just like the Grey College and his pocket dimension.
- Location
- Brazil
[X] Tsarevich Boris Bokha
For the simple reason that I really, really liked the sheer fire in his eyes back when we talked.
For the simple reason that I really, really liked the sheer fire in his eyes back when we talked.
- Pronouns
- Human/Form/Keyblade
[X] Tsarevich Boris Bokha
He could give us a paper that says "This person is qualified to deal with this shit". If the Boyar isn't on best terms with the Ice Witches for example, or spellcasters in general, then that would go a long way to smooth things over.
Also, if the Waystone is really used to anchor the Ice Wing of the Palace, then the Witches might consider it part of their secrets and never let us see it, especially with an Ice Witch empress in office. In contrast, Boris could let us see it right now, or even interact with it if we find out that magic really is being siphoned and make a good case to him.
Why not? I'm not an expert, but I suspect diplomatic procedure is top down, especially for urgent matters, because delegating stuff is always easier than escalating it. To illustrate my point:
Excellent idea, an Arabian spellcaster going to the Elector Count/ess of Stirland to directly offer their services sounds brilliant.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Canon lore says that the Ice Wing exists only when an Ice Witch Tzarina is in power and dissolves when there isn't one, likely indicating that they're maintaining it. I'm pretty sure the Waystone doesn't have much to do with it, since it's a thing that keeps existing past the reign of any particular Tzarina.
- Location
- California
[x] Tsarevich Boris Bokha
Why is it urgent? I mean yes Drycha is evil, but she is not inherently corrupting by her very nature. It is going to be rather hard to argue with Boyar BigHill the Third that you really needed to go over his head and get the throne involved because there is... a scary tree woman somewhere in the woods
- Location
- France
[X] Hag Witches
You are travelling deeper into the Shirokij Forest, to offer your services to the local atamans and their resident Hag Witches.
You are travelling deeper into the Shirokij Forest, to offer your services to the local atamans and their resident Hag Witches.
It is it s secret it will be a secret no matter when we want to visit. I do not think Boris can make the ice witches give up magical secrets at the drop of a hat, though he might be able to do it with weeks or months of prep work.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Tsarevich Boris Bokha
Since I think all options have some merit I decided to lay out all the relevant factors as I understand them. All of this is my opinion, of course.
WAYSTONE LORE:
Tsarevich: In theory, Boris can get us Ice Witches and Hag Witches, as he promised us both when we considered basing the project in Kislev. On the other hand, now that the project is not in Kislev he may be less willing to make concessions to the Ice Witches, which he implied would be necessary for their cooperation. I also think the langauge he used regarding the Hag Witches implies he intends to browbeat them into cooperating, and forcing magic users to work for you is probably not a great idea - just ask Alric.
Ice Witches: Ice Witches almost certainly have Waystone lore. The only concern is that is might be very region specific, as the Waystones in Kislev seem different than those in the Empire, possibly due to Ancient Widow shenanigans, but then again the entire point of the Waystone project is to get many different viewpoints.
Hag Witches: Mathilde makes the case in the update that they either know about Waystones or know a way to do what Waystones do without Waystones, both of each are probably relevant to the project. But this is mostly speculation based on hearsay, and could just be wrong.
OTHER SUPPORT:
Tsarevich: As the heir to the ruler to Kislev (and the man in charge of anything not related to killing or eating, according to him) he can probably give us a lot of material and political support, but I'm not sure how much he'll actually be willing to give us for this. Still, if we want to bring in Kislev the nation into the project (do we?) he's probably the man to go to.
Ice Witches: They have some political influence in Kislev, but they are out of favour at the moment, so they probably can't give us much outside of their magical knowledge.
Hag Witches: They likely have little to offer us outside their magical knowledge. There is some very, very slight chance they could have some hint to the Karag Dum mystery, since Beastmen are something they know about and the current events are possibly related to Karag Dum, but I really wouldn't count on it.
RELEVANCE TO MISSION:
Tsarevich: He's based in Kislev City, far away from the Shirokij, and is likely to know very little about what's going on. On the other hand, he probably has the most capacity to bring power to bear on the relevant players near the Shirokij. He's also based near the Kislev Waystone which has been cut off from the Waystones in Ostermark, which may be relevant to the mission if it turns out that power is used by the Athel Loren forces.
Ice Witches: They are probably already working on the case with the local authorities, so they are likely to know quite a bit about the current situation and have a large part in the official response to it. On the other hand, the Ice Witch we worked with on the Karag Dum expedition dismissed Beastmen as 'Hag Witch business', and that means Ice Witches likely don't have a lot of insight into forest related magical weirdness: you can't really know about forests and not know about beastmen.
