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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Artemis1992 said:
wat.

That's his issue? Not the sacrifices, not the thousand blasphemies we created, not the blaise attitude towards the gods in general, not that we are forcing several severly opposed religions into working together with a mix of promises and veiled threats?
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That is how the rolls came out yes. Also keep in mind most of the blasphemies are not for public consumption. It's not like he had a nice chat with Qyburn followed by talking theology with a Master Faceless assassin.
 
DragonParadox said:
Strange Fires ​

Twenty Eighth Day of the First Month 294 AC

"I can send my own agents to the task," you reply after a moment's thought. It would not be easy to shake free enough trusted agents, especially given the troubles in Sallosh, but you are nothing but sincere when you add. "Given what you have told me of the priests of Qohor and that which they worship, Excellence, I would name their doings the concern of all forethoughtful souls."

The erstwhile lord of the Mysterium nods gravely. If he is surprised at the offer he does not show it. "I welcome the aid of your own agents Your Grace." It has been a long time since the Westerosi courtesy sat awkwardly upon his tongue.

As he bows preparing to withdraw, you raise a hand to forestall him a moment more. "Justice Malarys is organizing a small dinner tonight to which I am certain he would welcome your presence."

He looks at you in askance, but only for a moment as you go on to delicately explain the happenings in Gogossos and Lady Caleris' part in them, the implication clear. The dinner tonight is to keep the lady from brooding over fears or regrets. Though Zherys Naethyreon might not be possessed of any great wellspring of sympathy, he understands the horror his fellow dragon lord went through. He will be there, of that you are certain.

There is one other lord in Sorcerer's Deep who could not be more different from the Archon of Volantis, devout where the other would wield gods as tools at worst and treat them as allies at best, a man of steel not sorcery, but in one thing Andrew Dayne is alike to the mage lord of the east. At your last meeting, he too had not hesitated in naming you a king. Hopefully that will be enough to make an ally of him. Hopefully what he has learned of magic and other gods here in the Stepstones has quieted his doubts about your plans for Dorne and all the Seven kingdoms.

***​

You meet in the Great Sept, not by chance but by design. This is where he had chosen to have this meeting, not in the great nave where even now the morning service celebrates the Madden who with rosy fingers brings the dawn. Rather, you find him in an annex of the scriptorium, surrounded by the scent of wax and vellum and ink. At his side is an elderly septon with steel grey hair and a weather beaten face that might almost recall a begging brother if it were not for the his rigid posture and the look of instinctive appraisal in his eye. You suspect Septon Erek has spent more time following armies than seeing to the needy.

As you drop your glamor,Ser Andrew greets you with a bow and a faint grimace. "Applogies for pressing you to subterfuge in your own home, Your Grace. I thought this would be a better place to discuss matters of faith than some wine-sodden tavern."

"And you did not wish to risk accepting my hospitality lest you be recognized and news should perhaps reach King's Landing," you finish. You certainly could have provided the Dornish Lord with a glamor, but given that he apparently thinks it is an imposition for you to wear one, you doubt he would have taken to the offer in good cheer. "Have you considered my words last month then?"

"I have and I have walked the streets of your fair city speaking to priests and healers, smiths and sorcerers," the Lord pauses as though uncertain how much more to say or perhaps how to say it.

"No need to polish every word my lord, I know you have concerns and I would rather hear them now and all at once than play courtly games. I confess I am a touch still weary of those from this mostil." The words are mostly a lie. Court has been quite expedient and efficient this morning, but the jest lands just the same.

"Most of what I have seen I have found goodly, if perhaps misguided for some of the priests who choose to bow to strange and otherworldly powers rather that the gods of men." From the expression, he had likely met Yss. Well you are certainly not going to contest that the World Serpent is strange and otherworldly. "But," he continues, "some of what I have seen in the Temple of the Lord of Light, whom you gave as an example of an eastern god when last we spoke..."

You muster your arguments for the need for some to be sacrificed so that their souls are placed beyond the reach of dark patrons and that their deaths may serve some purpose to atone for the horrors they had performed in life.

"The temple serves as a brothel that sees to the basest needs of the flesh outside of the vows of marriage under the power of any god and that they call holy."

That is what troubles him? You knew of course that the local temple of R'hllor had taken to that side of its business this time with free courtesans being paid for their services, everything certified under the same rules as any other brothel. It simply had not occurred to you that you would find objections to that of all things in this meeting. From the tone it is less the existence of such establishments and more the fact that they function under the aegis of a god.

"I have heard also, Your Grace, that the rites of Drunken God of Tyrosh may also be practiced in your realm also," the septon interjected. "Are such men and such powers who profit from the basest impulses of man trully fit to wield so perilous a weapon as sorcery?"

What do you reply?

[] Point out that there are rules governing the work of courtesans just as much as any profession in Sorcerer's Deep and your whole realm, For the benefit of all involved. So long as they are respected what does it matter if those who profit are sorcerers priests or gods?

[] To go against the rites of any religion so long as it does not being harm to others or to the realm would be and egregious act on the part of the crown on matter what the rites in question are

[] Write in

OOC: Yes, the sacred prostitutes now get paid a wage instead of being slaves, so it's actually a pretty good choice for those inclined to enter that line of work. The Red Faith is a large and generally trusted institution.
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Here's an edited version of the chapter, DP.
 
Does anyone remember what we concluded to do with Viserys spell-granting?

Just since we are talking about things the unenlightened would consider blasphemy.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Does anyone remember what we concluded to do with Viserys spell-granting?

