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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Artemis1992 said:
Good enough.
I guess I'd like the case to be a bit more clear-cut in text, but I guess we can get away with not all every i dotted and t crossed, particularly since we did have a clear and obvious case on the murder and oathbreaking in King's Landing.

[X] Azel
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It's up in the air what the laws text says, but given that arguing that Tywins actions are legal comes close to arguing that Geasa and intrusive mind manipulate should be legal... not many people would argue that.
 
Azel said:
It's up in the air what the laws text says, but given that arguing that Tywins actions are legal comes close to arguing that Geasa and intrusive mind manipulate should be legal... not many people would argue that.
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I don't think anyone would argue that, only that it has not been illegal before we introduced new laws on the matter.

No pre-awakening law would have explicitly included magical mind-control after all.
 
Artemis1992 said:
I don't think anyone would argue that, only that it has not been illegal before we introduced new laws on the matter.

No pre-awakening law would have explicitly included magical mind-control after all.
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Volantis' laws did actually, the old ones from back when it was a military outpost of thee Freehold rather than the more recent mare's nest of precedents. All the other free cities would have gotten rid of them but not Volatis. It was after all a matter of legacy.
 
DragonParadox said:
Of Blood and Fire ​

Eighteenth Day of the Fifth Month 294 AC

"Let the record show that the accused refuses to comply with court procedures. For the benefit of the accused, the court will assume that he has plead 'not guilty'. Proceed, Lord Vanor," you reply in place of the outburst the accused was probably expecting and hoping for. Or not... perhaps he actually thinks he is giving good advice, a payment of sort for having been treated well as a prisoner. Even now at the last, Tywin Lannister does not seem to understand what the rise of magic means for the world, that your 'kindness' is nothing of the sort, but instead simple conventional wisdom. You do not need a rack and thumbscrews to make your case, and to have him show any sort of bruise or wound would make a poor show for the mirrors. There is yet much you can take from the proud, terrible old man in front of you, and it shall not involve laying a hand on him.

Malarys' lips twitch ever so slightly in amusement, though you doubt any who do not know him as well as you could have seen it, much less guessed the cause. 'Let us add on a charge of contempt of court to the one of murder and slavery, and all sundry sins that only the noose can absolve. That way he can pay a fine with the coin he does not have...'

There is the faint scratch of the court calligraphy wyrm laying down that very charge on paper, then he continues. "On the matter of the attack upon King's Landing and the ordering of the deaths of the Princess Ellia Martell, her son Aegon and her daughter Rhaenys, the prosecution calls upon a posthumous witness Gregor Clegane, called by some the Mountain that Rides."

The skull gleams white and pristine in the light of the mage lamps, though you had to repair it from the ruin Sandor had made of it. As you knew it would, the voice of Gregor Clegane, still echoing with a faint remnant of his hateful will, recounts how he had been commanded to kill Aegon and Rhaenys, and had Malarys not stopped, it you know it would have given even the details of the deed. It had obviously been something of a highlight of Clegane's miserable life, to have been so well preserved in his bones. Though Elia's death had not been ordered, it is clear that in sending the Mountain on his murderous errand, the Lord of the Westerlands had at the very least not cared to preserve her life, and not once had he ever been brought to task for the crime, not even in private. It is more brief, but no less clear, on the matter of who had ordered the sack.

For corroboration on that part, you have some of the horn blowers and signalmen of the Lannister hosts from those times brought forth to testify that indeed the sack had been long planned, almost certainly before the hosts of the Westerlands had even set out. It would have been rather impolitic to bring the lords to give the same account, after all.

'And so you shall be thanking me, my lords, for allowing 'smallfolk' to testify when you cursed my great-grandfather for it,' you think with carefully veiled amusement.

Next comes a matter that is not public record at all, that the Wyldfire attack in the Deep had been planned in the Red Keep and 'the substance' provided by the Alchemists' Guild at the king's command, with the aid and agreement of the lord of the Westerlands. The documents Pycelle had been able to gather on the matter do not have any Lannister seals, but they do have one of the Golden Shields in the matter of transporting the stuff and handing of off to the 'foreign wizard'.

The revelation that said wizard had been one of the Deep Ones awakens quite a few shocked gasps among the more excitable of the Curia, and you suspect it would have drawn groans among the more savvy, had they allowed themselves the luxury.

