Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

veekie · Sep 11, 2020

DragonParadox said:
To be honest I think the notion of a magic item that works against daemons is inherently flawed. Of the four types of major daemon one has magic resistance YES, the other is the wizard daemon and the last two are also capable of dispelling. In that regard items are always inferior to wizards so we might as well focus on more general dangerous situations.

Pretty much this yeah.
You can't rely on an item for daemons, because items have ass for dispel resistance and spell penetration and every big daemon are either casters or countermagic.

tapkomet · Sep 11, 2020

Well, that romance scene was... inoffensive, I suppose. Panoramia remains a bit eh for me. Oh well.

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[X] [COLLEGE] Aqshy item emulating Dragon Breath (20 Favor).

I assume at 20 favor they'll make it hit harder, or activate faster, or hit a larger area (or some combination of the above) than just a normal Dragon Breath spell... all of which ought to be pretty good

Verdom · Sep 11, 2020

The talk about Regimand in this update makes me want to go on a short Adventure with him now that we've really come into our own.

zxzx24 · Sep 11, 2020

[X] [COLLEGE] Item of Light's Demand: 5 Favor

wildwill · Sep 11, 2020

[X] [DWARF] No purchase
[X] [LIBRARY] Dark Lands: Extensive + Esoteric Imperial (200gc), Marauder Tribes: Extensive Imperial + Extensive Dwarven (200gc), Karaz Ankor: Esoteric Dwarven (150gc, 4DF), Enchanting: Esoteric Imperial (50gc, 2CF)
[X] [PURCHASE] Commission a painting of the duckling club together from an artist.
[X] [COLLEGE] No purchase.

SuperSonicSound · Sep 11, 2020

[X] [COLLEGE] Aqshy item emulating Dragon Breath (20 Favor).

Travler66 · Sep 11, 2020

[X] [LIBRARY] Dark Lands: Extensive + Esoteric Imperial (200gc), Marauder Tribes: Extensive Imperial + Extensive Dwarven (200gc), Karaz Ankor: Esoteric Dwarven (150gc, 4DF), Enchanting: Esoteric Imperial (50gc, 2CF)
[X] [DWARF] Runesmith briefing on Karag Dum (2 gallons AV)
[X] [PURCHASE] No purchase.

TimEd · Sep 11, 2020

[X] veekie

DragonParadox · Sep 11, 2020

You know if we do end up going dragon's breath it will be yet another case of Mathilde seeking out dragon-themed solutions to her problems.

Chair
Altar
Staff
Wand
???

Rafin · Sep 11, 2020

Pre-chapter post:

BoneyM said:
No. Outside of Ulthuan, most dragons see mortal societies as sources of food and treasure, and most mortal societies see dragons as sources of glory and treasure and sometimes slaves. Introducing Cython to the Colleges would definitely result in someone going through the archives to see if they have a Scroll of Binding for an Ice Dragon.

Is this fact not known to Cython? Because getting stuff for Cython from somewhere he can't safely go is definitely a way to pay him back for favors. Hell, it doesn't even just have to be human polities. We are a Stealth Wizard. He could give us all kinds of fetch quests. Even if some of them might still be too high level for us (like stealing from Tomb Kings).

consequences said:
Hopefully they would wait to actually use it for long enough that important phrases like 'functionally reclaimed a Karak', 'officially recognized power with a signed treaty with a Dwarf king', 'killed the last warboss to lead a Waagh against said king ', and 'That's a Grudging' could be uttered and understood.

1 and 3 would make them more eager to enslave him. And I don't actually know how true 4 is. I'm not sure Belegar has really shown Cython any genuine appreciation for being a Karak reclaiming force second only to Mathilde. All he's given is a wary non-aggression pact and a bit of mountain that isn't officially part of a Karak's hallowed halls.

storryeater said:
I believe we have some very recent word of QM on that subject....

They usually still do things where the reward is by roughly an order of magnitude more likely than the absolute disaster. Like, Altdorf still exists and so does each of the eight Colleges, even after over a century of Wizard shenanigans.

Alratan · Sep 11, 2020

[X] [LIBRARY] Dark Lands: Extensive + Esoteric Imperial (200gc), Marauder Tribes: Extensive Imperial + Extensive Dwarven (200gc), Karaz Ankor: Esoteric Dwarven (150gc, 4DF), Enchanting: Esoteric Imperial (50gc, 2CF)
[X] [DWARF] Runesmith briefing on Karag Dum (2 gallons AV)
[X] [COLLEGE] Aqshy item emulating Dragon Breath (20 Favor).

