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It would theoretically require eight compatible people channelling exactly equal amounts of Winds. Anything short of that will result in Dhar at best and eight simultaneous miscasts at worst.
Yes… and?
Dhar is barely an annoyance to Mathilde. And given people live in Sylvania it is clear that low-dose exposure is no significant problem.

Miscasts are not all equal. Battle Magic miscasts are usually catastrophic and sometimes worse. Petty magic and below miscasts are mild enough that apprentices play "What's your worst" as something other than bragging about dodging death.

Also could you explain what 'compatible' means. I can't find anything in the lore I can interpret as wizards being more or less compatible with one another.
 
Mathilde, as a Grey Magister does not trust almost anyone. It won't surprise me if the three people she really trusts in her whole life is Belegar, Anton and Abelheim.

Also, the I don't trust her assertion reeks alot of the kind of distrust of Roswitta or Johann before we got a deeper look into them as characters.
That make the distrust of Johann look sensible by comparison.

Edit: Ninja'd
Shrug.
Her goals are not our goals. Her College is not our College.
Gretels' motivations are as far as we know gaining wealth, and being across the EIC info network- necessarily including privileged commercial operations- would present constant temptation to misuse that information for personal gain. I wouldn't trust her with that temptation.
 
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Shrug.
Her goals are not our goals. Her College is not our College.
Gretels' motivations are as far as we know gaining wealth, and being across the EIC info network would present constant temptation to misuse that information for personal gain. I wouldn't trust her with that temptation.

And you would trust a randomly generated handler? If anything this is an argument to recruit a Grey Perpetual. Nor do we have any indications that Gretel is particularly dedicated to the Amethyst College, nor do we have any reason to disbelief Gretel either in or out of character when she revealed how hands-off her relation with the Amethyst College was, a reveal that Gretel would have gained nothing as far as we can see , to share with the Club if she wanted to deceive.

And if the argument is recruit no-one at all, may I remind you, Mathilde, right now is at the stage where she literally left off the Sylvania Campaign results to the end of the time period? Eventually, she would probably need a right-hand second-in-charge as the network grows, and newsflash she trusts none of them, not even a Grey Perpetual.

By the way, almost certainly no-one's goals that Mathilde would recruit, none of her agents, none of her handlers, would be Mathilde's goals. Not even a Grey Perpetual that Mathilde has time to mould.
 
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I'm not arguing against, or for, a perpetual. Or an outsider.
But a Grey perpetual might be my preference, yes.
I have specific concerns about Gretel, yes. Maybe not deal-breaking, but I'm not keen to hand her the keys to an info-financial empire.
 
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Why would we hire a money-oriented thief type to handle our company?

Like, we didn't like Johann or Roswita due to bad first impressions. We've social'd Gretel. We know what she wants, and how she'd be okay with getting it. What she wants is money. What she's okay with is theft.
 
Why would we hire a money-oriented thief type to handle our company?

Like, we didn't like Johann or Roswita due to bad first impressions. We've social'd Gretel. We know what she wants, and how she'd be okay with getting it. What she wants is money. What she's okay with is theft.
Took the words out of my mouth.

I'd trust Gretel with our life. Even with our money. With other people's money, though? Bad, bad call.
 
I'd trust Gretel with our life. Even with our money. With other people's money, though? Bad, bad call.

Which would be a concern if we were on the 1AP option, and therefore actually handling large scale investments. The EIC funds she has access to for operating an intel network, is technically 30% of our money, so if we trust Gretel with our money..... that's hardly other people's money, isn't it? In any case, we are employing Gretel to run specifically the Intelligence network, not the trading part of the company.
 
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Took the words out of my mouth.

I'd trust Gretel with our life. Even with our money. With other people's money, though? Bad, bad call.
She's hardly a common thief. She's only robbed the enemies of men and she's also a devout Morrite who to a degree aligns herself with that priesthood.

I'm not saying we should groom her, but I feel like you are selling her short.
 
Which would be a concern if we were on the 1AP option, and therefore actually handling large scale investments. The EIC funds she has access to for operating an intel network, is technically 30% of our money, so if we trust Gretel with our money..... that's hardly other people's money, isn't it? In any case, we are employing Gretel to run specifically the Intelligence network, not the trading part of the company.
Intelligence which she could use to steal other peoples money. In the unethical business deals, scamming, sense. Investors, traders, business owners, etc.
 
Yes… and?
Dhar is barely an annoyance to Mathilde. And given people live in Sylvania it is clear that low-dose exposure is no significant problem.

This would not be low-dose exposure, and this would be a scenario where at least seven other non-Mathilde people will be involved.

Miscasts are not all equal. Battle Magic miscasts are usually catastrophic and sometimes worse. Petty magic and below miscasts are mild enough that apprentices play "What's your worst" as something other than bragging about dodging death.

Any miscast is potentially fatal. 'What's your worst' is bragging about dodging death.

Also could you explain what 'compatible' means. I can't find anything in the lore I can interpret as wizards being more or less compatible with one another.

