Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Eldon said:

@BoneyM if we take run are we running as fast as we can or as fast as the rangers can? Because with smoke and mirrors and shadow steed I am pretty sure we are faster than them. I feel it is important to know if that option is all of us going together or if it is us leaving the rangers behind to get out faster.

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As fast as Mathilde can. The priority in that case is alerting the Expedition, and Snorri would tell Mathilde to stop mucking around and magic her way to the Expedition if she tried to stick with the Rangers.

You know, the fact that Egrimm Van Motherfucking Horstmann is here only makes me even more and more paranoid, if this is actually chaos.

me.me.here said:

Well for starters, the expedition can send a runner/gyrocopter/scout back to the KA with the info that a.) Dum (and/or it's waystone network) is still intact enough to be pumping power, and b.) something in and around where Karak Vlag used to be is hijacking said power and using a memetic defense to cover it up.

That way, even if we don't come up with any better options than the ones we have available now we'll still be able to pick one of those options secure in the knowledge that even if we fuck up and die others will know of the problem and be able to muster up an army (or whatever else they might need) to come fix it.

I mean, just the first fact is in and of itself is a partial success for our expedition's primary goal (figure out what Karag Dum's status is) and something Thorgrimm/the KA as a whole would want to know.

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Okay, but Boney confirmed that the expedition is like a mile away. If we're not going to try to stop the thing right now then we should call for enough help to guard us while we try to stop the thing.

changing my vote
[X] Stand your ground

I prefer this out of the options that seem to have a chance at winning because this needs to be stopped ASAP if the expedition is already that close, but we can't try to stop it until we get some reinforcements to guard us.

Also, I was initially mistaken. I thought this was something powered off the Vlag waystones and going into Vlag, apparently this is something powered off of the Dum waystone sending power to Vlag, and thus is proof that Dum still holds.

Hope we get the chance to be smug at the Light and (non-Hubert) Celestial over this. Portents and prophesies are no match for walking up and having a look.

... Crap. Borek is not going to want to investigate Karak Vlag, isn't he.

Not if we give him the option to ignore it and pass it by, by picking the "Act Normal" choice. It does, after all, have absolutely nothing to do with his main mission. He'll prefer to go on high alert for the rest of the expedition, sure, keeping this new discovery and warning in mind... but to not poke at and investigate Karak Vlag as that might risk the expedition.

What if the next vote, after picking "Act Normal", is "What do you tell Borek?" We won't be able to tell him that this is directly necessary for his expedition to Karag Dum. We'd be motivated by curiosity and sheer worry over what is going on. But not motivated by the aim of the expedition. So... We'd either have to lie, or try to convince him of the worth of this (hello dice, and hello possible flip-floppyness on our part as we were so worried about Borek not being serious enough about the Karag Dum expedition, and now here we are trying to argue for a detour to explore a mystery) endeavor. ... Or, well, we just leave it be.

Do people want to leave Karak Vlag be -- or risk the chance of not investigating it further, as we have a mission to Karag Dum (and the Ice Witch thing) to fulfill?

me.me.here said:

See, here's the thing. Mathilde is strongly under the impression that some bad juju is going on, possibly in the form of a portal*, and that it's quite possibly aimed at the expedition. The Stand your Ground option involves calling for Asarnil/the Knights/assorted backup to come racing over - away from the rest of the expedition - to potentially disrupt any working.

I am reasonably sure that the bulk of the expedition is the larger and more important target compared to Mathilde & the assorted Rangers taking a look-see around where Karak Vlag used to be. As such I'd rather have a lack of personal backup than leave the steam-wagons more vulnerable.

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The thing is, if we go back to the expedition in order to concentrate forces... then what? Do we bring the rest of the expedition to the mountain, with those concentrated forces? Except, what if that just puts the rest of the expedition into the range of the trap or explosion range?

Or, as mentioned above... ... what happens if Borek just goes: "... Okay. Thanks for the warning. Now, we keep going."

Briefvoice said:

My problem with leaving is... then what? Seriously, then what?

We go back and tell them, "A portal to hell might be about to open; it's power source is about a mile away. No, we don't know where the portal will open. No, we can't do anything to stop it from here. The power source is about a mile away and I stopped investigating so I don't know where it's going. No, I'm not even sure it's a portal. I stopped investigating. Just try to be alert. Stay frosty."

We act normal and then what?