Just since we are talking about things the unenlightened would consider blasphemy.
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I think we determined it would begin to happen naturally in the coming months as those who devoutly worship Viserys begin to develop Divine spellcasting abilities.
 
DragonParadox said:
"I have heard also, Your Grace, that the rites of Drunken God of Tyrosh may also be practiced in your realm also," the septon interjected. "Are such men and such powers who profit from the basest impulses of man trully fit to wield so perilous a weapon as sorcery?"
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[] You would judge gods for choosing who to grant their power? I would, though usually for greater reasons, such as murder and slavery, but I'm really surprised you presume to do so. Most priests I talked to would consider that blasphemy.
-[] Regardless, I trust priests and gods who do not break my laws to wield sorcery, as much as any born or learned mage and I see no reason not to in these cases.

Something along those lines, maybe?
I mean, holy shit, I wonder if the Septon even realizes he is shit-talking real no-nonsense gods who can currently listen in if they want to.
I have no fundamental problem with that half of the attitude, but it's a big surprise to me.
 
[X] Point out that there are rules governing the work of courtesans in our realm, just as much as there are any other profession, and they are intended for the benefit of all involved. So long as the courtesans are respected, treated well, and paid a fair wage, what does it matter if those who profit are sorcerers, priests, or even the gods themselves?
-[X] Explain that in Sorcerer's Deep, and indeed the entire realm, worship is allowed for any god we have determined to not be a threat to humanity. If the followers of a god choose to worship in a manner which harms none, and their god accepts it, perhaps even chooses to empower those worshipers, who are we to tell them they are wrong?
 
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[X] Point out that there are rules governing the work of courtesans in our realm, just as much as there are any other profession, and they are intended for the benefit of all involved. So long as the courtesans are respected, treated well, and paid a fair wage, what does it matter if those who profit are sorcerers, priests, or even the gods themselves?
-[X] Explain that in Sorcerer's Deep, and indeed the entire realm, worship is allowed for any god we have determined to not be a threat to humanity. If the followers of a god choose to worship in a manner which harms none, and their god accepts it, perhaps even chooses to empower those worshipers, who are we to tell them they are wrong?
 
[X] To go against the rites of any religion so long as it does not being harm to others or to the realm would be and egregious act on the part of the crown on matter what the rites in question are

Feudal types like being reminded that we aren't 100% absolutist. Viserys believes in the rule of Law (even though it's a very, very loose set of laws when it comes to restricting his own personal power) and this is reassuring to people who want a Lordship of their own someday.

On another note, I would have loved to remind him that those Gods actually exist and that making enemies of them for such a petty reason is rather ridiculous...
 
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DragonParadox said:
You underestimate the courage of House Dayne. These are the people who wielded Dawn and you guys should keep in mind it does not feel like a petty reason to him. The notion of temple prostitution is culturally offensive to him.
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This is a great bit of storytelling, DP. Funny as Andrew's hangups are, it's a good way to demonstrate just how different Westerosi culture can be from Essosi standards. I never would have imagined the conversation going in this direction.
 
DragonParadox said:
You underestimate the courage of House Dayne. These are the people who wielded Dawn and you guys should keep in mind it does not feel like a petty reason to him. The notion of temple prostitution is culturally offensive to him.
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For literally thousands of years these religions and cultures have practiced prostitution in various ways, and stripping the autonomy of these regions and denominations of their right to organize within the confines of the realm's laws which demands fair compensation for workers, would be equally offensive. Especially as in this context it's not Baelor the Blessed unilaterally outlawing prostitution, and then rolling it back as he did it in a disorganized fashion and was poleaxed by the rioting that unfolded afterwards, but outright saying it is wrong for other religions to practice in accordance to their scriptures.

What if Benerro finds something especially egregious in the treatment of certain groups by the Faith of the Seven extremely offensive? Should we then rule in his favor? Or should we make it clear that only the things which offend a practicing Andal are deemed worthy of the Crown's intervention?

The arrogance is astounding but not unexpected. This is why I told Egoo we needed to pay close attention to Westeros during the second conquest. The entitlement of the people ruling there is cataclysmic.
 
Crake said:
The arrogance is astounding but not unexpected. This is why I told Egoo we needed to pay close attention to Westeros during the second conquest. The entitlement of the people ruling there is cataclysmic.
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To model Andrew's reaction I basically went 'OK what could a Western European Lord circa the Wars of the Roses find offensive about this place?' I then refined to to Dornish cultural peculiarities a bit and rolled the dice on it for interactions. The xenophobia and yes arrogance when it comes to foreign cultures is pretty par de course.
 
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i dont expect this to win but...
Plan: Are you fucking serious?.
-[X] Explain that in Sorcerer's Deep, and indeed the entire realm, worship is allowed for any god we have determined to not be a threat to humanity and whose worship doesn't directly break imperial law. If the followers of a god choose to worship in a manner that harms no one, and their god accepts it, perhaps even chooses to empower those worshipers, who are we to tell them they are wrong?
-[x] You would judge ACTUAL GODS for choosing who or how to grant their power? especially considering that any such thing is heavily regulated by the law of the realm. Most priests I know would consider that blasphemy.
 
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>Is waist deep in blood and fiendish subjects
>Gets complaints about how rival religious group chooses to wield its influence

I suppose it is better Viserys' authority is recognized instead of decried but damn, are those willful blinders awfully snug.

[X] TalonofAnathrax
 
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