hapcelion
The Abyss gazed back
- Location
- n/a
Understood, will redo that. Switched out Precision for Basic Persuasion.
Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)
- Thread starter FractiousDay
- Start date
- Fantasy
- Location
- United Kingdom
I'm sure I've mentioned this somewhere but you can learn all (most anyway) of these things in future. Some will be more difficult than others, due to resources or availability of training, while others will require specific actions to learn. For example, there are a few old blademasters you could learn stuff like Battle Fury or Precision from.
Also spirity things like Blindsight will give exceptional prestige bonuses due to orcish culture
Amended to:
You can also choose to spend CPs on useful items like better gear or a mount in the next update as this is another way you might acquire agency, whereas otherwise you'd have to rely on your clan to equip you.
Also spirity things like Blindsight will give exceptional prestige bonuses due to orcish culture
you're not one yet, it's just your predicted career path
you can go into debt as much as you like as long as you're willing to take the consequences, but probably aim to keep it below 10?
Correct, you'd rank up basically. You already have basic tactics, if you're high ranked this will upgrade to the next level of tactics with ensuing narrative and mechanical effects
It's absolutely fine if it's unclear and I'm happy to explain more. It's designed to make you pick certain things. As a general rule, you're spending points on agency. Sometimes this agency is in trait or social status form, eg a curious low rank would have more agency than a traditional high rank. Other times this agency is on items, I'll check if I've worded this correctly, but for example you could take a mount option and that would give agency because you could cover more ground and travel further independently.
Amended to:
You can also choose to spend CPs on useful items like better gear or a mount in the next update as this is another way you might acquire agency, whereas otherwise you'd have to rely on your clan to equip you.
If you get higher raked either though work or origin you can have a party and just employ a hunter/mage/ whatever to do stuff for you as one example. If you get even more stuff you might become a clan leader etc
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- Location
- Czech Republic
[X] Plan Important orc
-[X] Leadership (+3 CP)
-[X] Battlesight
-[X] Elemental Connection
-[X] Battle Fury
-[X] Basic Persuasion
-[X] Basic Scholarship
Decided to make new plan after the post about obligations and debt.
The Burning Blade storyline sounds pretty good.
@FractiousDay Just two questions. Can we get the traits we didn't pick now later ? And would Basic Persuasion have any effect on elemental connection ? (since you need to convince elements to help you)
-[X] Leadership (+3 CP)
-[X] Battlesight
-[X] Elemental Connection
-[X] Battle Fury
-[X] Basic Persuasion
-[X] Basic Scholarship
Decided to make new plan after the post about obligations and debt.
The Burning Blade storyline sounds pretty good.
@FractiousDay Just two questions. Can we get the traits we didn't pick now later ? And would Basic Persuasion have any effect on elemental connection ? (since you need to convince elements to help you)
- Location
- United Kingdom
Yes I'm rather looking forward to it!
So these are 'skills', you can train them. For example you can train in Stealth if you find a trainer, which given Orcs do have rouges, shouldn't be too hard. It would be a lot more difficult to find a trainer for Arcane magic, but if you have enough time, resources and so on to devote to it you could probably get it yea. The two most difficult to acquire would be Battlesight and Elemental Connection because these would require a lot of training, meditation and connecting with the elements before you could get them. Comparably, these skills could develop into powerful ones relatively soon if you take them now. I made reference to Farseers in the Blindsight because you could become one if you trained this, basically a Jedi.
Now I'm pretty sure you meant skills but just in case you did mean traits you'll have a limited supply of 'slots' because otherwise you get bloat, someone can't be defined by 20 different traits, maybe like 5. You'll be able to acquire other traits in time, but again you have the opportunity next update to take some from the start like 'curious'. As an example, say you fight a paladin, if you had 'curious' you could start looking into the light immediately. However if you didn't you'd have to have a lot of exposure to lightwielders to actually have a reason to look into it.
In regards to basic persuasion, this would indeed have an effect. Usually elemental stuff is reciprocal, contract based etc, but with persuasion you could ask for more, bargain to less, engage with them more. You could begin to inspire or persuade the elements to do stuff themselves. Compare it to managing tricky clients who all want a contract or something, or say there's two elements fighting you might be able to persuade them to stop, rather than joining one side and crushing the other which would be another option.
hapcelion
The Abyss gazed back
- Location
- n/a
so we could be like Blademaster/Shaman? If so, I could get behind that.