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... Probably elect not to poke it, thinking about it.

Borek: "Is it going to explode?"
Mathilde: "Well no. I don't know what it's going to do, but I think I should try to find out."
Borek: "Then we don't poke it. We bypass it and keep going."



Alternatively, we can stretch the truth and tell Borek that we absolutely have to investigate Karak Vlag in order to ascertain what is going on with Karag Dum. (And then if we don't find anything, well, that's kind of a problem for us. Because we told the Dwarfs that this needed to be dealt with. And then we were unable to do anything about it.) But then we'd have to be stretching the truth or lying. When the real reason is that we would be curious and concerned with what's going on -- rather than us being convinced that it is utterly key to Karag Dum.

Whereas, "Stand Your Ground" might maybe force the expedition's and/or the mystery's hand.

Of course, if nothing happens -- or worse, something does happen, and the expedition takes losses -- then we are going to be questioned whether this was worth it to do. Mrgh.

I really want to investigate Vlag, rather than leave it for way later, but... ((And I want to see if it has anything to do with the Chaos Wastes advancing further south. Or the time-thingy on Karag Dum as in canon. Or something.)) But. Hm. Currently more pre-disposed to "Stand Your Ground" because of this. Damn your curiosity.

Let us think things through slowly and rationally.

1) we won't be able to outsmart memetic Tzeench. As such, trying to anticipate memetic Tzeench is a fool's action. We should instead assume we are facing a good planner, not a "I am 33 steps ahead of you" magnificent bastard who had us within the palm of their hands since before we were born.

2) Any option we pick will be a gamble, thus we should pick the one with the best odds.

3)Whoever did the planning is good at subtle and slow. We know that. We do not know how good they are at anything else.

Thus: our best bet would be to kick the chessboard with a quick, ferocious pataboom. It is the gamble with the best odds, because we know it goes against the plans of whoever is hiding the mountains (or they wouldn't be hiding it) and there is a possibility it doesn't play on their strength.

Is it the best plan? No. Is it a good plan? No. But out of the ones I can think of, attacking quickly and ferociously before the other side can set the board any more is the option with the best odds. (Still low ones, I am fully prepared for this to be the end of all)

Thus

[X] Stand your ground

[X] Stand your ground

I hate this but I hate the other options more. The least bad of three very bad options.

I wonder what response Snorri would probably advise if Mathilde were free to ask?

[x] Stand your ground
- Snorri has a horn, you have Illusion to make the same sound except louder. Asarnil can be here within a couple of minutes, and the Knights soon after that. Stand your ground and see if you can disrupt anything that might happen.


I'm being extremely optimistic but I'm hoping that if we can shut down whatever this is we'll find an untouched unconquered dwarf hold hidden by powerful runic magic or at least a portal to where it is.

[X] Act normal

Seeing a lot of people going "oh, what's buying time and getting back to the expedition going to do for us?" Guys, you know we left a bunch of other wizards back with the expedition, right? Even if giving everybody in the expedition more time to prepare and more info to prepare with than just "oh fuck they're blowing a alarm horn super loud for some reason?" wasn't worthwhile (which, uh, it very much is IMO) being able to bring our full magical complement to bear on this might be very helpful indeed. We don't have to try to solo this ritual, guys. The choice isn't between soloing it now and soloing it later, the choice is between (potentially) soloing it right now with zero prep and tackling it with, unless I'm miscounting, ten other wizards backing us up. A good number of them Magisters.

Also, the Expedition is only about a mile away. Even if we move at a normal walking pace that's going to be like 15-20 minutes. Not a huge delay.

[X] Stand your ground

storryeater said:

But out of the ones I can think of, attacking quickly and ferociously before the other side can set the board any more is the option with the best odds.

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Attacking what? It's a solid stone mountain. The "Stand Your Ground" option isn't summoning reinforcements to go charge something, it's summoning reinforcements (away from the expedition) to come stand in front of a mountain with us. While we stand there and wait to see if the mountain tries something magical and attempt to single-handedly disrupt it if it does. That's not an attack. That's inviting them to attack us and seeing what happens.

Edit:

Garlak said:

... Crap. Borek is not going to want to investigate Karak Vlag, isn't he.

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I really, really don't see him going "let's leave a Chaos-related threat (that may be responsible for murdering an entire hold) at our backs while we go try to mess with Chaos elsewhere, what could go wrong with that".

