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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Despite the terror of a Dawi schism, it would still be very satisfying to see Belegar beating Thorgrim black and blue with something blunt.
"Why did we fall, Thorgrim?! Why did we fall?! It's because the ancestors were so bloody prideful and secure in their position that they never wrote anything down, and never shared their secrets!"
 
veekie said:
The issue is twofold:
-Mathilde doesn't trust anyone she lacks leverage over.
-The thread doesn't trust a mystery box.

Johann managed to fit in the space initially of having knowable but unknown mystery. This made people keep picking at the issue like a scab, they can't NOT poke it, and people theorycrafted and got increasingly hostile.

He didn't fit the expected stereotype.



The parallels:
-Roswita fired Mathilde. This made Mathilde unhappy with Roswita, but nothing she'd act on.
--Thorgrim dismissed Belegar's achievements. This made Belegar unhappy with Thorgrim, but nothing he'd act on.

-When Mathilde receives news about Roswita's deeds, she(and the thread) interprets it unfavorably. When she crash modernized the army and half the army went AWOL, we thought she did wrong when in literally any other circumstances, we'd be the one suggesting that sort of thing. When she sold limited taxation rights for sorely needed funds, we declared she was dooming the county with incompetence despite knowing full well how poorly off the treasury was when we left, and thus how badly she'd need Right Now funds.
--When Belegar receives news about Thorgrim's decisions, he interprets the offense more personally and the motives more selfishly.

It wasn't ignorance, they came pre-judged because of a negative relationship
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And we always judge people based on their past historical actions. This is a valid and true method.

Roswita make bad judgement based on prejudice of wizzard, we think of her making bad judgement when half her troops deserted.

Belegar was not dissapointed by Thorgrim, he felt downright betrayed. So, knowing what he knew and what the elf knew and what Mathilda, the reliable General that have proven herself time and again, said to him?

It would be strange if he did not dismiss Thorgrim as a lying bastard.
 
Asheram said:
Despite the terror of a Dawi schism, it would still be very satisfying to see Belegar beating Thorgrim black and blue with something blunt.
"Why did we fall, Thorgrim?! Why did we fall?! It's because the ancestors were so bloody prideful and secure in their position that they never wrote anything down, and never shared their secrets!"
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Pretty sure Belegar would be the one getting beaten to death in that scenario. Thorgrim, High King for centuries and empowered by the throne? Belebro's cool and all that, but if Thorgrim doesn't have 25+ martial and an arseload of traits I'm calling BS.

More importantly, dissing the ancestors like that is a nice way to lose literally all his political capital. Piety 8 sucks real hard
 
Chronic said:
Just noticed and researched that. I did not know that the Dwarves of the Middle Mountains supposedly declared their independence from the Karaz Ankor, only to then run away from their holds, burying the entrances and declaring them cursed. Wonder what happened there.

Maybe they dug too deep.
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An aspiring Dwarf comedian inadvertently wrote the funniest joke in the world. Attempts were made to contain it or remove it from the Hold, but even the surliest and most stoic of longbeards would giggle themselves to death without fail. But the Dwarves lacked the linguistic foundation necessary to translate it into Queekish, and were too traditional to consider weaponizing it anyway, so the only solution they could think of was to abandon their mountains and seal the joke away.
 
B_omega said:
Roswita make bad judgement based on prejudice of wizzard, we think of her making bad judgement when half her troops deserted.
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I maintain that Roswita's judgement when it came to firing Mathilde. While it is easy to forget, wizards have a real chance of accidentally exploding whenever they do anything magical, and Mathilde in particular was infamous for casting Shadowsteed whenever she needed to go anywhere. From Roswita's point of view, hiring Mathilde meant meant being a critfail away from suddenly losing her spymaster every action, on top of the regular mortality rates for humans in Stirland.

Now, there's no good excuse for her not even reading the report we wrote...
 
ichypa said:
An aspiring Dwarf comedian inadvertently wrote the funniest joke in the world. Attempts were made to contain it or remove it from the Hold, but even the surliest and most stoic of longbeards would giggle themselves to death without fail. But the Dwarves lacked the linguistic foundation necessary to translate it into Queekish, and were too traditional to consider weaponizing it anyway, so the only solution they could think of was to abandon their mountains and seal the joke away.
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Personally i was thinking that one of them made the huge mistake of adopting a pair of cats and Ranald decided it would be funny to cause a CATSPLOSION class event that eventually overran the Dwarves.

