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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Glau said:
I was thinking more that by keeping the crystal, there's a chance someone is going to figure out how to kill Ranald through it. And forgive me if I don't believe Tzeetch could already do this- if he could kill gods, he would have by now, but the only example we have of anyone doing that is humans. And if we are trusting that dwarves will keep our stuff safe... I think that betrayal is a much larger risk than is apparent. There are, after all, order gods that probably would be happy to see Ranald dead, and their adherents would pass any loyalty tests the dwarves would set up.
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This seems to be massively over-hyping what a tiny drop of power stated to be equivalent at best to some holy water is capable of.

If that could do it then so could any other artifact of a god, or even probably any priest sufficiently blessed.
 
picklepikkl said:
The most obvious place to start for divine energy collection would be the shrine of Mannslieb we looted from the Kul, since that requires no AP expenditure beyond just "research the thing we have on our to-be-researched list." We would then be able to, at some point in the future, determine whether the fingerprint we take off the Mannslieb shrine is identical to a fingerprint we would collect at some point off an artifact of Manaan, thereby determining whether they're worshiping the same god or not.

That's kind of neat, I suppose, but I guess where I'm coming up short is "what next?" We can't really publish "the Kurgan are totally worshiping a 'civilized' god, but I can't present the evidence or even hint too hard about it because the gods may get super pissed about it." It's just... kind of neat. Cython would get a kick out of it, sure, but what do we do with that?
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I can't really see what the endgame for this line of study would be, but then, I didn't know Vitae would recharge Anvil runes when we started, either.

Presumably, options would open as we rifle through the universe's pockets for spare change. As long as we don't flub a roll and get Sigmar bringing the hammer down on our heads.
 
hmm... what would happen if we went to Nehekhara, got our hands on one of their Artifacts and took a picture of it.

Are the Nehekharan gods actually dead, or are they just playing possum? Find out in the next episode of Divided Loyalties!
 
Going to be honest I'm just tired of people making arguements about how terribly things will go if people don't vote the way they want.

I'm borderline reaching the point of voting against that kind of thing on principle even if I'm not entirely for the vote in question.

I've just seen so many people who focus on putting down the option they don't want and making it look like the end of the world.
 
[x] Faith

Because the gods are keeping this stuff secret for a reason. And I'm really not willing to gamble on that reason being petty.
 
I would prefer to wait until after waystones to really investigate this in any sense, though.

This is just too powerful of a potential tool for Order to let slip by.

The worst that can happen would be quest end, I suppose, but I think it is more likely that Mathilde would get a reprimand if things go sour with this.

[x] Truth
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Sure but again I'll ask you what I asked Shane earlier, where do you see us finding another source of divinity to research that is remotely even equivalent to this?
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Equivalent "sources of divinity" would be any divine charged objects which are clearly linked to exactly 1 divinity. Amount of divinity is secondary, as long as it's enough to start a reaction. In fact, the artifact being as minor and unimportant as possible would be preferable, since those are less likely to be observed.

The shrine Mathilde found during the recent expedition would be an equivalent. Freshly blessed items of any deity would probably work, or at least be an avenue for research. Actual priests would probably work if we ever want to do it with a god who doesn't mind.

The shark statue Mathilde sacrificed to Ranald would have worked.
Tasoli said:
We are sacrificing/foreswearing the use of AV in divine research. It is meaningful since it is the first and so far only method we found that allows us to peek behind the curtain.
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It is an impactful and large sacrifice, but is it meaningful to Ranald if he doesn't care that much?

Boney phrased it as Ranald passing judgement on it, which can mean a plethora of things. It could be anything down to just using the sacrifice of his own energy to himself to get his attention and ask him what he thinks. (He is her oldest friend, after all.) Your interpretation I'd put way up on the higher end, what with it mystically sacrificing parts of our action economy.
 
picklepikkl said:
That's kind of neat, I suppose, but I guess where I'm coming up short is "what next?"
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The 'what next' is simply having another tool in Mathilde's kit. I'm quite certain a scenario in the future will come up where it will be helpful for her to be able to do Divine forensics. So i'd like her to not close off that capability. If I thought there would be a high price to pay for it I might think otherwise, but since I don't expect Ranald to care, and I don't think other gods will find out as long as we don't immediately start hopping around blatantly looking for sources. I see little cost to keeping the option open for the future.
 