So, thinking about it, if the expedition is so close, then maybe the issue isn't one of time frames but... whether or not we blow cover (so to speak) or not?

i.e. Act Normal and we get back soon anyway. Sound the alarm with Stand Your Ground, and we get reinforcements quickly anyway. Get The Hell out and we get back to the expedition really really fast.


The effect here isn't on time, but on how alarmed the rest of the Expedition we make.

It's about what effect we have on the rest of the people in the expedition, and what actions and reactions they take because of that.

Garlak said:

What if the next vote, after picking "Act Normal", is "What do you tell Borek?" We won't be able to tell him that this is directly necessary for his expedition to Karag Dum. We'd be motivated by curiosity and sheer worry over what is going on. But not motivated by the aim of the expedition. So... We'd either have to lie, or try to convince him of the worth of this (hello dice, and hello possible flip-floppyness on our part as we were so worried about Borek not being serious enough about the Karag Dum expedition, and now here we are trying to argue for a detour to explore a mystery) endeavor. ... Or, well, we just leave it be.

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I mean, "Hey there's some mad spooky stuff happening at the old site of Karag Vlag and it's very much aware of the Expedition" is the sort of thing that absolutely has to be addressed. Especially when your within leisurely walking distance of it. There's only two ways of dealing with a hazard and that's either dealing with it or going around it but either way, the rest of the Expedition needs to be told so we can actually formulate a plan.

[X] Stand your ground

Garlak said:

So, thinking about it, if the expedition is so close, then maybe the issue isn't one of time frames but... whether or not we blow cover (so to speak) or not?

i.e. Act Normal and we get back soon anyway. Sound the alarm with Stand Your Ground, and we get reinforcements quickly anyway. Get The Hell out and we get back to the expedition really really fast.


The effect here isn't on time, but on how alarmed the rest of the Expedition we make.

It's about what effect we have on the rest of the people in the expedition, and what actions and reactions they take because of that.

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I considered it this way at first as well, and decided to support running like hell at first, but I realized that if this is aimed at the expedition, the expedition is close enough that we don't have much time to disrupt it before whatever this is activates.

[X] Stand your ground

Fayhem said:

Attacking what? It's a solid stone mountain. The "Stand Your Ground" option isn't summoning reinforcements to go charge something, it's summoning reinforcements (away from the expedition) to come stand in front of a mountain with us. While we stand there and wait to see if the mountain tries something magical and attempt to single-handedly disrupt it if it does. That's not an attack. That's inviting them to attack us and seeing what happens.

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That's just not true. We summon forces to be ready and then continue investigating.

All that power is going somewhere, and I don't think it's at all a stretch that we might be able to figure out where. Especially once some more wizards show up.

If nothing else, forget the Waystone Network for a minute... what about the mental effect? Magic doesn't come from nowhere. That mental effect is either tied to some object or originating from some caster, and if Mathilde continues to look I bet she can figure out where it's being cast from. There's your lead that isn't buried underneath a mountain.

TaliesinSkye said:

I wonder what response Snorri would probably advise if Mathilde were free to ask?

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My take it would be something along the lines that Rangers scout for the main force and don't try to do things that may bring consequences to it. Like that ranger told us during K8P scouting murder run. But as he also said, we have different tools, we are not "just" scouts.

I will freely admit, a large part of why I voted "Stand your Ground" is because the uncertainty of just the time until the next part is out is going to be terrible, let alone if it gets prolonged further.

I really want to figure out just what the hell is going on.

[X] Stand your ground

Briefvoice said:

That's just not true. We summon forces to be ready and then continue investigating.

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Every choice is going to entail continuing to investigate this; there's no plausible outcome where we just shrug and keep moving. The difference is in how we do it and how much info/prep time the rest of the Expedition gets first.

Briefvoice said:

If nothing else, forget the Waystone Network for a minute... what about the mental effect? Magic doesn't come from nowhere. That mental effect is either tied to some object or originating from some caster, and if Mathilde continues to look I bet she can figure out where it's being cast from. There's your lead that isn't buried underneath a mountain.

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Why exactly would the mental effect that's protecting the ritual not be tied to or produced by the ritual?

[X] Stand your ground

[x] Stand your ground

And now I'm back to this. To be honest, I imagine we're going to have to deal with something whatever we do, and I don't really see the time difference being too important. So honestly, I want everybody alert and ready as soon as possible.