That romance scene produced exactly the response in me I expected, unfortunately. Hopefully future ones will be sufficiently spectate from the rest of the narrative that I can skip over them.

Chlof · Sep 11, 2020

Deleted

defenestrator · Sep 11, 2020

[X] [LIBRARY] Dark Lands: Extensive + Esoteric Imperial (200gc), Marauder Tribes: Extensive Imperial + Extensive Dwarven (200gc), Karaz Ankor: Esoteric Dwarven (150gc, 4DF), Enchanting: Esoteric Imperial (50gc, 2CF)
[X] [PURCHASE] Commission a painting of the duckling club together from an artist.
[X] [DWARF] Runesmith briefing on Karag Dum (2 gallons AV)
[X] [COLLEGE] Item of Light's Demand: 5 Favor

BeepSmile · Sep 11, 2020

[X] [LIBRARY] Dark Lands: Extensive + Esoteric Imperial (200gc), Marauder Tribes: Extensive Imperial + Extensive Dwarven (200gc), Karaz Ankor: Esoteric Dwarven (150gc, 4DF), Enchanting: Esoteric Imperial (50gc, 2CF)
[X] [DWARF] Runesmith briefing on Karag Dum (2 gallons AV)
[X] [COLLEGE] Aqshy item emulating Dragon Breath (20 Favor).
[X] [PURCHASE] Commission a painting of the duckling club together from an artist.

Fanhunter696 · Sep 11, 2020

[X] [LIBRARY] Dark Lands: Extensive + Esoteric Imperial (200gc), Marauder Tribes: Extensive Imperial + Extensive Dwarven (200gc), Karaz Ankor: Esoteric Dwarven (150gc, 4DF), Enchanting: Esoteric Imperial (50gc, 2CF)
[X] [DWARF] Runesmith briefing on Karag Dum (2 gallons AV)
[X] [COLLEGE] Aqshy item emulating Dragon Breath (20 Favor).

I still want the explosion thingy though...

[X] [COLLEGE] Big Lore of Fire explosion item (20 CF)

veekie · Sep 11, 2020

BoneyM said:
In theory, it shouldn't be possible. The Grudge process involves someone going to the Grudgee and laying out what the problem is, and if they said 'wait I didn't do that' then there'd be a lot of investigation to figure out what's going on. If for whatever reason an innocent Grudgee doesn't communicate that when they have the opportunity, then that's Playing Silly Buggers and they deserve everything they get. If the Grudgee is a being that doesn't get the courtesy of a warning, like a greenskin or a Skaven or whatever, then they're still enemies of the Karaz Ankor so it's not that big a deal. If someone plays a really long con where they manage to trick the entire process into getting a Grudge levelled and executed against an innocent party, then the responsibility for that is entirely on whoever that puppet master was and they get Grudged twice, once for the original Grudge and once for the trick, and while reparations would be made to the innocent Grudgee, the culpability would be considered that of the trickster, not the Dwarves involved.

*Eyes the War of the Beard*
That was so eminently avoidable and they could have doubleteamed Team Malekith if only they'd freakin communicate.

BoneyM said:
Zhufbar has a Hall they can't use because the fire dragons calling it home refuse to be evicted.

Shame, if only they just had a nice chat and worked things out.
Though I suppose dwarves take a dim view of squatters and the dragons could not be made to care

BoneyM said:
Earlier, you wrestled with the question of how one best asks someone on a sort-of date, until Wolf rendered your careful preparations moot. Now, the question is how one asks someone on an actual definite date. After some thought you stumble upon a possible solution that would be substantially easier: you just pretend that the sort-of date was a definite date and act like this is date number two. Panoramia has shown herself to be very insightful, so you're hoping that she'd pick up on all the unspoken parts and know where everyone stands.

Is that unfair to her? You're feeling like that might be unfair to her. It's also not really putting your best foot forward. Okay, back to the drawing board.

Mathilde, collapsing superpositions is not how romance normally works.

...I think.

BoneyM said:
What little you remember of how such matters are gone about in rural Stirland is of little use, as you doubt Panoramia would recognize the significance of a carved wooden spoon.

So whats the significance of a carved wooden spoon?

"Got Wood"?

BoneyM said:
Your memory of how things are done in the Colleges are equally useless, as romantic fads amongst Apprentices would come and go on a regular basis and would rarely go beyond an individual College.