- Location
- United Kingdom
So as I mentioned at the start the system I'm planning to use will generally prevent multi-classing comprehensively, simply because you can't maintain the levels of attention to diverse workstreams. A Blademaster is already slightly shamanistic, mainly using fire and air. I'm going to interpret their abilities in game by saying they use arcane magic, or at least arcane magic methods, to subjugate the elements to do this... possibly... not sure. However they aren't like shamans who spend most of the time doing elementy stuff. One of the things I've disliked in other quests is the ability of the MCs to be excellent commanders, administrators, spies, mages, apparently have side businesses and so on. At some point your skills are going to atrophy. One example of this in canon would be when Thrall decides that he has to spend more time on the elements so stops being Warchief and goes off to be in the Earthen Ring.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
...
Hmm.
Let me take a crack at this.
A question though, because I'm struggling to wrap my head around it. As things stand, negative CP seems to be objectively a good thing, but most of the options reduce our CP value. That doesn't jive with the whole "The more you start with, the more you must repay" theme you have going on here.
Did you mean perhaps to say that stuff like buying more skills increases our total Obligation? That we have a baseline of 1 expected from us, and actions that make us stronger represent greater investment in our character's training (But also higher expectations from him?) Because it doesn't seem to track that the more talented our character is, the less we're tied to our origins.
Hmm.
Let me take a crack at this.
A question though, because I'm struggling to wrap my head around it. As things stand, negative CP seems to be objectively a good thing, but most of the options reduce our CP value. That doesn't jive with the whole "The more you start with, the more you must repay" theme you have going on here.
Did you mean perhaps to say that stuff like buying more skills increases our total Obligation? That we have a baseline of 1 expected from us, and actions that make us stronger represent greater investment in our character's training (But also higher expectations from him?) Because it doesn't seem to track that the more talented our character is, the less we're tied to our origins.
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- Location
- United Kingdom
So my understanding is that ordinarily advantageous choices would have an associated cost. So if you wanted to choose a noble origin that means you'd be more capable than a peasant, richer, more connected etc. There's generally few reasons to choose not to have such advantages, everyone wants to be a wizard not a tramp so in character creation the questers are trying to spend their resource points. Here the more you go into debt the worse it would get.
In this quest I'm specifically linking increased power with increased obligations. Some of this is narrative, for example if you're the clan heir you're not going to be allowed to wander off an adventure. Therefore you gain CP by choosing an option which gives more obligations.
I think there might be some confusion (and yea Im the author so my bad) on the terminology. Some of this is narrative, like the clan heir example above, other parts of it are mechanical, where I've locked cool stuff behind the paywall to make you take on obligations in return for skills, traits, bonuses like a mount etc.
You exchange power for obligations. That's the main thing. In the character creation but just consider it as a mechanical thing, but understand that those mechanical choices (eg, being the clan heir) will have narrative effects.
Buying lots of agency giving things (eg low ranked to give agency, a pet, that sort of thing), puts you into CP debt, and indirectly does indeed create additional obligations.
Again feel free to run draft plans past me, happy to weigh in on them.
For example, plans 'Important orc' would give a large number of obligations because you'd be perceived as a prodigy, you'd swiftly be involved in many things, and really some of it should probably cost more because its so valuable but I'm not changing the costs now. That's probably the fastest track you could get. Comparably 'go out and explore' is also a very valuable plan, but one which will result is more adventuring rather than missions from the clan and clan advancement.
Note, if you came back with cool stuff you might be made heir anyway, just as if you're heir you might be sent out to get cool stuff.
- Location
- United Kingdom
Hm you might be right. Possibly my inclination to label negative CP as 'debt'. Not sure. In any case we've only got this and another update left of character creation so it won't be relevant afterward.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Good to know.
Anyway, with that clarification that buying extra stuff actually raises your overall obligation, I think I can come up with something.
- Location
- United Kingdom
FYI I'm thinking of doing the next update sometime tomorrow, so plenty of time for discussion and voting still. I'm currently going to write up a few bits of the first proper turns which will likely remain the same regardless unless you jump on an airship or something
- Location
- United Kingdom
@Alectai and @Doomed Wombat any other clarifications needed or plans of your own to submit? Would be interested to see if you can munchkin it any more than Important Orc already does.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Probably not, I'd only be able to properly munchkin it if we could take excess of 1 extra skill of each kind, which rather shuts down Munchkinying. Like from a mechanics stand point, the obvious one is the one with the highest CP, but this quest isn't about mechanics.
So...mmm
How much time do we have left to vote? Cause I'm going to be making a plan, because from a personal preferences standpoint I don't want to just be exclusive leadership and I would prefer an (if not easier) more obvious hero route, but I do like the other two plans that are in the lead I'm just split (though if it is a tie and you choose eh screw it combine the two I would not complain
)But yeah, I'll put out a plan which is probably akin to max CP investment?
