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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Goldfish said:
We don't know how much of this was purchased from extraplanar contacts, how much was found in a vault somewhere, and how much they researched and crafted for themselves.

I have a feeling the only fully homegrown stuff was the landmines.
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not exavtly what we argue, here.
 
Azel said:
And we infiltrated his RnD center beneath Casterly Rock and got recent Golden Shields defectors, yet got yet again completely blindsided by this.

It's immensely frustrating how everyone keeps bringing the perfect counters to whatever we cook up and we literally never know ahead of time what we will face.

Edit: I mean, I'm fine with the landmines outside. I'm fine with the golems, even though that we are completely oblivious to them is stretching belief. But now their mages get invulnerability hacks? Yeah. No.
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Look we have just had a conversation about everything being 'easy mode'. Is this a tricky encounter, yes. Is is impossible, no, you just need to kill the golems first and then move on to the mages by say dispelling the rings, those deactivate and you can snatch them off the floor and the mages have to drop their defenses.

I'm trying to calibrate this between what makes sense IC and what gives some sense of a challenge to go with what you are doing. I make no claim that this is perfect, but I do not think 'the wand faction figured out a limited want cheat' is wholly unreasonable.
 
[X] Retreat into the hallways and blow the entrance with Explosive Packs, then wait for Viserys to sort this out.

I mean if they're not planning on keeping the place why should we?

We have nukes for a reason and a whole bunch of ships just waiting for a target.

 
Once again, the entirety of our intelligence assets have proved worthless. As they have done basically every time since we created them.
DragonParadox said:
I'm trying to calibrate this between what makes sense IC and what gives some sense of a challenge to go with what you are doing. I make no claim that this is perfect, but I do not think 'the wand faction figured out a limited want cheat' is wholly unreasonable.
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The problem isn't that our enemies can have nice things. The problem is that aparently they can pull them out of their asses without us having even the slightest warning despite us continuosly throwing actions and resources into our espionage operations.
 
Azel said:
And there's still a limit of how many aces you can draw from your sleeves before it becomes unrealistic.

We missed the anti-dragon construct in Seaguard.
We missed the alchemical production for the landmines.
We missed the Gold Golems.
We missed the invulnerability spheres.

In fact, what precisely do we know about the Lannister forces?
Nothing. Nothing at all. They get to pull things from thin air every time we engage them, no matter how hard we try to get intel on them.

Heck, we knew for months that they had "some sort of anti-dragon weapon" and we know that they fired with something at the Wyverns last month. We still have not gotten any answers to what that was and how that happened, despite repeatedly throwing resources at finding out.
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*sigh*

You are right. I could try to pick this apart, but the fact of the matter is that I would just be making excuses. I did not prepare this with as much diligence as I should have weeks and months ahead of time. I focused on writing character pieces and interludes that I found fun when I should have been making Lannister notes.

I'll retcon the encounter to get rid of the rings in a bit.
 
Mind, I am a-okay with all they use here. I'm all for difficult encounters.
Those are loot, drama, and entertaining planning sessions from the people that know their stuff.

I'm am as conflicted as Azel is with how our spying ends up being worth nothing with zero Intel gained over months of efforts, again and again.

CoS.
Lannisters.
Still unknown even in abstract numbers and locations for Illithids.
Teh list just goes on.
 
Hey DP, no need to retcon the encounter!
I'm hyped for a big fight, honestly. The whole "this quest feels like easy mode and a change of pace is nice" situation is real, after all.