Willing and able to put complete trust in each other. Imagine an orchestra where the instruments explode if there's even a moment of disharmony, and how much trouble you'd have recruiting musicians for that orchestra.
 
Which would be a concern if we were on the 1AP option, and therefore actually handling large scale investments. The EIC funds she has access to for operating an intel network, is technically 30% of our money, so if we trust Gretel with our money..... that's hardly other people's money, isn't it?
"Putting a known acquisitive thief in charge of a corporate-based espionage team" is basically an invitation for her to commit corporate espionage, or at the very least to use her intel to enrich herself. Remember, one of the things we can use the EIC intel network for is this:
[ ] Reach out to Roswita, and have the EIC start passing on tips about any tax evasion or other naughtiness by the EIC's rivals.

Like, would Gretel knowingly betray us? No. But just as you don't set alcoholics to guard your wine cellar, even if they love and respect you completely, don't set people whose primary motivation is wealth with a flexible attitude towards ethics atop an intel apparatus that could generate wealth but is supposed to be doing other things.
She's hardly a common thief. She's only robbed the enemies of men and she's also a devout Morrite who to a degree aligns herself with that priesthood.

I'm not saying we should groom her, but I feel like you are selling her short.
She only robbed the enemies of mankind while she's been here, with us. She, uh, probably has a tragic backstory.
Gretel Maurer, Journeywoman of the Amethyst Order
Armament: Summoned scythe
Speciality: ???
Mission: Wealth
Martial: 16 - Her talents in combat have begun to blossom.
Intrigue: 21 - She's small, thin, and quiet. It's not easy to look past those explanations to the genuine skill underneath.
Learning: 17 - She's whip-smart and very well read in the Lores of Shyish and Morr.
Magic: 3 - She has superb control, but not a lot of power.

Grim Harvester: Gretel has twin talents for deft work with the summoned scythe of Shyish and the manipulation of stolen life-energies.
Morrite: Like many Amethyst Wizards, Gretel worships the God of Death and Dreams.
Royal Boon (Minor): For their part in the Karak Eight Peaks campaign, they have earned a boon they have yet to call in.
Thief: Whatever the circumstances of her upbringing, they left her with a gift for stealth, an affinity with locks, and a hunger for the finer things in life.
Unnerving Appearance: Gretel's limbs appear too long for her body.
And I don't think being a devout Morrite has relevance to the situation. Even if she gives half the money she makes to the Temple of Morr, we still don't want her to be making money off of the EIC intel network.
 
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[X] Plan: Save the History! also AV and Job I guess...
[X] Plan Dictionaries now, Runelord checks out AV stuff and jazz
[X] Plan Redshirt v2
[X] Plan Dictionaries now, powerstones for AV stuff and jazz
 
I am approval voting cuz I wanna make sure a spoken queekish variant wins over anything else, but I really do prefer the better max one.

[X] Plan: Spoken Queekish v4
[X] Plan: Spoken Queekish with better gambits
[X] Plan: Spoken Queekish v4 with convincing
[X] Plan: Spoken Queekish v4 with Better Max
 
So if we want to form of our orchestra we need powerful well trained wizards and some way to bribe them to trust her. So yes Mathilde being wealthy would help her figure out how to do high magic.
 
Like, would Gretel knowingly betray us? No. But just as you don't set alcoholics to guard your wine cellar, even if they love and respect you completely, don't set people whose primary motivation is wealth with a flexible attitude towards ethics atop an intel apparatus that could generate wealth but is supposed to be doing other things.
I found it hilarious when the Thief was recruited as the leader of the Watch :p
 
I'm not arguing against, or for, a perpetual. Or an outsider.
But a Grey perpetual might be my preference, yes.

True, but the objection to Gretel is indeed illuminating: the same concerns we have on Gretel will show up for both Perpetual and an Outsider, and there'd probably be a point where it becomes a very good idea for Mathilde to get a second IC, so it probably can't be held off forever. But it actually is abit worse, since we won't know immediately what motivates the Outsider, and while the Perpetual won't be allowed out of the College without the Grey College having a certain level of confidence in his/her apprentice, their working relationship is probably a undetermined quality, unlike Gretel.

Can a2nd IC be trusted with the day to day management of an Info network that is also the keys to a significant part of a Financial Empire?

For an outsider, I'd say roll the dice.

For a Grey Perpetual.... pray for no crit fails on Character generation, but the margin of safety is almost certainly higher.

Given the same concerns of what Gretel could hypothetically do applies to any other handler-manager Mathilde employs, the 1 College Favor per turn may be actually a very reasonable price just to ensure that you have someone with an actual vow of poverty with at least enough integrity to be allowed out of the College by some of the most paranoid people in the Empire , running the show.

Even if said Perpetual is a Mathilde tier flounderer starting out, the fears about Gretel's "reliability" is less likely to apply to said Perpetual.