Nevermind an individual College. It'd change per batch!

BoneyM said:
Eventually you settle on following Wolf's lead and track her down in the fields, which is fairly straightforward since she's flaring Ghyran like a signal flare as she draws power from the mountain Waystones.

Wolf: "My human is hopeless at humaning. I help."

Cython: [Observes the mating displays of human wizards by studying the flares]

BoneyM said:
The look she gives you is long and thoughtful, and by the quiver of her lips it's clear she's fighting back a smile or even a laugh, but she eventually says yes so you're able to tell her your idea for the details and flee as soon as she accepts that too. Her acceptance means you only spend most of the rest of the day hiding in the privacy of your dragon chair as you wait for your nervousness and embarrassment to abate. It's so much easier in the books.

Cython: *Scribbling* "Beings of Ulgu express great awkwardness after being trapped into honest displays of emotion and manage it by concealing themselves thoroughly. Fascinating. Will require more samples."

BoneyM said:
"No hat?" you ask as the two of you head out.

She shakes her head. "It's almost Summer. I only ever get sunburns in Winter."

"Ah. An Arcane Mark?"

"Something like that. It runs in the family, being hardy in the summer and very not in the winter. Handy for working the fields, not so much the rest of the time. I'm just glad the Expedition succeeded before it got too far into autumn."

You nod. "That's why you holiday through winter."

Huh neat. Seasonal stat variations explains why the Jades just shut down come Winter.

Must kinda suck to live through the Winters like that, though I suppose good food, good drink and warm hearths deal with much of the worst of that.

BoneyM said:
"Not so much. It does peak twice a day at dawn and dusk," you say with a wave at the rising sun, "but there's no real low points because there's almost always plenty of shadows and boundaries to be found. I've read theories that the moment between years should be powerful for Ulgu, but there's six different dates for that in the Old World alone."

"Prescriptivists," Panoramia says with a snort.

"Assume a spherical calendar in a magical vacuum..."

Why not use astrological pivot points like the Equinox and Solstices?

BoneyM said:
Climbing Karagril would have once been a formidable feat, but to construct the aqueducts to water the fields the Dwarves scouted the best route and carved stairs into the steepest parts of it, turning it into a challenging but enjoyable hike. You're able to keep a decent pace as you've kept yourself in good shape ever since you first picked up a greatsword. Panoramia proves able to match you, which you partially ascribe to being on her feet all day and partially to the benefits of Ghyran, since she only ever seems to need a few moments with her staff buried in soil to find renewed energy.

Methinks Mathilde might be a wee bitty underestimating the rigors of farmwork.

BoneyM said:
The sun has climbed high in the sky by the time you reach the tarn, and the beauty of its silver waters is matched only by how refreshing it is to drink from them after a long walk. The two of you circle the water to find a suitable place to rest, and end up sitting with your backs against a boulder, watching the shimmering water and resting your legs. "So," Panoramia eventually says. "What is it about me that got your attention?"

It's a question you'd considered yourself. "You're fun," you say. "You're fun, you keep up, you're not intimidated, and you're a good person. And it's easy and pleasant to spend time with you."

You hazard a look sideways at her, and there's a hint of blush to her cheeks. "Well, I'm glad you think so," she says. "I thought you were put out that I managed to see through your Grey Wizard-ness."

"I..." You sigh. "It can be useful when I'm working, the reputation and the general aura can save a lot of time. But when I'm not, it can really get in the way of getting to know people. Even some people who are alright with Wizards in general are unnerved by my Order. This," you pause to flick a stone at your shadow, "certainly doesn't help."

Everyone finds the Grey Wizard when there's some new and terrible crisis. Though for people who actually know Mathilde would probably have noticed her shadow is a little scamp more than anything else.

Its mentioned as often as not as playing pranks and general silly buggers when its not strangling people as part of Dread Aspect.

Panoramia isn't doing anything wrong, just needs to work on timing and figure out when she's On The Job and when she's off duty and needs someone who doesn't care.

BoneyM said:
"Ah," she says, nodding. "I suppose I see what you mean. Though it could always be worse," she leans forward and starts to undo the laces on her boots, "one common one for us is being really uncomfortable with shoes. I can't imagine working around that. I mean, soil is all well and good, but there's all sorts of things that are unpleasant to step on, or in."

