Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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If Mathilde had a solid answer to this, it would have been in the update.
It wouldn't be a breach of any formal laws, but the Cults are very likely to see it as an attempt to uncover their holy secrets, which could lead to things like denunciations or pressure being placed on the Grey Order to yank Mathilde back into line. How the Gods will feel about it is harder to guess, but presumably if they wanted people to know these things, they could have just told them.
Putting aside Mathilde's curiousity, the most obvious benefit to being able to know for sure which Gods are which would be in matters like Vylmar, a formerly-legal God that was outlawed on suspicion of being Slaanesh in disguise, or with the Cult of Styriss that Gehenna mentioned tangling with that appeared to be using some of Anath Raema's symbology, who is one of the nastier Elven Gods. Cults to forbidden Gods often use different identities to fly under the radar, and innocent Cults are sometimes wiped out mistakenly when trying to combat this.
There are saints ('Venerated Souls') and spirits ('Divine Servants') who are known to intercede on their God's behalf, but they'd be terribly offended at the label 'Daemons'.
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Well then I'm glad. I'm not entirely confident that the thread would never vote for the easier and more convenient options than the hard and incredibly risky ones, but I'm glad there are people like you who are arguing for the same solution. I will say that if Truth wins, then I would certainly be voting in the direction of risky plays that don't involve the Gods of Humanity (or Dwarfs/Elves/Halflings they don't deserve that either). I understand that there are concerns that the people who don't like the winning option would attempt to subtly lead the thread away from the option through relitigation, but I will not be one of those people. I would still prefer to do it in a way I find acceptable.
It's not me being fatalistic necessarily. Truth has had a solid lead for a while and there are like 400 votes already. Swings are possible but I'm not going to count on it. I'm trying to internally accept the decision from now so I don't get salty, and it's been helping to talk in the thread to work it out.The vote will still be open for a few days, no need to be fatalistc just because Faith is losing at the momment. Have faith, Faith can still win!
I don't want to argue anymore. I'm just trying to find a way that makes me feel fine with the winning option, and it helps to consider it in that manner early on.
That's not what I meant. If we want research we should choose Truth, that's without the question. I'm just wondering what cool results could Faith have.
And by "sends disciple" I'd not mean "sends disciple to us", but somewhere in a background, and then 5 turn later we hear about Grand Theft Godhood.
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A prominent example of this is of course the Green Knight in Bretonnia. He is the definition of a Divine Servant, albeit a pretty active one since every single Grail Knight meets and fights him.
Grombrindal would also count I suppose? Not necessarily a servant of any one god, but definitly a Divine Being who exists in the mortal realm and appears in the Dwarf's time of need, which fits more with Divine Servant than a God.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
No, they'll definitely try something tricksy.
They send two Waaaghs, and tell the warbosses that they'll laud whoever crumps Mathilde as the biggest, baddest git around. That'll show her.
(honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Gork and Mork straight up didn't care. They don't seem to be the type who wants to punch you any more or less for intruding on their domain)
Shovern
Extravagant Shitposter
As someone desperate to see Truth win, I'd be perfectly fine with not looking into Gods of the Empire/Ranald, If people are only Comfortable going after Gork and Mork, The Horned Rat and other acceptable/Politically safe targets, that's fine. I just don't want to see this opportunity squandered, Ya dig?
But I do want to take a poke at least one or two Elvish Gods, the way Elves interact with them is unique and I'd love some insight as to just how much of that is cultural vs Divine Metaphysics.
But I do want to take a poke at least one or two Elvish Gods, the way Elves interact with them is unique and I'd love some insight as to just how much of that is cultural vs Divine Metaphysics.
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Only one part of Gork and Mork is about being Brutal, the other is about being Sneaky and Cunning. Skarsnik is dead, but that doesn't mean that the Greenskins suddenly lost all their sneakiness.
That isn't to say that I wouldn't support it, but I think it's a bit reductive to say that Greenskins can't be subtle when one half of their pantheon is about it.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
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I assume achieving such exalted position is what Empress meant when she said that few people happen to die with Ranald in debt to them.
I think that depends. Ancestor Gods are rather weird. Its entirely possible Grombrindal is actually Ancestor God in flesh. Remember, we know that there are accounts of gods walking the earth. We don't know that they are true, but assuming he probably isn't a god just because he happens to walk around is probably not a safe bet.
I don't think Faith is a dangerous option? Its literally a sacrifice. I have recently seen someone argue that it somehow runs counter to Ranald making good with other pantheons, but i think thats a really weird reach?
Its a sacrifice. You don't sacrifice Lamb to a God to make God eat the Lamb, you sacrifice Lamb to a God to make sure the God knows you hold them in high esteem by sacrificing something of value to you in their name. Not only is there no reason any of the gods would know the nature of the sacrifice, there isn't even any reason they would care if they knew what it was. Its a sacrifice, not a divine mail asking to take over research and dissemination of this knowledge. It has no inherent risks except for maybe Ranald being initially pissed at what we managed to do in the first place, but considering what we did with it, it would not be very in character.