Just, next time let us have some hints as to their assets when we spend time spying on them?
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
I generally agree with you on this, but in these circumstances this feels partly unfair.
1: This would have been a solid counter to basically anything that tried to take the Throne room instead of shelling the keep, and would have a solid strategy against us & Companions if we'd walked in
2: On the other hand, I'm a little surprised that we didn't get IC hints at any of this. Maybe the attack-orbs could have been easily hidden if only a single mindblanked person knew about them and then gave them to the GS when we arrived in town, but surely the ten Golems weren't smuggled in in total secret! We literally had multiple high-ranked spies in this very keep!
We knew OOC that there were golden lion-shaped Golems near the throne, but AFAIK that was it.
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My problem is not 1, the encounter is logical, but with 2, the lack of any hint or foreshadowing. Our enemies keep getting free ass pulls, which makes pre-planning anything a pointless endeavour.
DragonParadox said:
Look we have just had a conversation about everything being 'easy mode'. Is this a tricky encounter, yes. Is is impossible, no, you just need to kill the golems first and then move on to the mages by say dispelling the rings, those deactivate and you can snatch them off the floor and the mages have to drop their defenses.

I'm trying to calibrate this between what makes sense IC and what gives some sense of a challenge to go with what you are doing. I make no claim that this is perfect, but I do not think 'the wand faction figured out a limited want cheat' is wholly unreasonable.
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See above. My issue is these things appearing out of thin air, giving us no chance but to be surprised, bamboozled and ambushed time and time again.


Anyway, my vote stands. This encounter is unwinnable for the Praetori. Too few officers for the charge maneuver. Too many golems that can't be staggered reliably. Casters are de facto invulnerable, since the Praetori have no casters and no other means to cause a Targeted Dispel, and lack the ammunition and time to shell them into submission.

Tactical retreat is the only sane option.
 
Azel said:
Anyway, my vote stands. This encounter is unwinnable for the Praetori. Too few officers for the charge maneuver. Too many golems that can't be staggered reliably. Casters are de facto invulnerable, since the Praetori have no casters and no other means to cause a Targeted Dispel, and lack the ammunition and time to shell them into submission.

Tactical retreat is the only sane option.
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Edits done, there are no force effects anymore so you can shoot the mages.
 
@DragonParadox, can we have the stats (or at least size category) of the rings our Praetorians need to destroy to get rid of the mages?
Possible ways to neuter the mages:
  • Have Air Elementals grab the rings, or simply cup them in their hands them to break line of effect
  • Break the rings with Launcher shots
And for both plans, start by whipping out all those elementals to tarpit the Golems

Once the rings are down, the Golems can be staggered at need
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Hey DP, no need to retcon the encounter!
I'm hyped for a big fight, honestly.

Just, next time let us have some hints as to their assets when we spend time spying on them?
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...but no, really, when would that be?

We aren't getting our spies in into Qohor, because eldritch shit.

No chances of having good enough coverage in the actually-dangerous-enemies-Efreeti capital, af least not the stuff to know the same sort of hints to war secrets we expected from Lannisters.

Slavers Bay is long past the "infiltrate and spy"-point, and Devils would've been Hell (heh) to try and dupe.


We would only have Others, Devils, Illithids, Bloodstone Emperor, and the 15th as the large threats to our rule left on Planetos after we are done here.
And none are spy-able to the degree we went with Lannisters (if any).
 
Instead of trying to defeat the Golems, the Praetorians should treat them as an environmental hazard or obstacle they need to work around.

The Golems can only match a Praetorian's speed if they're Hasted, and there is plenty of room in the chamber for them to kite the Golems while taking pot shots at them. It's the mages we need to deal with. They're the ones who make the Golems much more dangerous and who are likely giving them additional orders.
 
egoo said:
...but no, really, when would that be?

We aren't getting our spies in into Qohor, because eldritch shit.

No chances of having good enough coverage in the actually-dangerous-enemies-Efreeti capital, af least not the stuff to know the same sort of hints to war secrets we expected from Lannisters.

Slavers Bay is long past the "infiltrate and spy"-point, and Devils would've been Hell (heh) to try and dupe.


We would only have Others, Devils, Illithids, Bloodstone Emperor, and the 15th as the large threats to our rule left on Planetos after we are done here.
And none are spy-able to the degree we went with Lannisters (if any).
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This is a fair point, but I don't like it :cry:
 
egoo said:
Good news for the Lannisters then, all they need is to cast a room-wide fire cantrip to fuck shit up.
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That's fine, though. Even with the Haste effect, they're still only as fast as the Praetorians. There are 10 of them, but 40 Praetorians. If the Praetorians spread out and keep on the move, the Golems simply won't be able to attack them.