You consider telling her of some of the worst of the Marks Ulgu has to offer, and decide against it. "My Master lost his beard to one," you say instead. "Now there's just smoke coming out of his chin."

She pauses and looks over at you. "That must look so strange."

Mathilde developing skill Mood Reader.

This is casual talk so you'd talk about annoying Marks, like Barefoot and Flicker, rather than Metal Revulsion and Forgettable.

BoneyM said:
"You'll have a chance to meet him, he'll be at the Duckling Club meeting."

"The August Order of the Ducklings," she corrects with a smile. "Was he a good Master?"

"Yes," you say automatically, then consider it. "Yes. Often busy, but... well, when my magic first manifested, he was working nearby. When he collected me, I kind of clung onto him. By the time he had wrapped things up and brought me to Altdorf, I'd decided I was going to go into the Grey College and he'd teach me and I'd be able to do all the wonderful things he could do. And once I'd finished my Junior Apprenticeship, he took me on." You smile. "I suppose life would have went very differently for me if a Wizard from a different College had been closer."

Mathilde spent her formative years around Grey College James Bond. This explains much, considering her Master is one to chain cast S&M.

Quite explains the lurid romances too. Those also tend to be blended in with action packed stories.

BoneyM said:
"Sounds like it must have been nice," Panoramia says, kicking off her now-unlaced shoes and stretching her legs, which you take the opportunity to admire. "I had a Master - still do, I suppose - but it was always Ma that taught me. She didn't want to be the one that broke the link, mother teaching daughter since the dawn of time. I think Teclis broke that link when he revealed we'd been worshipping the Jade Wind instead of an actual deity, but I quickly learned not to get involved in that mess."

Oh huh. that does kind of explain a bunch of what we've seen Panoramia wind up doing.

How does that even work out in terms of responsibility?

BoneyM said:
She sighs, and then starts to unbutton her robes. "Anyway..."

You can feel your face heating up as a thousand risque scenarios rush through your head. "Uh, Panoramia, what- what?"

She looks at you oddly. "We're up here to swim, aren't we?"

Oh. Oh.

Mathilde has a potty mind.

BoneyM said:
"I only had the hike and the view in mind," you say faintly, only mostly relieved. You should be looking away, but find yourself unable to as she shrugs off her robes. Even though the shift underneath doesn't reveal much more than her robes did, they were still her underthings.

Don't worry, its not streaking through an occupied castle.

BoneyM said:
"I don't even know how to swim."

She smiles at you. "Didn't you learn to swim as a child? In a dam or a dew pond or something?"

You shake your head. "Of course not. That's tempting Manhavok."

Though you put up a resistance that's half-hearted at most, you can't deny that the water and the company are both tempting, and in the end Panoramia does manage to cajole you out of a few of your uppermost layers. The waters of the tarn are quite bracing, fed as it is by meltwater from above and a spring from below, providing a nice counterpoint to the sun now high in the sky. You have to admit that once you start splashing about in the water you quickly forget how exposed you are, though that forgetfulness did not carry over to how relatively exposed Panoramia is.

An excellent view as it turns out.

That said I'd say its a tossup whether a given body of water in Stirland is full of ghosts, a bottomless chasm, or full of poop.

BoneyM said:
"It's my privilege to introduce Lord Magister Melkoth, Rector of the Grey College, and Magister Regimand Speiseschrank, my former Master." The resident Wizards introduce themselves one by one, automatically falling into the standard practice of going by rank and seniority. If anyone is intimidated by having the Commander of the Grey College's Battle Wizards present, they don't show it. Few last long as Wizards that can't put on a brave front.

Ducklings: [Screams Internally]

BoneyM said:
"First matter is the only piece of unfinished business I was nervous about leaving behind - the Ice Dragon question."

"Ice Dragon?" Regimand asks.

"Its going by the name of Cython, and it's happy to leave us alone as long as we leave it alone. I'm hoping that in the long run we can talk it into something more mutually defensive, but for the short term, I'm happy with nonaggression and loaning it the occasional book."

"As in, a Hysh Emperor Dragon?" Regimand asks.

"Handy sort," Johann says, with deliberate casualness. "Wiped out its share of the local foes and then some."

"Far from the worst neighbour we've had," Panoramia agrees.

:3
Johann and Panoramia double teaming it with Mathilde to troll Regimand.

BoneyM said:
As for other potential problems, the Okral matter seems to be getting no worse than simmering

Dwarves on both sides would be glad to see it over, but the very same old codgers that are making trouble are the same ones who know how far to push and no further before Grudgings.