The difference between Prudence and Faith aren't, at least from how i understand them from their texts, some wide reaching political consequences of divine and mortal courts. Its entirely about yet more definition and clarification of what our relationship with Ranald is.
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You can have my assurance as well that I'll work to ensure Mathilde not go into the holy places of the Imperial pantheon for the purpose of sticky fingers.
Besides, with the recent description, sampling the major cults is both risky and also of limited initial utility, so that'd help with the rest of us
Oh certainly, but I'm thinking of relatively physical threats, like a waaagh, an assassination or such.
Whereas the other gods are more likely to be hitting you with insidious curses that you can't identify until too late
Thanks you for this answer BTW, it is nice to have a sane ballpark for cult reactions and not 'all the gods and their cults will attack us with everything they have' which I have had to argue against when people were presenting extreme scenarios.
Codex
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To me, the Cytharai are fair game. That's everything from Khaine and Anath Raema to Hekarti and Atharti to I dunno Elinill or whatever. Once we go on Elfcation, I'm planning on supporting any plans that involve raiding Druchii temples for samples if it's a possibility.
NuclearConsensus
Herald of the Thorned One
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I suppose it helps that I don't consider the Order gods to be "easier" or "more convenient" targets. Stupider, more idiotic targets, perhaps. No need to shit in our own house when we can do it to someone else's.
Of course, that doesn't mean there won't ever be a vote to go after Order gods for other reasons than convenience, such as for completion's sake or to find out if Sigmar really is Sigmarro or the other way around.
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Ugh.
Ranald is a friend.
He was her only friend in a bunch of very iffy times.
He probably would not be happy, and I do not mean as a scary God, but as a friend who will likely feel slighted and betrayed. Which might not involve smiting or something, but eh, you don't turn your back on family.
[X] Faith
Ranald is a friend.
He was her only friend in a bunch of very iffy times.
He probably would not be happy, and I do not mean as a scary God, but as a friend who will likely feel slighted and betrayed. Which might not involve smiting or something, but eh, you don't turn your back on family.
[X] Faith
Burned_Cookie
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Faith appears to be lagging behind.
I could say…
Your lack of faith disturbs me
I could say…
Your lack of faith disturbs me
I feel I should note there is a bit of a grey area here. The Cytharai are not without worshipers even in Laurelorn, while they are at their worst as bad as any Proscribed God of the Empire, their worst does not tell the whole story. At their core they are about living in an imperfect world, some elves do it with sorrow, acknowledging the fact, others revel in it.
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Yeah sure. Which is why I'm saying we should raid Druchii temples of the Cytharai, not Laurelorn, Asrai or Asur ones.
This doesn't constitute a betrayal at all considering that his lack of appearing is very likely to be deliberate, and it is possible he's giving himself plausible deniability after by chance Mathilde ended up with all the tools she needed to achieve this.
We know he was there for the whole Vitae research, hell, given the coin on edge probability of Stuck Snake, he could be credited with us getting the source to begin with...unasked, as we just wanted not to be killed by snake.
We know he was there for the Divine research tree up to now, and he also gave us the relic needed to do this research without involving a priest...unasked too, we were just looking for a solution to exploding.
Convenient that he was absent for when we join the trees he gave every piece for and then walked alongside huh?
Yeah sure, I did not mean to imply otherwise, but it is the same god. Like if we took on the aid of the Hekrati worshiping elves for the project I would vote against raiding even a Druchi temple of hers, because her help is worth more than her soul photo.
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If we are banking on it, we might as well sacrifice and try to aim for Abraham sacrificing his son.
And if we think that this sacrifice will not be pulled this way, well then it is pretty clear that we do not actually believe that he would not mind.
If we are banking on it, we might as well sacrifice and try to aim for Abraham sacrificing his son.
And if we think that this sacrifice will not be pulled this way, well then it is pretty clear that we do not actually believe that he would not mind.
I'm not saying the Binding of Issac is impossible, the GM brought it up as a possibility by name, but it should also be noted that this is a god of secrets, lies and theft. There is no guarantee that if there is a test the right answer is to tell the truth.
Burned_Cookie
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It is possible that it is deliberate. Not highly likely.
Do we? All I know is that he gave us a gift with a very clear and intended purpose, four of them to be exact, and that he paid attention one time because we looked to close
Codex
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The idea here is that Mathilde would try to be subtle about it. If the gods notice, then she's getting smited, and Mathilde can't stand a direct smiting from a god. There's a limit to hubris.
Anyways, I'm not too invested in Hekarti. Sure, no Hekarti raiding. Let's do Khaine, Anath Raema, Atharti etc. There's plenty more where that comes from.
I have very little affection for the Cytharai. "They're a dark reflection of the Elven Psyche" or whatever, I don't care. Khaine blinded, crippled and enslaved Vaul to produce weapons for him for all eternity, and Vaul hates it so much that his tears pour into the mortal world as flint, accepting the situation because he's "vital for beating Chaos" or whatever. I don't care, he 100% deserves to be mugged. What an asshole.