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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Crake said:
The literal end of that entire paragraph, and update as a whole, was that he could not lie to himself that he did not see Viserys as a legitimate Sovereign in his own right, as opposed to a criminal/mad dog that needed to be put down. He couldn't basically make us his Straw Targaryen, essentially, unlike Robert.

But even with that, even acknowledging we had some legitimate right to rule (somewhere, not necessarily Westeros, though the former is a dangerous, dangerous stance to take considering who we are), he still said he would support Robert.

And, months later, without us having any idea of what's going on in his head, he starts doing things that make it look like he's drawing closer to our faction.

@egoo If you want my honest opinion, rather than delegating an action to a bunch of characters who will awkwardly play the "you know what I'm doing here but you can't acknowledge it outright because it would absolutely be treasonous to do so" game, maybe we should just finally approach Ned Stark and get him onsides. Casually mentioning we just rescued five thousand Thenns from an army of wraiths and one of our Companions slew an Other champion, and then go "oh and by the way, have I mentioned that I'm rightful ruler of Westeros lately?"

Rip off that band-aid finally.
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Should we mention the other things we've saved Westeros from lately as well? You know, the devils, demons, Illithids, Fae, and so on?
 
Crake said:
The literal end of that entire paragraph, and update as a whole, was that he could not lie to himself that he did not see Viserys as a legitimate Sovereign in his own right, as opposed to a criminal/mad dog that needed to be put down. He couldn't basically make us his Straw Targaryen, essentially, unlike Robert.

But even with that, even acknowledging we had some legitimate right to rule (somewhere, not necessarily Westeros, though the former is a dangerous, dangerous stance to take considering who we are), he still said he would support Robert.

And, months later, without us having any idea of what's going on in his head, he starts doing things that make it look like he's drawing closer to our faction.

@egoo If you want my honest opinion, rather than delegating an action to a bunch of characters who will awkwardly play the "you know what I'm doing here but you can't acknowledge it outright because it would absolutely be treasonous to do so" game, maybe we should just finally approach Ned Stark and get him onsides. Casually mentioning we just rescued five thousand Thenns from an army of wraiths and one of our Companions slew an Other champion, and then go "oh and by the way, have I mentioned that I'm rightful ruler of Westeros lately?"

Rip off that band-aid finally.

Edit: On the other hand... that could take time, and it would also likely result in the North becoming intensely interested in Southron politics if we failed. Which could be a bad thing. Mostly for the Starks, of course, but also because it would be distracting for us.
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Honestly, this whole situation is much like Danellle's.
We may pretend not to see each-other, but eventually we'll have to face the facts and rip the band-aid off in a confrontation.
It only depends for how long we'll do shit about that before deciding "it's time".

And I'm, personally, of the opinion that we should do it after we deal with the current infestation of the Reach.
Simply because the matters of Fey are distracting enough of themselves.

But on the other hand, that would put is just before the start of Reconquest, and... well, it would potentially give a bit of forewarning to the people we don't want to have such.
...For all that opsec is impossible to keep with that many Lords un-Mindblanked, anyway.
 
Crake said:
I think he'll get the point after the first world ending threat we styled on.
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So... drop a chest of ice from the Other we killed on his desk? Or something similarly pointed?
Sorry, I just like being dramatic about these kinds of things, and with how deep his loyalty to Robert runs it feels appropriate.
 
We could tell him we will be waiting till Robert's death, and by the way his heirs are all bastards, which we will swear to before a heart tree, and also Stannis is supporting us too.

I think he would be willing to support us post-Robert then.
 
We are still not talking about what REALLY matters around here.

Tywin Lannister in a cage death match with Hoster Tully to decide Westeros' next top model.
 
egoo said:
Wait.
I have an idea.

@DragonParadox, if we grab some remains of the people that got turned to rights, can we reasonably expect we'd be able to pay OGs in sacrifices to release them from Others?
Via the body-soul links, however much of those remain?
Or do a general ritual of the sort with Yss, him being a Deity with Life/Death Domains?

300 wights isn't really all that many considering the amount of dead in the North, but it's still a force to try and deny to Others, imo.
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Unfortunately not. If dragging back souls from damnation were that easy the Lower Planes would be less crowded.
 
DragonParadox said:
Unfortunately not. If dragging back souls from damnation were that easy the Lower Planes would be less crowded.
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Would we still have a way to target-divine the exact locations of all these Wights using the pieces of their old bodies?

Past whatever basic misderections (assuming there may/will be some more advanced and specific traps/Mindblank-likes spread around if they choose to ambush) Others may have set, anyway?
 
egoo said:
Would we still have a way to target-divine the exact locations of all these Wights using the pieces of their old bodies?

Past whatever basic misderections (assuming there may/will be some more advanced and specific traps/Mindblank-likes spread around if they choose to ambush) Others may have set, anyway?
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You could scry them normally using bits of their old bodies as focuses, but it would be one at a time. There are of course spells and effects than can deceive scry but short of mind blank Viserys does not know of anything that works perfectly every time. It would be skill against skill and power against power.
 
DragonParadox said:
You could scry them normally using bits of their old bodies as focuses, but it would be one at a time. There are of course spells and effects than can deceive scry but short of mind blank Viserys does not know of anything that works perfectly every time. It would be skill against skill and power against power.
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False Vision – d20PFSRD

www.d20pfsrd.com www.d20pfsrd.com
This and the greater version seem to be reliable too.
Though limited to Scrying, not useful against indirect options like Divination and Commune.
 
DragonParadox said:
You could scry them normally using bits of their old bodies as focuses, but it would be one at a time. There are of course spells and effects than can deceive scry but short of mind blank Viserys does not know of anything that works perfectly every time. It would be skill against skill and power against power.
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If freeing souls is not an option (yeah alright I should've phrased stuff better) will a curse-like ritual with lots of sacrifices thrown in on our side work?