BoneyM said:
but the Marienburg situation looks like it'll drag on for the foreseeable if it doesn't come to a head. Seems like they've been funding bandits in the Empire, and Gods help them if they get it into their head to start the same thing around here.

Ah dammit. Of course they double down.

BoneyM said:
"The Winter Wolves have started lending their initiates to the riverboats, just for the trip to Barak Varr and back," Hubert reports. "That way the Barak Varr marines can focus elsewhere. They've already had a few clashes, though it could just be the usual lawlessness of the Border Princes."

"Only time it's ever peaceful is just after a Waaagh goes through," Melkoth says. "And even then, not for long. Nobody wants to be the last one to emerge from the Vaults and find that all the relatively good land has already been reclaimed."

Oh yeah thats probably a fun day for the bandits, attack a merchant ship, finds a squad of Ulricans who hadn't had a good fight for most of a year.

BoneyM said:
"I'm glad they're working with Barak Varr. The more of a unified front we can present against Marienburg, the more likely it is they'll back down."

"Not necessarily," Regimand says. "Marienburg isn't a united front, the Directorate is ten heads of the wealthiest Merchant Houses, four High Priests, and the head of their College. The ten families want to show off to make sure the lesser families don't get any ideas about supplanting them, and the High Priests tend to egg them on so that their own influence grows as the Merchant Houses expend theirs. Even if they don't get anything out of it, they might keep up with their games as part of internal peacocking."

"Bloody Marienburg," Max sighs, to general agreement.

Okay so lets see:
-10 Merchant Heads - These guys will want to stick it out to the end, because they've invested enough into this that withdrawing would signal blood in the water as everyone will take a shot. But they're bleeding gold. At some point it'd be LESS painful for them to bring it to a confrontation, and the danger is if this point is before their peers eat them alive.

-4 High Priests - They'd profit from the brinkmanship, provided things don't escalate to the point of a navy at the door. However they may not have the most accurate view of how willing the Dwarves are to throw down. Stressed people are very generous in prayer.

-Head of College - No idea, but superficially this mess is bad for business.

BoneyM said:
While it would be quite nice to lay down keels of Dwarven River Monitors to start utterly dominating the Aver, the expense would be ruinous and every Dwarven shipwright is already spoken for due to Barak Varr's riverine expansion. So instead the Hochlander is sent to work with the existing Boatmens Guild to expand their training practices. There's trouble early on as the boatmen don't want to disrupt the unspoken agreement with river pirates of 'surrender peacefully and everyone goes back to their families', but the Hochlander manages to play on their patriotism by pointing out that the pirates are taking the money of a foreign power to disrupt the Empire's inner workings, of which the boatmen are a fundamentally and irreplaceable part.

Taking a leaf from the Canal workers huh?
Home grown pirates are one thing, but catspaws of foreign powers are beyond the pale.

BoneyM said:
The boatmen are fairly capable of self-defence already, as beastmen, forest goblins, and wild animals don't give an option of surrender, and the normal operation of a vessel requires a number of heavy and sharp implements. So it doesn't take much to hone that natural edge into something fierce with the help of a few ex-River Warden trainers. Supplementing that is a crate of Stirland Repeaters distributed throughout the EIC fleet, as a single Repeater used properly should be enough to give the impression of a staggered volley of fire - enough to dissuade even the most desperate of pirates.

The Hochlander also sees to the construction of a pair of scaled-down Wargalleys to act as escorts to the most vulnerable cargos, as the river barges will never not be a sitting target, no matter how well-traind their crew. Even at cost arming the entire crews with Repeaters would be hugely expensive, so they're instead armed with Blutdorf crossbows. They're not exactly Wolfships, but they should serve as an answer to riverine banditry.

Accurate automatic fire does act as a rather strong deterrent. Pirates are here to make money and the first half a dozen in front will die.

BoneyM said:
As you skim through the rest of the paperwork from the EIC, the results are plain to see: even though banditry has expanded significantly over the past few months, the EIC's losses have remained steady where everyone else's have increased significantly.

...holy shit, the EIC is shadowing Stirland Riverwarden patrols, armed with Repeaters and marine training, AND they're still taking losses from banditry.

That sounds increasingly like a mercenary army more than piracy.