"Putting a known acquisitive thief in charge of a corporate-based espionage team" is basically an invitation for her to commit corporate espionage, or at the very least to use her intel to enrich herself

The Amethyst College does not object to this by the way, and Gretel probably would only land us in hot water if she broke the Articles of Magic to enrich herself unlawfully (since insider trading as far as I know is not outlawed in the Empire). Gretel enriching herself probably isn't Mathilde's concern so long as it doesn't raise the objection of the Amethyst College, or of Mathilde's fellow founders.

We did recruit a thief as leader of our watch as Lightlan said. I have no doubt he enriched himself behind our backs using his position, and I don't think Mathilde objected.

When it comes to Handlers, and the ones who handle the handlers, there are four options:
1. A randomly generated outsider, or worse, many outsiders
2. Julia
3. Gretel Mauer
4. A Grey Perpetual


It seems to me that alot of the objections being levied at Gretel strongly behoves us to not recruit the first three, and instead play it safer and just recruit a Grey Prepetual who probably can't misuse the keys to the Kingdom without the wrath of the Bursars down on him/her, if we don't get him/her first.

One is a crapshoot up to the dice roll. Two will enrich her own family. Three is a known Thief.

If Sentiment drives us, three is an obvious choice. If trust is an OOC issue (it cannot be an IC issue, because remember, Mathilde trust very few people) , it seems to me that literally our safest option is to get a Grey Perpetual.
 
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So if we want to form of our orchestra we need powerful well trained wizards and some way to bribe them to trust her. So yes Mathilde being wealthy would help her figure out how to do high magic.
And trust each other. We will basically have to found an order with a least one member from each school.
 
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And trust each other. We will basically have to found an order with a least on member from each school.
...an august order? :V

Gretel enriching herself probably isn't Mathilde's concern so long as it doesn't raise the objection of the Amethyst College, or of Mathilde's fellow founders.
The EIC misbehaving is our responsibility and concern, though. We put a fair amount of effort into heading that off out of those worries.
It seems to me that alot of the objections being levied at Gretel strongly behoves us to not recruit the first three, and instead play it safer and just recruit a Grey Prepetual who probably can't misuse the keys to the Kingdom without the wrath of the Bursars down on him/her, if we don't get him/her first.
I mean, yes, probably so.
 
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Maybe this has been discussed previously and I'm about to get pleb filtered, but what exactly is the benefit involved in being able to create a small level of high magic when the requirments of doing so are so high? I get that the most powerful magics in setting all involve high magic, and that being able to refine it down is possible on the cards, but it just seems to present a risk of near constantly exploding all the damn time we want to use it in a way that's possibly worse than miscasting even battle magic, and requires a really intricate series of prerequisities before that as well.
 
The Amethyst College does not object to this by the way, and Gretel probably would only land us in hot water if she broke the Articles of Magic to enrich herself unlawfully (since insider trading as far as I know is not outlawed in the Empire). Gretel enriching herself probably isn't Mathilde's concern so long as it doesn't raise the objection of the Amethyst College, or of Mathilde's fellow founders.
Oh, sure. But I object to it, since one of the first things we did when we started flexing our muscles in the EIC was to instill values in the EIC that subordinates profit to higher goals. That's one of the reasons I actually think recruiting handlers internally is a totally fine idea, though I have no strong objections to the Perpetual:
Bone-Deep Truths:
Patriots: The EIC knows that the Empire's long-term financial well-being is utterly vital for the EIC.

Core Corporate Policies:
Don't Skin The Sheep: The EIC will always choose indefinite small profits over single windfalls.
Grudge-Averse: The EIC will never deliberately break a deal made with Dwarves, and will take any Dwarven complaints very seriously.
Riparian: The Dwarves are about to completely redraw the map. Be prepared.

Secondary Corporate Beliefs:
Tall, not Wide: The EIC prefers to dominate small areas than have small presences over large areas.
Insider Trading: The EIC likes to make profit from being the first to know important information.
Friends In High Places: The EIC likes to cultivate relationships with Elector Counts and other local rulers.
Eyes on Barak Varr: Though careful to cooperate rather than compete with Barak Varr, the eyes of the EIC have turned south.
We put a lot of work into making the EIC Grudge-Averse Patriots and to establishing an internal watchdog division to make sure any misconduct gets ferreted out immediately. Someone brought in from the outside is less likely to have those values, and in the case of Gretel, we know that Patriot isn't her Bone-Deep Truth. I'd rather pick someone less effective at spycraft but more in line with the values we ourselves instilled.
Maybe this has been discussed previously and I'm about to get pleb filtered, but what exactly is the benefit involved in being able to create a small level of high magic when the requirments of doing so are so high? I get that the most powerful magics in setting all involve high magic, and that being able to refine it down is possible on the cards, but it just seems to present a risk of near constantly exploding all the damn time we want to use it in a way that's possibly worse than miscasting even battle magic, and requires a really intricate series of prerequisities before that as well.
"Everyone thinks it's impossible, so if we find a way to do it, we'll have completely revolutionized human magic use." I don't think this is super useful compared to our other moonshots, but people are very taken with the idea.
 
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