Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Von Horstmann is still an unknown quantity for us...is there any way that he (or any other sleeper agents) could screw up our clogging/unclogging process?


[X] Waystone Clog
If they double-clogged it they could lose us the waystone entirely, but it'd still bring back Vlag. If they unclogged it we'd know, and just clog it again. I can't really think of anything else they could do, especially without us noticing and stopping them first.
 
[X] Waystone Clog
Weeeeeeeeee!

We just have to keep in mind that there's going to be a lot of demons looking for us before they end up evaporating.
 
For the first time in a long while that I have given up on catching the front of the thread.

Problem I have with the current plan:
1) Mathilde is no expert on Waystones. Messing with one is not without risk.
2) We have no certainty that cutting the power flow will return Vlag rather than strand it in the warp permanently.
3) Assuming Vlag does return, we have no certainty that it will stay returned when we unclog the Waystone.
4) Assume a demon can sustain itself for 2 days (48 hours). Assume a demon (which needs no food or sleep) can maintain 15mph indefinitely. That puts an awful lot of people within striking range.

[X] No
 
I'd originally planned to vote for Light Chorus, but on reflection, the Waystone Clog plan sounds more feasible, and there's less things that can go wrong with it. So...

[X] Waystone Clog
 
Days do not mean anything in the Warp either. Slaanesh has the strenght it has.
The elasticity of time in the warp is not exactly an argument against the potential for chaos to send reinforcements. If anything, it's an argument for reinforcement, since they might well be fully reinforced in 10 seconds or have forgotten us by the time we get back.
Once it popped back into the immaterium it left the watchtowers and fortifications behind.
That's reassuring, at least. Still, we have the option for an army, we should use it if we can.

Also, there's still the secondary benefit of immediate grudge satisfaction for the Dum refugees.
 
My concern about clogging the Waylines is that the expedition is only just starting. We have several weeks worth of travel ahead of us, plus all the time we'll spend at Dum, and the uncertainty of our return trip. Add in how turns are six months long...I'm worried the need and want to do something now is overlooking the fact that we might not return for months, while Boney has said things would be fine for days.
 
My concern about clogging the Waylines is that the expedition is only just starting. We have several weeks worth of travel ahead of us, plus all the time we'll spend at Dum, and the uncertainty of our return trip. Add in how turns are six months long...I'm worried the need and want to do something now is overlooking the fact that we might not return for months, while Boney has said things would be fine for days.

If Mathilde does the clog and Karak Vlag is about to pop back into reality, the Expedition isn't going to be continuing on its way until that situation is resolved.
 
My concern about clogging the Waylines is that the expedition is only just starting. We have several weeks worth of travel ahead of us, plus all the time we'll spend at Dum, and the uncertainty of our return trip. Add in how turns are six months long...I'm worried the need and want to do something now is overlooking the fact that we might not return for months, while Boney has said things would be fine for days.
Clogging is the *do something now* option. We will clog it and then fight. If there is no fight we unclog and keep going is my understanding
 
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[X] Waystone Clog

the sheer meme potential of accidentally another dwarf hold is too good to pass up, and karak vlag might be able to assist the Dum expedition.
 
Mathilde randomly popping a Dwarf Karak back into existence is the kind of thing I'd be both surprised and not surprised by.
 
If Mathilde does the clog and Karak Vlag is about to pop back into reality, the Expedition isn't going to be continuing on its way until that situation is resolved.

We should clog it and hold the waystone, if karak vlag pops back in the daemons will assault us but we can make a prepared killing field using the land ships cannons, if it doesn't pop back in we'll have to unclog and leave.
 
There is a very real chance that this will make the Karag stay in the Immaterium permanently. But even in the best cases, attempting to conquer a Karag which is a forward base for Daemons is something that might be even worse than the Karag being permanently lost.
 
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If Mathilde does the clog and Karak Vlag is about to pop back into reality, the Expedition isn't going to be continuing on its way until that situation is resolved.
CLogging is the *do something now* option. We will clog it and then fight. If there is no fight we unclog and keep going is my understanding

I'm missing something. I thought clogging the waylines would result, eventually, in Dhar forming in amounts that could only be released as an explosion.
 
You should really be less salty. There are very good reasons for choosing the winning option. And it's not 'start counter spelling about 3 minutes earlier' like you're acting like.
I'm not sure how you're getting "you're too salty, so be less salty!" out of my saying that since the option I wanted lost, I hoped that my analysis was wrong and other people were correct instead.

Which, as it transpired... is difficult to establish since it would require comparing what actually happened to a counterfactual, and you can imagine a counterfactual turning out pretty much any way, good or bad. But it does look like it turned out a lot better than I feared it would. We got lucky with the 2 getting rolled for the intensity of the response, but luck is nothing to spit on. And however we got here, we're in a not half bad position now AFAICT.
 
I'm missing something. I thought clogging the waylines would result, eventually, in Dhar forming in amounts that could only be released as an explosion.
If we clog it, we are staying until it is reclaimed. That's why I want to wait until the way back when we have an army with a burning need to take Karak scale revenge on chaos.
 
This is a classic siege situation. They've effectively used magic to circumvallate and countervallate Karak Vlag so they can invest it.

The classic solutions to a siege are:
  • Reduce or assault the countervallations to destroy the attackers in battle
  • Reduce or assault the countervallations to distract the attackers where the defenders can sally and break the circumvallation
  • Lay siege to the attackers, who as a maneuver force will have almost necessarily been less-well-prepared for a siege than the defenders.

I'm certainly leaning toward disrupting the flow of magic, which will conveniently do all of these at once. The attackers in Karak Vlag are dependent on the magic to survive and have only a few days of "supply". Furthermore, the attackers are heavily dependent on their "fortifications" to keep the dwarves of Karak Vlag under control: I strongly suspect that Karak Vlag's defenders are substantially stronger than its attackers, militarily speaking, and the demons are just there to keep them from getting out to the boundary where they can work on dismissing the effect. I suspect that disrupting the ritual will therefore allow Karak Vlag's defenders to sally - or outright evacuate the Karak with all their stuff - and potentially even smash the demons on their own.

Either way, I'm leaning toward clogging the next waystone upstream. That'll take the initiative and force the Chaos forces inside Vlag to respond. Once we know how they've responded - likely by sallying to assault the Waystone - we can fight them. If we're really ballsy we could leave Asarnil and Deathfang outside to keep them from unclogging the Waystone while we assault the investing forces.

The clog may not be safe to leave in place for, like, months, but we don't need it to last that long. At worst, we might be able to get Cyrston (or even reinforcements from the Colleges!) up to set up a big ritual to "use up" the flow so Karak Vlag's flow doesn't resume while we unclog, clean, and re-clog it.
Assuming there is one stream the magic is flowing through if we choose to clog or channel away the magic, we should consider how far away from the Karak we should try to get before clogging/channeling.

Further away means that chaos has more time to reach, but to succeed, they need to clear the blockage.

What I wonder is this: the longer the demons are away from the Karak, do they quickly get weaker after the flow of magic is inturrepted?

And if they do, we have to consider the time taken to get back amd check to see if any dwarves are alive or not (could have been 10 days from the Karak's perspective).
 
If we clog it, we are staying until it is reclaimed. That's why I want to wait until the way back when we have an army with a burning need to take Karak scale revenge on chaos.

That comes with the big assumption of there being living non-Chaos dwarfs in Dun. I definitely would not wager on them being an army. Unless of course you mean our army, after it has been though the wringer of getting to Dun and back.
 
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