BoneyM said:
It's not just the Aver that's been targetted, as word from elsewhere in the Empire is that the Stir and the Upper Reik are also seeing upticks in hostile activity. It seems Marienburg has found a way of expressing their displeasure that suits them. There's no corresponding increase in Barak Varr's rivers; you're not sure whether that's a good thing or not. Dwarven displeasure would certainly escalate matters, but might swiftly convince Marienburg to back off.

I'm not sure what IS their game plan anyway. Set enough of the Empire on fire that they have to negotiate?
Acting in order to be SEEN acting by their peers while at the same time maintaining sufficient deniability that the people would be writing angry letters to their Elector Count rather than rallying round against foreign attacks(or at least not crossing the lines that'd get Barak Varr to move)?

BoneyM said:
You do, however, have the pleasure of reading that attempts at banditry on the Moot's portion of the Aver had a swift and brutal response, including a written apology to the town of Scheibbs for the Halflings not being able to fish all the corpses out of the river before they bobbed downstream.

The little guys are the most vicious because they don't have an inch to give.

BoneyM said:
The Sylvanian campaign remains calm; the two remaining Vampiric holdouts are no longer tearing chunks out of each other, and Roswita seems content to maintain the greatly tightened stranglehold over the towns. Refugees are streaming out of the cordon, all claiming to be opposed to Vampiric rule but more likely unhappy with being on the losing side, and they're currently being resettled in Drakenhof. It shouldn't be long now; either the holdouts will be weakened enough that Roswita can roll right over them, or they'll be desperate enough to give one final battle and be crushed.

I'd bet the refugees are also keenly aware of just how many Battle Wizards they're down barrel of and don't want to be the last one to leave when they determine that the towns have been depopulated enough to just...reduce the place.

BoneyM said:
Junior Apprenticeship is developing control over the ability to touch the Winds. For some people this means learning how to reach out and touch it, for others it's learning how to stop. They usually get a Master when they reach regular Apprentice, that's when they start learning how to actually do things with magic instead of learning how not to be killed by magic. Senior Apprentices have enough control that they can be allowed out of the mono-wind environment of the Colleges. Some of them join their Master on their missions, some of them go adventuring on their own, most just use it to explore Altdorf.

How many years does that take anyway before they're allowed out?
Sounds like they'd have a big case of stir crazy by the time they can leave safely.

Also I assume for Mathilde's purposes if she gets an apprentice it'd be from the Senior pool?
How'd they wind up without a Master in that case?

Vebyast · Sep 11, 2020

inb4 we request a "Wand that casts Dragon Breath" and get one of these:

NexusEye · Sep 11, 2020

veekie said:
So whats the significance of a carved wooden spoon?

"Got Wood"?

Lovespoon.

Credit to @NuclearConsensus for figuring out what it was earlier in the thread.

Rafin · Sep 11, 2020

I really enjoyed the date, even if it was a chill and innocent one. The way you peppered world-building in was nice too. Some highlights:

BoneyM said:
You wait until she's finished the intricate magical ritual she's performing on the freshly-sown field

Confirmation that she's not just spamming some spell.

BoneyM said:
and flee as soon as she accepts that too. Her acceptance means you only spend most of the rest of the day hiding in the privacy of your dragon chair

I like how just inviting her to a hike means that Mathilde goes on a hike of her own, up and down a mountain and well into the valley fields.

BoneyM said:
"Assume a spherical calendar in a magical vacuum..."

This line right here. Beautiful.

BoneyM said:
It's a nice sound.

And so it starts.

BoneyM said:
chatter about Karak events and College gossip.

Is it weird that I want to know what kinds of events and gossip?
How does Panoramia know about the latest gossip anyway?

BoneyM said:
You hazard a look sideways at her, and there's a hint of blush to her cheeks. "Well, I'm glad you think so," she says. "I thought you were put out that I managed to see through your Grey Wizard-ness."

Take that, thread!

BoneyM said:
By the time he had wrapped things up and brought me to Altdorf, I'd decided I was going to go into the Grey College and he'd teach me and I'd be able to do all the wonderful things he could do.

Woah. That's a lot more free decision than I expected. I mean, yeah, little Mathy definitely was influenced at a young age, but that would have been inevitable without some strict protocol of coldness and impartiality. If Mathilde's experience is typical then my respect for the Colleges just grew a bit.

BoneyM said:
Even though the shift underneath doesn't reveal much more than her robes did, they were still her underthings.