"The crown does not usually allow one to remain unprosecuted on the matter of making alliance with the enemies of all the world, but in this case, given how clearly the record shows that you neither knew nor cared what manner of killer you had 'hired' to slay tens of thousands, the prosecution allows that your ignorance should be taken as genuine," a small note of disdain entered Malarys' tone at last. "Do you have anything to say in your defense that counters what has been here said and shown?"

"Only this," the Old Lion replies, more angry at the implication of his own incompetence than he would like to show. "You cast a spell upon a skull that we must take on faith of your honesty that it is Clegane's, and then it says what you wished it to say. Who is to say what else you might make it say or whence it came?" Looking around the domed hall he adds. "Which of you, my lords, will be next charged on the words of hollow bones and men of no account that you might buy with three coppers on the roadside?"

"That I could do something should not be taken as a sign that I did, Lord Lannister," Malarys replies, now again in his perfectly neutral tones. "I could simply have made you say that you were guilty, but unlike you I have never made puppets of others in defiance of both oath and law. As soon say that all who bear a sword must have committed as many crimes of violence as your... Mountain. There are standards for evidence in this court and those standards are publicly known. While I cannot here reveal the source of the Inquisition's evidence for some of them, postcognitive divinations have established that the documents have come from the hands of a member of the Golden Shields and some of those same mages are willing to testify against you. As has been shown time and again, slaves are only too glad to do that against a master who abused them."

"Fine then, I shall play along in this mummery," the old man sighs, as though weary of the follies he sees around him. He turns to you. "There was no law in the Seven Kingdoms that claimed that laying geas on another was slavery. Am I then to be judged by the laws of a realm I was not then part of and did not recognize, indeed a realm that did not exist when the first of these supposed crimes of magic were committed? If that is the standard, then I imagine all of Westeros shall see men in grey cloaks demanding the throne's due darkening their door, and I do not think that all your magic is enough for that."

What (if anything) do you reply?

[] Write in

OOC: Tywin can stand being called a monster much better than being called an idiot, news at 11.
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Made some additional edits to the chapter, DP.
 
I can't wait for Law & Order: Sorcerous Victims Unit and CSI: Criminal Sorcerous Investigations begin airing on the Imperial Mirrorvision Network.

[X] Azel
 
Ok so since the vote is not likely to be very contentious here is what I have so far for the combat system, the earliest of early versions. Many thanks to @Artemis1992 who helped get is this far

Unit Name:Westeros ArmsmenImperial LegionImperial Legion (with Mages and Imperial Steel)Sahaguin Army
Readiness60808060
Offense Physical:3564
Offense Mental:0021
Offense Death:0020
Defence Physical:3563
Defence Mental:1332
Defence Death:1111
Mobility:4555
Morale:5666
Ranged Options:Physical 2Physical 3Physical 4, Mental 2, Death 2Physical 2, Mental 1
Special Notes:Physical Defences of Incorporeal units is treated 2 catagories lowerMobility +2 in Water, +1 Physical Offence and Defence and Morale after 2 rounds in melee due to spreading bloodrage

Attack/defense has been broken into three pairs of stats to model what sort of damage you can do to a unit. First there is physical whether you are talking sword to the face or fireball, then you have death with is the various manipulations of negative energy and undead bad touches, an finally you have psychic which is mind blasts enchantments etc.

Readiness is the HP, it is the ability of an army to act like an army. since that had been codified it makes sense to do the same to the amout of damage each roll can do. For now that is 5 basic +5 points per degree of success (per 10 more on an opposed roll)

As a reminder this is how the rolls interact with with a difference in the stats of the armies.


Combat system

When a unit attacks another the advantage difference between the units will impose a modifier on a 1d100:

+10 advantages: Massive damage caused destruction or rout guaranteed barring special circumstances
+9 advantages: Roll twice take the higher value +125
+8 advantages: Roll twice take the higher value +100
+7 advantages: Roll twice take the higher value +80
+6 advantages: Roll twice take the higher value +60
+5 advantages: Roll twice take the higher value +45
+4 advantages: +45
+3 advantages: +30
+2 advantages: +20
+1 advantages: +10
No advantage: +0
-1 advantages: -10
-2 advantages: -20
-3 advantages: -30
-4 advantages: -45
-5 advantages: Roll twice take the lower value -45
-6 advantages: Roll twice take the lower value -60
-7 advantages: Roll twice take the lower value -80
-8 advantages: Roll twice take the lower value -100
-9 advantages: Roll twice take the lower value -125
-10 advantages: No damage caused barring special circumstances

What gives advantages:

A) The comparative attack and defense tiers of the units engaged in combat:

Tiers of military capability :
  1. Horrendous
  2. Low
  3. Bad
  4. Inferior
  5. Medium
  6. Superior
  7. Good
  8. High
  9. Extraordinary
  10. Legendary
  11. Mythical
-for instance a unit with Medium attack engaged with one with Horrendous defense would have +4 advantages and thus a +45 all other things being equal-

B) Strength in numbers:
  1. 5 to 1: +7 advantages
  2. 4 to 1: +5 advantages
  3. 3 to 1: +3 advantages
  4. 2 to 1: +2 advantages
  5. 1.2 to 1: +1 advantage
  6. 1 to 1: no advantages
  7. 1 to 1.2: -1 advantage
  8. 1 to 2: -2 advantages
  9. 1 to 3: -3 advantages
  10. 1 to 4: -5 advantages
  11. 1 to 5: -7 advantages
Note one: Getting to use odds of 5 to 1 or above in any single clash is impossible barring special circumstances. Indeed the use of disciplined formations and terrain features can make leveraging even lesser numeric superiority impossible however it is possible to swarm an enemy (see below).

Note two: Constant attrition against fresh enemies can grind down an army's advantages of quality or positioning. Advantages can be lost to fatigue after the first three clashes in quick succession. The rate at which they are lost depends on the results of the rolls themselves as well as the endurance of the outnumbered troops (Grinding dwarfs down for example is very difficult indeed)

C) Positioning:

Flanking grants +3 advantages with even more given to troops with the ability to charge like cavalry, monstrous cavalry or monsters.
Attacking the rear of an army works the same as flanking except the base value is +5 advantages.

D) The impact of Martial skill:
  1. Commander of considerably less than base human norm (0 to 4): -3 advantages
  2. Commander of less than base human norm (5 to 9): -1 advantages
  3. Commanders of exactly base human norm (10): no advantage
  4. Commanders of more than base human norm (11 to 15): +1 advantages
  5. Commanders of considerably more than base human norm (16 to 20): +2 advantages
  6. Commanders of extraordinary skill relative to the base human norm (21 to 24): +3 advantages
  7. Commanders of peek human skill (25 to 30): +4 advantages
  8. Commanders of a skill that transcends human limits (31 to 34): +5 advantages
  9. Commanders of a skill that greatly transcends human limits (35 to 40): +7 advantages
  10. Commanders of demigod skill (41 to 44): + 9 advantages
  11. Commanders of greater demigod skill (45 to 49): + 11 advantages
Note Three: The full bonus always applies to whatever unit the commander is personally in charge of. Leveraging the higher levels of expertise for the entire army requires ever more complex levels of communication with demigod level bonuses and above being impossible to apply though purely mundane means. Examples of extraordinary communication include Daemonic communion, necromantic or other forms of magical control.

Morale:

A unit will take a morale test if the beings fighting within it have been flanked attacked from the rear or can sense that the battle is turning against them. Sufficiently powerful fear or terror effects can also induce a morale check.

Circumstantial bonuses:

Things like the strength of the Waagh effect, the grim determination of the dwarfs, the fanaticism of the Lizardmen and the crazed zeal of Chaos worshipers can add modifiers to both attack and morale rolls as will more mundane things like experience.

Ranged combat:

Ranged combat benefits from only half of the advantages given by commander skill (there is only so much skill involved in setting up archers) but is not at all affected by superior enemy numbers. Height advantage and fortifications grant additional advantages to ranged troops

Mobility:

Mobility is the marker for how well troops can move around the battle field with Extraordinary mobility and above being the mark of flight or other magical means of locomotion.

Note Four: Successful disengaging requires higher mobility than the enemy and may trigger a moral check if the unit is either too low on morale (and thus likely to rout) or too impetuous (and thus unwilling to disengage).

This is how an example fight went in PMs

Artemis1992 said:
Trial:
1 Legion (upgraded with magic and IMP-Steel) with a generic general (+1 from Martial score) against 2 Westerosi armies, both with average commanders (+0 from Martial score) on a relativly neutral terrain.

The Westerosi commanders start by trying to send one army at the Legion and outflank it with the other, Legion General draws his army into a broader formation to prevent that:

Westeros vs Legion:
1d100 vs 1d100 = 39 vs 56 (Here Westeros has +2 Advantages from outnumbering the enemy, but Legion has +1 from higher mobility and +1 from better commander, so things stay equal with no boni for either side)

The Legion manages the maneuver before Westeros can get any strategic advantage, the armies face each other front-to-front.