Since we have the bodies, and the link's strong enough to carry curses even between different bodies (see Tor and us being able to curse his Snek-form with the skull of the original body)?

Can we damage/kill the Wights from afar using the divine mojo of Yss/OGs/the Ferryman/R'hlor and the bodies as the foci (Best fitting domains, also take sacrifices)?
 
As a side note, I'm well aware we probably have better uses for sacrifices than killing off 200 of random undead, especislly when the Others will have untold thousands marching from beyond the Wall regardless.

It feels shortsighted to leave mid-level "fresh" Undead for them to use readily available regardless, since so far most of their servants they had to either make directly or rouse from one slumber or the other.

I feel like if we don't at least try weakening/killing the Wights, Others will find a way to use them effectively enough in short order.
 
egoo said:
If freeing souls is not an option (yeah alright I should've phrased stuff better) will a curse-like ritual with lots of sacrifices thrown in on our side work?

Since we have the bodies, and the link's strong enough to carry curses even between different bodies (see Tor and us being able to curse his Snek-form with the skull of the original body)?

Can we damage/kill the Wights from afar using the divine mojo of Yss/OGs/the Ferryman/R'hlor and the bodies as the foci (Best fitting domains, also take sacrifices)?
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The trouble with curses is that most do not do straight damage, even your trusty curse staff only weakens people, it does not kill. Creating some kind of wasting curse that afects undead and then using that should be posibile given all the necromancers you have available, but it would take at least a full research action maybe more.
 
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DragonParadox said:
The trouble with curses is that most do not do straight damage, even your trusty curse staff only weakens people, it does not kill. Creating some kind of wasting curse that effects undead and then using that should be posibile given all the necromancers you have availibile, but it would take at least a full research action maybe more.
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Hm.
Will "is unable to make more Undead through killing sentient creatures" be in line with the effects a Curse can have on one, given we have the original body?
And/or if we push the boundaries by throwing lots of HD at any particular sacrifice-eating Others-hating Deity of ours?
 
Duesal said:
We've been doing that for a while now. The Iron Throne tried to strongarm the Night's Watch into no longer dealing with us while dangling 50,000 IM in front of them as incentive. The Night's Watch told them to fuck off, and we gave them 50,000 IM from our treasuries, which they then used to refurbish the castles. We've since sent our magics to help build up the ruins and as well. Should be almost completely done by now.

The next step is equipping the Night's Watch with magic items and layering anti-Other wards on the castles.
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We were explicitly matching the current offer and what Robert usually gave them. It was 50,000 IM and one bent copper.
 
Smartphone said:
Did we transport all of these people via the Moonchasers or did we have some other trick up our sleeves to transport them?

I ask because roughly a week ago I talked to @Azel about Moonchaser transport capacity for Black Knights, and the number given was 500 of them per Moonchaser. This appears to conflict with our ability to airlift out 5000 Thens with three Moonchasers in one round trip, so I am assuming there is something I am missing and would like some clarification.
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A few things:

1. A Black Knight is a Large creature, meaning the size of a Minotaur. Thenns are Medium creatures.

2. The figure I gave used a chunk of the cargo capacity, but not all of it so that it's sustainable to haul that many along on longer missions without cutting into space for supplies and ammo.

3. The Moonchasers also have limited extra quarters that we can use to house Thenns for the few hours of flight this takes.

4. We can also cram more Thenns into the mess hall, the sickbay and the brig.
 
DragonParadox said:
That is theoretically doable yes.
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In light of this, @Duesal, would you be adverse to emptying out the Larder in order to render the ~200 Wights that ran away...
Sterile, for a lack of better word?
:V

It's not like I'm all too tied to the idea, but it seems sensible a precaution if we aren't going to hunt them down ourselves any time soon.
 
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egoo said:
In light of this, @Duesal, would you be adverse to emptying out the Larder in order to render the ~200 Wights that ran away...
Sterile, for a lack of better word?
:V

It's not like I'm all too tied to the idea, but it seems sensible a precaution if we aren't going to hunt them down ourselves any time soon.
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You would still have to research a curse that does that to undead. It is very esoteric.
 
egoo said:
In light of this, @Duesal, would you be adverse for emptying out the Larder in order to render the ~200 Wights that ran away...
Sterile, for a lack of better word?
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Are you sure that's worth it.

There are still enough Wildlings left besides the Thenn and Mance's group that they can propably make many times that just with the material here north of the Wall.
 
As for the Ned Stark matter, the best thing to do right now would be.... absolutely nothing.

Ned is more a brother to Robert then Stannis and Renly ever were, which is a mutual feeling. We only managed to flip Stannis by pitting his sense of duty against his loyalty to Robert, but Ned doesn't have any handle strong enough to override his much stronger loyalty. Putting any more pressure on the Starks is more likely to result in Ned doubling down on his Robert support and going south to become Hand on his own accord.

Just let the man be if you value his life. He is precisely where he has the highest chance of surviving the conquest.
 
DragonParadox said:
You would still have to research a curse that does that to undead. It is very esoteric.
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Aight, nevermind then :/
Artemis1992 said:
Are you sure that's worth it.

There are still enough Wildlings left besides the Thenn and Mance's group that they can propably make many times that just with the material here north of the Wall.
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It would've been I think, DP's post above notwithstanding.
Aside from being a "Hey, Others, think you've won something here? WRONG! MWHAHAH!"-move from us, really, these guys have been explicitly made by the breath of the dragons... that we killed.
Others undoubtedly have more in store, but I doubt they'll send those at the remaining Wildlings.
Spaying these would've made making more just a tiny bit harder.
 
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