Hag Witches: They are right in the thick of things, and they probably have the most information as to what is going on in the forest and in the communities in and around it. On the other hand, Hag Witches aren't exactly known to be powerhouses, and they are not politically powerful outside the small communities they are part of, so they might be the least able to lend Mathilde aid in actually dealing with the threat.
POTENTIAL GRATITUDE:
Tsarevich: This is just one of the many problems Kislev has to deal with, and Boris might bear us a grudge for not basing the project in Kislev. But he'll probably still be at least somewhat grateful for our help, and if this turns out to be an Athel Loren force that intends to seriously harm Kislev at large (and it might not) he'll certainly be happy that we helped him deal with a foreign invasion.
Ice Witches: The local Ice Witches are already on the case, so they'll probably want the help, and it might help raise their stock in Kislev at a time when they are out of favour. We can probably get something from them, but that 'something' probably won't be huge - it isn't that big a favour we're offering. Then again, considering the point above about the Ice Witches not knowing a lot about forest related business, Mathilde's help could be especially valuable to them.
Hag Witches: As Mathilde herself says, this could easily be an existential threat for the Hags and the communities they live in: if so, Mathilde will be a literal lifesaver, and they will be about as grateful as one can be.
ATTITUDE TOWARDS MATHILDE:
Tsarevich: He made us a very generous offer, which we declined. He might be annoyed, or he might be pleasantly surprised to find that Mathilde will be a 'good friend for him to have even if she wasn't living in his back pocket', as she says.
Ice Witches: We worked with them before, but in a very transactional manner: we aren't exactly close friends, and the service we did for them was the price for a service they did for us. Still, a transactional relationship is probably good enough, since we are here to trade favours for favours.
Hag Witches: We don't have that much of an in with them, but through Kurtis and the Hedgewise connections with them Mathilde can probably find out enough to at least make contact with them, and at this point they might be so desperate for help that they'll work with anyone.
LIKELIHOOD OF MAKING THIS THING DRAG ON FOREVER:
Tsarevich: Unless this turns out to be a threat to Kislev at large, he'll probably be happy if we manage to contain the threat or even just get him enough information that he knows how to be deal with it himself, meaning we could extract ourselves from this mess before it's completely done.
Ice Witches: They are working with the Boyar, basically the local noble. They will probably want things resolved to the point where there isn't a large threat to the area near the Shirokij, which may or may not take a while to achieve. But there could come a point where there is still a situation in the forest but the local noble is satisfied that it's not that much worse than the many things you have to deal with and Kislev, and at this point we can probably go.
Hag Witches: So long as there is some problem in the Shirokij the Hag Witches will be in trouble, because they live there. If we go to them we're probably in it for the long haul.
WAYSTONE LORE:
Tsarevich: In theory, Boris can get us Ice Witches and Hag Witches, as he promised us both when we considered basing the project in Kislev. On the other hand, now that the project is not in Kislev he may be less willing to make concessions to the Ice Witches, which he implied would be necessary for their cooperation. I also think the langauge he used regarding the Hag Witches implies he intends to browbeat them into cooperating, and forcing magic users to work for you is probably not a great idea - just ask Alric.
Ice Witches: Ice Witches almost certainly have Waystone lore. The only concern is that is might be very region specific, as the Waystones in Kislev seem different than those in the Empire, possibly due to Ancient Widow shenanigans, but then again the entire point of the Waystone project is to get many different viewpoints.
Hag Witches: Mathilde makes the case in the update that they either know about Waystones or know a way to do what Waystones do without Waystones, both of each are probably relevant to the project. But this is mostly speculation based on hearsay, and could just be wrong.
OTHER SUPPORT:
Tsarevich: As the heir to the ruler to Kislev (and the man in charge of anything not related to killing or eating, according to him) he can probably give us a lot of material and political support, but I'm not sure how much he'll actually be willing to give us for this. Still, if we want to bring in Kislev the nation into the project (do we?) he's probably the man to go to.
Ice Witches: They have some political influence in Kislev, but they are out of favour at the moment, so they probably can't give us much outside of their magical knowledge.
Hag Witches: They likely have little to offer us outside their magical knowledge. There is some very, very slight chance they could have some hint to the Karag Dum mystery, since Beastmen are something they know about and the current events are possibly related to Karag Dum, but I really wouldn't count on it.