But your idea has a certain charm.
 
Chronic said:
Personally i was thinking that one of them made the huge mistake of adopting a pair of cats and Ranald decided it would be funny to cause a CATSPLOSION class event that eventually overran the Dwarves.

But your idea has a certain charm.
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Hm. Ranald has the K8P in a strangehold that way.
 
[X] Battle: General of Fog
[X] Battle: Trucemaker
[X] Karak: Collegiate
[X] Karak: Polyglot
[X] Personal: Poker Face
[X] Personal: Xeno-Affinity
 
[X] Karak: Windherder
[X] Battle: Surreptitious Intervention
[X] Personal: Xeno-Affinity
 
Fehu said:
Too bad we have to pick between xenophile and ancestor worship. Oh well.
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That's really the big loss here in my opinion too. Hopefully we might be able to get the trait later on/get it by default if we ever commit to learning more of Gazul's lore.

I don't think many of the voters are actively against worshipping them, it's just opportunity costs.
 
Karugus said:
That's really the big loss here in my opinion too. Hopefully we might be able to get the trait later on/get it by default if we ever commit to learning more of Gazul's lore.

I don't think many of the voters are actively against worshipping them, it's just opportunity costs.
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I personally think that it's a bit of inappropriate cultural appropriation, so I am absolutely fine with ancestor worship not winning.
 
Nah, cultural appropriation would be if we were wearing symbols of Gazul to look cool without bothering to learn their significance or how they ought to be used.

Forming a genuine reverence for a not-your-culture's religion is not even the least bit that.

I'm also fine with ancestor worship not winning solely because Ranald Is The Man, but let's not make spurious accusations here.
 
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It's also worth thinking about how Ranald would react to no longer having a monopoly on Mathilde's faith.

... Darn, now I am tempted to vote for it. If it wasn't for Gazul's stance on necromancy I probably would.
 
Omegahugger said:
It's also worth thinking about how Ranald would react to no longer having a monopoly on Mathilde's faith.

... Darn, now I am tempted to vote for it. If it wasn't for Gazul's stance on necromancy I probably would.
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He probably wouldn't mind. Remember we've got a friend-friend relationship with him, not really worshiper-god. It's a poor friend who gets pissed because you found another friend.
 
Ericwinter said:
He probably wouldn't mind. Remember we've got a friend-friend relationship with him, not really worshiper-god. It's a poor friend who gets pissed because you found another friend.
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I see it as having a carpenter friend, and then buying your furniture -from a different carpenter, like, they feel sad that you think their stuff is so shoddy that you go somewhere else.
 
Guancyto said:
Nah, cultural appropriation would be if we were wearing symbols of Gazul to look cool without bothering to learn their significance or how they ought to be used.

Forming a genuine reverence for a not-your-culture's religion is not even the least bit that.

I'm also fine with ancestor worship not winning solely because Ranald Is The Man, but let's not make spurious accusations here.
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It's worth remembering that the Undumgi asked for, and received, approval to build temples to dwarf gods in their own space.
BoneyM said:
Everyone, it seems, wants to stake a claim on a set of quarters adjoining the central staircase, and with no other landmarks in the entire mountain you can see why. You refresh your own scouting memories with some poking around, and in a temporary office you work on a MAP of the main branches of the Karag. You map out a market for visiting merchants, a dining hall for group meals, and an armoury for the tools of the Undumgi's trade, and put word out for anyone who wishes to stick around without combat in their future, and there's a handful - young mercenaries think they'll be happy to fight their entire lives, but old ones start to dream of a tavern or a grocer or some other peaceful retirement, and you carefully distribute some of the larger rooms to them. Some are of a religious bent, and you approve shrines to Shallya, Ulric, Myrmidia, Ursun, and the Lady. You also receive a few unexpected requests, and after a word to an equally bemused King Belegar, you plot out the future locations of shrines to Grimnir and Valaya.
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So while it might be strange for Umgi to worship Dawi gods, it's not offensive, and Mathilde wouldn't even be the first one to do it.
 
wrecksalot said:
I see it as having a carpenter friend, and then buying your furniture -from a different carpenter, like, they feel sad that you think their stuff is so shoddy that you go somewhere else.
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That's sort of fair, it at the same time, it would actually be like having a carpenter friend, and then a doctor friend or something. Since their domains don't really cross much, Mathilde prays to different gods for different things. At least, that's how it would probably be if she had other gods. It's pretty much why pantheons are a thing.
 
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