Next they exchange arrows and in the Legion's case alchemical bombs and Fireballs as well.

Westeros Ranged attack vs Legion defence:
1d100 vs 1d100 +45 = 31 vs 87+45 = No damage (Here the Legion's Physical defence offers +4 advantages and the commander +1, so +45 bonus and a reroll if the need it)
Same for the other Westerosi army attacking:
1d100 vs 1d100 +45 = 57 vs 86 +45 = No damage
Legion Ranged attack vs 1. Westerosi Army:
Physical: 1d100 vs 1d100 -20 = 27 vs 56 -20 = No damage
Mental: 1d100 vs 1d100 -20 = 95 vs 46 -20 = 6 degrees of success, 35 damage
Death: 1d100 vs 1d100 -20 = 16 vs 33 -20 = bare success, 5 damage

Westeros 1 at 20/60 Readiness

The Westerosi arrows bounce of shields and armor Imperial Steel, failing to achieve more than a few individual wounds and losses, meaningless in this clash of armies.
Likewise the Legion's physical attacks are inefficient, shields blocking crossbow bolts and any holes in the formation ripped by fireballs being closed before they could do much harm.
Likewise any spells of death and ruin, curses and lifedraining fail to find worthwile targets, only a few dead seargents have any impact on the enemies organisation.
But the Enchanters of the Scholarium, despite their small numbers, have an outsized impact. Officers fall asleep or go into fits of manical laughter, waves of fear turn the NCOs steely voices into uncertain whispers unable to keep up order in the ranks.

Due to loosing more than half of its HP in one attack (despite relativly few actual deaths) the first Westerosi army rolls for a rout:
1d100 (DC 50 due to 5 Morale): 97 (no rout) (Let's say +5 HP back for the crit)

Westeros 1 at 25/60 Readiness

The Knights and officers shout to stand firm in the name of the Seven against fell witchcraft, several of the sleeping officers are woken up with hearty slaps.

Then the lines close blade clashes with blade, all while still fire and arrows are exchanged from the ranks in the back.

Legion Attack:
Physical 1d100 +20 vs 1d100 = 64 +20 vs 47 (Legion's physical offense is 3 points higher than Westeros defence and they get +1 from commander, but they are heavily outnumbered and loose 2 advantages, leaving it at +2) 3 degrees of success, 20 damage
Mental 1d100 vs 1d100 = 78 vs 14, (Legion's mental offence is 1 point higher than Westeros defence and gets +1 from commander, but numbers equalise the exchange) 6 degrees of success 35 damage
Death 1d100 vs 1d100 = 17 vs 45, no damage

Westeros Attack:
1st Army: 1d100 -20 vs 1d100 = 63 -20 vs 38, bare success, 5 damage
2nd Army 1d100 -20 vs 1d100 = 16-20 vs 97 no damage (due to the critically different results here the 2nd army will take -10 on their next Morale roll, having the impression of fighting an invulnerable foe)

Damage gets split equally between the two Westerosi:
1st: at 0/60 readiness, breaks and scatters
2nd: at 40/60 readiness

Legion at 75/80 readiness

As the blades clash it becomes obvious that the western blades, be they castle-forged steel or curde iron can hardly scratch the Legionaires armor. Meanwhile their blades reap a bloody toll while yet more spells of sleep, fear or momentary madness throw the armies of Westeros into further chaos.
Finally one of the armies breaks, its commander helpless to stop the complete rout, while the other hesitates after the losses taken, and the seemingly invulnerable foe grinding on.

Westeros 2nd Morale roll:
1d100 -10 (DC 50) = 63 (army holds, but takes a wavering penalty, command-bonus treated as 1 lower from now on)

The Armsmen hold, a semblence of order yet in place, but the commander can see that the battle is as good as lost and only an ordered retreat can possibly save what remains of his army.

Westerosi Retreat (Mobility vs Mobility):
1d100 - 30 vs 1d100 = 33 - 30 vs 14 (Westeros has 1 point lower mobility, 1 point worse commander and now -1 from wavering)

The ordered retreat fails as a narrative decision the Legion could now attack again with no counter-attack, almost certainly crushing them, or offer try to offer surrender, either way the battle is effectivly over.
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@DragonParadox, you will definitely need a fourth kind of attack to model aerial bombardment and long-range artillery. These weapons massively outrange everything else and they are extremely difficult to defend against with anything that isn't 20+ cm of steel.
 
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