RELEVANCE TO MISSION:
Tsarevich: He's based in Kislev City, far away from the Shirokij, and is likely to know very little about what's going on. On the other hand, he probably has the most capacity to bring power to bear on the relevant players near the Shirokij. He's also based near the Kislev Waystone which has been cut off from the Waystones in Ostermark, which may be relevant to the mission if it turns out that power is used by the Athel Loren forces.
Ice Witches: They are probably already working on the case with the local authorities, so they are likely to know quite a bit about the current situation and have a large part in the official response to it. On the other hand, the Ice Witch we worked with on the Karag Dum expedition dismissed Beastmen as 'Hag Witch business', and that means Ice Witches likely don't have a lot of insight into forest related magical weirdness: you can't really know about forests and not know about beastmen.
Hag Witches: They are right in the thick of things, and they probably have the most information as to what is going on in the forest and in the communities in and around it. On the other hand, Hag Witches aren't exactly known to be powerhouses, and they are not politically powerful outside the small communities they are part of, so they might be the least able to lend Mathilde aid in actually dealing with the threat.
POTENTIAL GRATITUDE:
Tsarevich: This is just one of the many problems Kislev has to deal with, and Boris might bear us a grudge for not basing the project in Kislev. But he'll probably still be at least somewhat grateful for our help, and if this turns out to be an Athel Loren force that intends to seriously harm Kislev at large (and it might not) he'll certainly be happy that we helped him deal with a foreign invasion.
Ice Witches: The local Ice Witches are already on the case, so they'll probably want the help, and it might help raise their stock in Kislev at a time when they are out of favour. We can probably get something from them, but that 'something' probably won't be huge - it isn't that big a favour we're offering. Then again, considering the point above about the Ice Witches not knowing a lot about forest related business, Mathilde's help could be especially valuable to them.
Hag Witches: As Mathilde herself says, this could easily be an existential threat for the Hags and the communities they live in: if so, Mathilde will be a literal lifesaver, and they will be about as grateful as one can be.
ATTITUDE TOWARDS MATHILDE:
Tsarevich: He made us a very generous offer, which we declined. He might be annoyed, or he might be pleasantly surprised to find that Mathilde will be a 'good friend for him to have even if she wasn't living in his back pocket', as she says.
Ice Witches: We worked with them before, but in a very transactional manner: we aren't exactly close friends, and the service we did for them was the price for a service they did for us. Still, a transactional relationship is probably good enough, since we are here to trade favours for favours.
Hag Witches: We don't have that much of an in with them, but through Kurtis and the Hedgewise connections with them Mathilde can probably find out enough to at least make contact with them, and at this point they might be so desperate for help that they'll work with anyone.
LIKELIHOOD OF MAKING THIS THING DRAG ON FOREVER:
Tsarevich: Unless this turns out to be a threat to Kislev at large, he'll probably be happy if we manage to contain the threat or even just get him enough information that he knows how to be deal with it himself, meaning we could extract ourselves from this mess before it's completely done.
Ice Witches: They are working with the Boyar, basically the local noble. They will probably want things resolved to the point where there isn't a large threat to the area near the Shirokij, which may or may not take a while to achieve. But there could come a point where there is still a situation in the forest but the local noble is satisfied that it's not that much worse than the many things you have to deal with and Kislev, and at this point we can probably go.
Hag Witches: So long as there is some problem in the Shirokij the Hag Witches will be in trouble, because they live there. If we go to them we're probably in it for the long haul.
The existence of the Ice Wing might need an Ice Witch to maintain the connection with the Waystone i.e. it's not the position of the empress but the presence of an Ice Witch in the Palace. Since they are so protective of their secrets, it's not outlandish to think they never mentioned to any "outsider" that this is what is needed to maintain the Wing to make sure that access can't be held over them as a bargaining chip.
Therefore, with an Ice Witch empress in office, the Waystone might be actively connected to the Ice Wing, and scrutinizing might expose their secrets more than if it was inert, further lowering the chance that they might let us see it. Thus, it is best to visit it now rather than later.
Baba Brzeginias told us to expect a lot of damage in a short period.
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His.
[x] Tsarevich Boris Bokha
OK so do we are going to tell the boyar 'old baba over there told me there would be trouble I had to run roughshod over your autonomy'? Because I do not think they will be very impressed.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
I think I'm gonna go with:
[x] Ice Witches
I wouldn't mind going to Boris, but I'm concerned about going over the local rulers heads causing political issues for us, and a more local response is likely to be faster too.
[x] Ice Witches
I wouldn't mind going to Boris, but I'm concerned about going over the local rulers heads causing political issues for us, and a more local response is likely to be faster too.
- Location
- Earth
[X] Tsarevich Boris Bokha