Candymancer said:
[X] Faith

If it was another god, I would have chosen Truth, but Ranald is on our side and has been a big help many times.
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Ranald part of the action is pretty much done with his tactic approval. We are thinking about going after other gods now or choosing to forsaking this line of research as a show of piety. Like swearing off of beacon and deciding to eat something else you might say.

So if it makes any difference....
 
So, if this does go bad and we become a marked enemy of the major cults of the empire, what is our plan for the future?

It seems like any god that decides to check in on their artifacts would find our artifical ones pretty easily, so I'm off the opinion this is more of a "what do we do when this comes out?" than a "will this come out?" sort of a question.
 
Glau said:
So, if this does go bad and we become a marked enemy of the major cults of the empire, what is our plan for the future?

It seems like any god that decides to check in on their artifacts would find our artifical ones pretty easily, so I'm off the opinion this is more of a "what do we do when this comes out?" than a "will this come out?" sort of a question.
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I don't know what are your plans if the Liber Mortis is discovered?

Can we just cut the fearongering please? I have done it myself to my regret and I have to say it is not fun on either end.
 
Hmm, I'm starting to lean more towards Truth now, because Mathilde who's just a walking pile of dangerous heretical secrets, but never does anything evil with it, that's my jam.

I imagine her having her final meeting with her trusted apprentice/minion/whatever before her retirement to Lustria, and just unloading. How to be a master necromancer, how to use Dhar good, how to use spells from other winds (with just a little dhar), forbidden dwarf lore, heretical secrets of the gods, how to make tacos, all the secret undocumented waystone functions, and so on.
 
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torac said:
Equivalent "sources of divinity" would be any divine charged objects which are clearly linked to exactly 1 divinity. Amount of divinity is secondary, as long as it's enough to start a reaction. In fact, the artifact being as minor and unimportant as possible would be preferable, since those are less likely to be observed.

The shrine Mathilde found during the recent expedition would be an equivalent. Freshly blessed items of any deity would probably work, or at least be an avenue for research. Actual priests would probably work if we ever want to do it with a god who doesn't mind.

The shark statue Mathilde sacrificed to Ranald would have worked.
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There is a massive difference between a divinely blessed item and what we're doing.

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A divinely blessed item is powered by a god but only contains the structure of a single specific effect. There is no way to learn anything from the item - Mathilde tried that already, the item itself was inherently too intricate for her to understand due to the absurd complexity of divine magic, and using the item as a signpost towards the god itself for observation got her the "Please don't" note.

The crystals use the natural properties of divine energy to grow a picture of the entire god. Mathilde can look as much as she likes without losing her sanity by interacting too closely with the divine.
 
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Glau said:
So, if this does go bad and we become a marked enemy of the major cults of the empire, what is our plan for the future?

It seems like any god that decides to check in on their artifacts would find our artifical ones pretty easily, so I'm off the opinion this is more of a "what do we do when this comes out?" than a "will this come out?" sort of a question.
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Become a black magister, revel in the opportunity to pursue tongs and necromancy. Develop single person windherding.
 
picklepikkl said:
That's kind of neat, I suppose, but I guess where I'm coming up short is "what next?"
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If we had this before Dum we would have copy of the divine presence that was there and could search to see who it was doing Dum desert stuff. If we had the power library we probably could have figured it on the spot.

I think it is a worthy pursuit.
 
[X] Faith
[X] Prudence

Really would be advocating for Prudence here normally but it has a snowball's chance right now.

Also sometimes this thread just confuses me, it treated a weakened Cor-Dum as entirely too dangerous to handle but now there is a significant chunk for poking the altogether more powerful gods of the world, and hell I was one of the ones advocated for trying to do something there.
 
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