Interesting cultural tidbit that Imperials swim in long sleeved undergarments even in non-mixed-gender situations. I thought that maybe Mathy's prudishness was Stirlandian and then reinforced by Grey College faculty for multiple good reasons. But if a practically minded and adventurous Jade from another province feels the same then it's probably a good indication of wider attitudes. (P.S.: I know that there might be a Doylist reason as well, but this is still canon now, with canon implications).

DragonParadox · Sep 11, 2020

Rafin said:
How does Panoramia know about the latest gossip anyway?

Halflings, they are very good at gathering rumors and general skulduggery, mostly by looking innocent. The halfling mafia is no joke, though I don't think we have many of that lot around.

Simon_Jester · Sep 11, 2020

veekie said:
*Eyes the War of the Beard*
That was so eminently avoidable and they could have doubleteamed Team Malekith if only they'd freakin communicate.

I mean, the overall pattern fits Boney's description. The dwarves, apparently raided by "elves" (druuchi), send a messenger to the Phoenix King explaining the problem and making it clear that if they don't find the guilty party or make recompense, that's a-Grudgin' for them.

Then the Phoenix King shaves the envoy's beard off, which translates into dwarven as "never send us an envoy again and oh yeah, kill us all please."

Not gonna lie, I think I'm on the dwarves' side in this one. Fighting the war over the shaving of one dwarf would have been absurd, but the closest historical analogy I can think of is when the Khwarizm Shah killed Genghis Khan's trade envoys, and that did NOT end well for the Shah.

deathofrats0808 · Sep 11, 2020

Simon_Jester said:
I mean, the overall pattern fits Boney's description. The dwarves, apparently raided by "elves" (druuchi), send a messenger to the Phoenix King explaining the problem and making it clear that if they don't find the guilty party or make recompense, that's a-Grudgin' for them.

Then the Phoenix King shaves the envoy's beard off, which translates into dwarven as "never send us an envoy again and oh yeah, kill us all please."

Not gonna lie, I think I'm on the dwarves' side in this one. Fighting the war over the shaving of one dwarf would have been absurd, but the closest historical analogy I can think of is when the Khwarizm Shah killed Genghis Khan's trade envoys, and that did NOT end well for the Shah.

Mm. It's a little more complicated than that. Accounts vary from book to book, but so far as I can tell, it roughly goes: Druchii attack Dwarf caravans, dressed as Asur --> High King Gotrek Starbreaker sends an envoy to Ulthuan --> Said envoy demands weregild from the Phoenix Throne --> Caledor II is an arrogant ask, and tells the envoy people don't get to demand things of him, he answers pleas --> Gotrek sends a reply saying he doesn't make pleas, and doubles the weregild --> beard shaving commences (reason varies by book) --> Dwarfs declare war and attack Tor Alessi.

LilyWitch · Sep 11, 2020

Omegahugger said:
Hmm... IRL Mayan Calendars were round.

If we assume that Warhammer's general tendency towards "takes superficial elements from real life, but makes them 'cooler'" holds, then there's a real chance that the Lustrian calendars are spherical, so if we want to study this subject they'd be were I'd go.

It makes sense too if the Old Ones had the "real" dates for the start and end of a year. There's a decent chance that they or their servants were the first to think of measuring something as insignificant and minor as singular days.

Ya'll are joking 'bout spherical calanders. Meanwhile GW and CA are over here saying Challenge Accepted.

agumentic · Sep 11, 2020

Simon_Jester said:
I mean, the overall pattern fits Boney's description. The dwarves, apparently raided by "elves" (druuchi), send a messenger to the Phoenix King explaining the problem and making it clear that if they don't find the guilty party or make recompense, that's a-Grudgin' for them.

Then the Phoenix King shaves the envoy's beard off, which translates into dwarven as "never send us an envoy again and oh yeah, kill us all please."

Not gonna lie, I think I'm on the dwarves' side in this one. Fighting the war over the shaving of one dwarf would have been absurd, but the closest historical analogy I can think of is when the Khwarizm Shah killed Genghis Khan's trade envoys, and that did NOT end well for the Shah.

I believe later books made this situation more nuanced - by the time beard shaving commenced, dwarfs already burned one of the elven colonies. Negotiations weren't really a possibility then.

Shinji117 · Sep 11, 2020

Simon_Jester said:
I mean, the overall pattern fits Boney's description. The dwarves, apparently raided by "elves" (druuchi), send a messenger to the Phoenix King explaining the problem and making it clear that if they don't find the guilty party or make recompense, that's a-Grudgin' for them.