[X] Plan: Adventurer of Azeroth
-[X] Background: Peons -1CP
-[X] Class Skills: Elemental Connection, Battle Sight, Battle Fury
-[X] Misc Skills: Basic Riding, Basic Scholarship
CP total: -4CP
Basically, as CP isn't so much drawbacks as obligations/shenanigans this plan is meant to throw us into the deep end. I suppose I could also term it the high octane build, which pretty much operates on being the peon who survived and thrived facing overwhelming odds.
As for choices, Elemental connection is a give, battle sight is great and battle fury because I hate mental effects that cause people to act like idiots. Riding because we need to get around and scholarship cause studying, however!
@FractiousDay
1. Would first aid/medicine fall under survival or crafting? Possibly different kinds, but the more patch self up sorta thing.
2. Does basic scholarship fall under "things that let us learn stuff more efficiently" or "general knowledge about the world beyond Orgrimmar."
I might change some things up, for example Riding is only useful if we have a mount etc. and I do want persuasion etc. so we'll see.
But yeah that's my plan, go nuts and start from the bottom, instead of getting all the advantages like those hoity toity clan people
- Location
- United Kingdom
Feel free to test the mechanics and themes of the quest as it is indeed my first time writing one so its a good learning experience.
Till Wednesday possibly? If there's lots of discussion I'm happy for it to continue, but if no one was commenting I'd move onto the next bit.
Basic first aid would be under survival, more advanced medical stuff would be under a new skill you don't have the option for yet.
The later, but it would give you a good standpoint of the start of historical training, for example the historical method
I do find this rather amusing, and if your plan wins then sure, but its interesting
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Danke, Changed me plan to survivalist (cause living is nice) and basic persuasion (cause having friends is also nice.)
@BeepSmile @SpaceSloth just in case this changes your ideas for the plans, as the value of knowledge has decreased for me a wee bit (which is add as a historian.)
[X] Plan: Adventurer of Azeroth MK 2
-[X] Background: Peons -1CP
-[X] Class Skills: Elemental Connection, Battle Sight, Battle Fury
-[X] Misc Skills: Survivalist, Basic Persuasion
New plan
Well I hope its amusing in a fun way not a "oh god this shit" sorta wayI do find this rather amusing, and if your plan wins then sure, but its interesting
And I do aim to be fun
- Location
- Czech Republic
[X] Plan Important orc
[X] Plan: Adventurer of Azeroth MK 2
[X] Plan: Adventurer of Azeroth MK 2
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- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
@Doomed Wombat
All my builds have been focused on getting some of that sweet sweet Arcane into our veins, and that's kinda the thing I'm focused on because of what we might do with it, and where that might take us, so I'm sticking to what I voted for.
@me if you have a plan with that in it and I'll consider it.
All my builds have been focused on getting some of that sweet sweet Arcane into our veins, and that's kinda the thing I'm focused on because of what we might do with it, and where that might take us, so I'm sticking to what I voted for.
@me if you have a plan with that in it and I'll consider it.
- Location
- United Kingdom
I'll note that Arcane would in general be a longer term choice which would require more investment, but would potentially also have a larger payoff. Being a stronger mage gives various non-combat utility benefits like crafting stuff, wards and various other bits of arcane magic. Comparably, unless you go the dark shaman route and start forcing the elements to do stuff (which is an entirely viable method and not even immoral imo) you'll be limited by the elements wanting to help you and stuff, though you'd still be powerful. I'll also note that elemental gives far more social bonuses to the Horde while arcane would give benefits to the Alliance races.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
[X] Plan: Adventurer of Azeroth MK 2
@SpaceSloth FYI if you vote again it removes your previous vote so you need to either edit in Plan important orc to your last vote or do a new post, since I assume you're voting for both plans.
@SpaceSloth FYI if you vote again it removes your previous vote so you need to either edit in Plan important orc to your last vote or do a new post, since I assume you're voting for both plans.
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[X] Plan Important orc
-[X] Leadership (+3 CP)
-[X] Battlesight
-[X] Elemental Connection
-[X] Battle Fury
-[X] Basic Persuasion
-[X] Basic Scholarship
-[X] Leadership (+3 CP)
-[X] Battlesight
-[X] Elemental Connection
-[X] Battle Fury
-[X] Basic Persuasion
-[X] Basic Scholarship
- Location
- United Kingdom
Well I'm also learning some new things so that's nice.
Incidentally everyone, how are we feeling about update speed, length, content etc? Given leadership options are being voted for and discussed I may bring in some ck2 quest elements eventually, but I won't be for the moment.
Rolen von Keng
Sleeping Green Bear
- Location
- The Wilderness
[X] Plan Important orc
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Great so far.