And even if they are Hasted, a Tanglefoot Bag or Liquid Ice shot will Entangle them, which halves their speed (so 30 while Hasted or 15 if not). The Tanglefoot Bags can also stick them in place for a short time on a lucky shot.
 
I'm not seeing why we should have the Praetori bash their heads in on a brickwall. This ambush is beyond what they can deal with, so let's just retreat before they get murdered by the dozens.
 
DragonParadox said:
*sigh*

You are right. I could try to pick this apart, but the fact of the matter is that I would just be making excuses. I did not prepare this with as much diligence as I should have weeks and months ahead of time. I focused on writing character pieces and interludes that I found fun when I should have been making Lannister notes.

I'll retcon the encounter to get rid of the rings in a bit.
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*Takes a long look at the 4.8 Million Words long Quest, running for five years and looks at the two Pages i make for my own Sessions*

I think you are being a bit unfair to yourself. You are providing top tier Entertainment for free and you merely dropped an Aspect or two here and there. You are supposed to have fun too with this Quest.
 
Goldfish said:
That's fine, though. Even with the Haste effect, they're still only as fast as the Praetorians. There are 10 of them, but 40 Praetorians. If the Praetorians spread out and keep on the move, the Golems simply won't be able to attack them.

And even if they are Hasted, a Tanglefoot Bag or Liquid Ice shot will Entangle them, which halves their speed (so 30 while Hasted or 15 if not). The Tanglefoot Bags can also stick them in place for a short time on a lucky shot.
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They don't have enough alchemical ammo to keep that up for long and that is if we assume they used nothing on their way to the throne room.
 
Goldfish said:
That's fine, though. Even with the Haste effect, they're still only as fast as the Praetorians. There are 10 of them, but 40 Praetorians. If the Praetorians spread out and keep on the move, the Golems simply won't be able to attack them.

And even if they are Hasted, a Tanglefoot Bag or Liquid Ice shot will Entangle them, which halves their speed (so 30 while Hasted or 15 if not). The Tanglefoot Bags can also stick them in place for a short time on a lucky shot.
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Benny Hilling stuff at the edge of Praetorians' ability is shit plan when they do have enemy mages to contend with.
 
Xavies said:
*Takes a long look at the 4.8 Million Words long Quest, running for five years and looks at the two Pages i make for my own Sessions*

I think you are being a bit unfair to yourself. You are providing top tier Entertainment for free and you merely dropped an Aspect or two here and there. You are supposed to have fun too with this Quest.
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Doing something right does not undo the stuff I did wrong, nor vice-versa. I'm trying to keep a clear eyed look at this.
 
Azel said:
I'm not seeing why we should have the Praetori bash their heads in on a brickwall. This ambush is beyond what they can deal with, so let's just retreat before they get murdered by the dozens.
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This would be a great opportunity for the Praetorians to display their skills and tactics, though. Rather than trying to destroy the Golems, we should be aiming to kill or capture the mages controlling them.

The Praetorians all carry Sleep-Smoke and Smokesticks. They don't even need to hit the flying mages with the stuff. They can just set it off and task a bunch of Large Air Elementals to direct it at the flying mages. Even if they're protected from the Sleep-Smoke, they will still have their vision obscured while being harried by the Elementals. That would allow the Praetorians within range of a given mage, at least those not actively kiting the Golems, to focus fire on the mages using Fungal Stun Vials, explosive munitions, and regular bolts.
 
The obvious answer is "retreat and call in the Big Guns Dragon"
But a hard-fought battle sounds a lot cooler to read...

@Goldfish, make a vote for that and you have mine!
 
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TalonofAnathrax said:
But a hard-fought battle sounds a lot cooler to read...
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A battle we'd have likely span several updates, with player-people just getting more and more bitter to any complications because "should've retreated while still could".

And losing valuable man-meat to, essentialy, hubris.

I think the Praetorian commanding structure is better than that.
 
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