Then the Phoenix King shaves the envoy's beard off, which translates into dwarven as "never send us an envoy again and oh yeah, kill us all please."

Not gonna lie, I think I'm on the dwarves' side in this one. Fighting the war over the shaving of one dwarf would have been absurd, but the closest historical analogy I can think of is when the Khwarizm Shah killed Genghis Khan's trade envoys, and that did NOT end well for the Shah.

It's a little more complicated than just "Then the Phoenix King shaves the envoy's beard off": In the army books, the Dwarf ambassador drew his axe on the Phoenix King, which seems pretty bad. If the elf ambassador had drawn his blade on the Dwarf High King, things probably wouldn't have ended well for them either.

Swearing by his beard that he would not leave until justice was served, he drew his axe in front of the king, demanding recompense. Since the Sundering, none have ever dared to draw a weapon in anger within the palace of the Phoenix King.

The War Of Vengeance books change things so the ambassador doesn't threaten the Phoenix King, but did make it so the Dwarfs (lead by Snorri, the High King's son) raze an elf city and slaughter the inhabitants before the ambassador reached Ulthuan.

'A fine antechamber, my lord.'
A nerve trembled in Caledor's cheek, the king unable to tell if the dwarf was now mocking him.
'Is your sty so much grander then?'
'I am no pig,' the ambassador repeated. 'I am Forek Grimbok, dawi of Karaz-a-Karak and representative of the High King.' He brandished the letter. 'And I bring his terms in this missive.'
Caledor arched an eyebrow, half distracted by drinking his wine. He drained the goblet and gestured to a nearby servant to bring another.
'Terms?' he said, focusing his full attention back on the dwarf.
'Yes,' said the ambassador. 'For peace. That is why we are here. That is why we have travelled across the Great Ocean from the Old World.'
Caledor smiled, nodded. 'Peace, is it? Where was this peace when Kor Vanaeth was attacked? Does your king have an answer for that in his letter?'
The ambassador struggled to hide his surprise. News about Kor Vanaeth had arrived only that morning, sent by Liandra Athinol, the city's custodian.
'It does not,' admitted the dwarf. 'Nor have I heard of such an attack.'
'Burned to the very stone,' said the king, dangerously.
Some of the other dwarfs shifted uncomfortably at the obvious change in mood. Several of their hands strayed to the hilts of their axes.
Imladrik hissed through clenched teeth, 'You should have let me disarm them.'
'Don't be silly, brother,' Caledor admonished. 'Forek, here... that is your name, isn't it? Yes, that's what you said. Forek, here, has said he knew nothing about it. Nor, apparently, did his king. It seems his subjects are roaming his lands killing and sacking cities according to whim. Is that about right, Forek?'
The ambassador's jaw hardened. He eyed the spearmen either side of them, caught the gaze of another dwarf who merely shook his head.
'I have said I know nothing of that.' He showed the letter again. 'Again I say, here are my High King's terms.'
Caledor leaned back in his throne.
'High king? Seems an odd turn of phrase for such a diminutive race.'
'He is lord of the Karaz Ankor, greatest dawi of the realm!'
'Yes, yes, I understand.' Caledor waved away the impassioned protests of the ambassador. 'Well then, you had better read these terms before more cities are put to the torch, hadn't you?'
The ambassador looked momentarily confused, but then cleared his throat and was about to read when Imladrik stepped from the throne's dais and took the letter.
'Tromm,' he muttered under his breath with a nod to the dwarf, who replied in the same way.
He glared at Caledor, who seemed disinterested but there was a glint of something unpleasant in his eye, an idea forming that Imladrik hoped would not come to fruition. The Master of Dragons read swiftly. His expression darkened further when he was done.
'Well then,' asked Caledor, 'what are the dwarf king's terms?'
Imladrik met his gaze, knowing the response before it was given.
'He asks for recompense and apology for the hostilities directed at his people. Furthermore, he demands a cessation to all further violence against the dwarfs.'

In the first version, I find both sides to be pretty bad (the Ambassador should 100% not have tried to threaten the PK, but the PK should probably have just thrown out the ambassador rather than shave him). In the second and more recent version, the dwarfs are...almost entirely in the wrong after having murdered a city and I can pretty easily see why Caledor thought the Dwarfs were just mocking him with the ambassador demanding recompense for the dead and a cessation of hostilities right after an elf city was torched, and that the War was already on.

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