Agreed. Shopping is one of those things that can just be recorded and done in the background. We're well past the days of being bright-eyed poor people browsing through the markets wondering what we can get away with. We know what we want, we know how much we want to spend, we know how much is available in the first place, etc.
Frankly, no market could provide the materials that Viserys buys these days.

At best, he is taking the time to gather a few great trading magnates, tosses them a list and tells them that he will buy from the lowest bidder.

The more realistic version is that Lya requests funds from the Crown Administration, Alinor makes a spending plan, Viserys signs it and the whole thing gets handed off to ACSEC to be bought on the planar markets.

Edit: And by Lya, Alinor and Viserys, I mean people working for them.
 
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Why do we need to do it ourselves again? We have a relationship now, and it's not like they need to talk to the Abbot(?) to pick stuff up. Running off to the marketplace is a waste of time, even if it's cool.
For purely shopping, we don't need to do it in person. I was just thinking about meeting with the Grandmaster of the Githzerai monastery again. If that isn't a concern, I don't see why we need to be personally involved.
 
Sure, let's have no more Minor Actions, and turn the way quest is 180 degrees.
Bah.
I'm feeling highly salty, and want to argue, but that'd be the 3rd time we are facing this, and this time, I'm thoroughly tired of trying to fight a pointless battle.

I disagree, but sure, let's do things another way.
No more IC MAs.

We are finishing what we have this month, and then we are done.

Notice how beyond Plane of Air most of the shit on-screen is actually purely social?

I'm off to the cave. Y'all may be right, or y'all may be wrong, but I'm not in clear enough mind to think about all this.
At the end of the day extensive coverage of everything gives marginal benefits at the price of slowing us down a lot. We've got to take a hard look at how slow we are willing to go here. I'm pretty sure a graph of time IC vs time OOC would not look pretty as we progress.
Frankly, no market could provide the materials that Viserys buys these days.

At best, he is taking the time to gather a few great trading magnates, tosses them a list and tells them that he will buy from the lowest bidder.

The more realistic version is that Lya requests funds from the Crown Administration, Alinor makes a spending plan, Viserys signs it and the whole thing gets handed off to ACSEC to be bought on the planar markets.
Yeah, there's probably a big market just for being suppliers for Viserys. I bet that one Shaitan House we're friendly with earned quite a profit off of us, for example.
 
At the end of the day extensive coverage of everything gives marginal benefits at the price of slowing us down a lot. We've got to take a hard look at how slow we are willing to go here. I'm pretty sure a graph of time IC vs time OOC would not look pretty as we progress.

Yeah, there's probably a big market just for being suppliers for Viserys. I bet that one Shaitan House we're friendly with earned quite a profit off of us, for example.
I was serious when I said we are nearing "no mijor actions left" naturally.
So I'm not as salty as I'd be otherwise.

@Azel, can we compromise on at least leaving social stuff on MAs?
 
There's a Diplomacy action in the turn-plan system. It's meant to cover precisely that.
Not the "social stuff" I meant.
Example from mA-lsit above: Us talking to Zherys and Meraxxes, ensuring she doesn't go live for a while b/c we don't want the 15th to go full-strength yet.
Other examples: Us visiting the rat-people under King's Landing and diplomancing their leaders to go to SD instead. Us talking to Galeneia and bartering for Water-aligned Outsider-forging lore if she did manage to get it.
Etc.

These are all "less than a day"-actions, they are purely social, they are justifiably reasonable for Viserys to do in-person.
Meraxxes and Galeneia are talking to Gods, essentially. Our minions can't handle that for us (yet).
Rat-people are a direct consequence of bombing the Alchemists, are on a timer to be discovered (and possibly exterminated)... and are a really shiny thing for several posters OOC, from what I have gathered. Yes-yes.

This week-long slog through PoW... well, it is disjointed because PoW itself is disjointed. I'd argue that "talk to Marid ruler" is also not something we can delegate yet.
We could have handled looking for mercenaries better, alright, but at least we got some neat worldbuilding out of it.
PoW at the moment is about 14 3 times the detail of PoF, PoE and especially PoA.
 
Rat-people are a direct consequence of bombing the Alchemists, are on a timer to be discovered (and possibly exterminated)... and are a really shiny thing for several posters OOC, from what I have gathered. Yes-yes.
Why are they on any sort of timer again? The ones who have the most comprehensive infiltration of King's Landing are us, and we've been rooting out Devils and Deep Ones in that city as they show up. The Ratfolk additionally are naturally reclusive and not liable to let themselves get caught.
 
Why are they on any sort of timer again? The ones who have the most comprehensive infiltration of King's Landing are us, and we've been rooting out Devils and Deep Ones in that city as they show up. The Ratfolk additionally are naturally reclusive and not liable to let themselves get caught.
Weren't we told IC that "sooner or later they'll get noticed"?
If they aren't on any timer... sure, they can wait.
I'd like to grab them regardless, and we will because we already voted on that... if I get any say about things, anyway... but I digress, they indeed can wait for now.
 
It's not super important to the overall narrative whether we get the Ratfolk to relocate to SD, but I would like to sometime relatively soon.

I admit it's a vanity project, since I like the Ratfolk and think it would be near to add them to the super diverse populace of our capital city.
 
Weren't we told IC that "sooner or later they'll get noticed"?
If they aren't on any timer... sure, they can wait.
I'd like to grab them regardless, and we will because we already voted on that... if I get any say about things, anyway... but I digress, they indeed can wait for now.
It can be handled as simply as handing an Inquisition operative a scroll for Teleportation Circle connecting King's Landing and Sorcerer's Deep which would subsequently be dispelled.
 
I mean, yeah, there's turnover in the smaller posters. Almost nobody was there at quest start. Many comment less and begin just liking updates, etc. However the crushing majority of the main posters are still there. Looking at "who replied", almost everyone on page 1 is still there, page 2 and 3 are mostly still there.
This is far from a box with only 4 people in it.

However I remain curious : how do you suggest to change this state of affairs?

I think the best option for more reader engagement would be to ban write-ins, and have us pick from clear, preset options. That always massively increases turnout. I personally dislike this idea, but hey, it works!
To increase discussion... No idea.
First and foremost, I would like to say that I'm glad you asked me a question about a topic I've spend years agonizing over. :V

The short answer is: Increase player engagement.
The long answer is the same as the short answer, with a lot of awkward hemming and hawing, as that is most definitely easier said then done. This is where the agonizing comes in.

At it's core, what I have found the most important thing in quests is to ensure a vote is 3 things:
1) Comprehensible
2) Conscience
3) Relevant

The first one is the most obvious and yet the one you can fail the easiest at. People will not vote or engage when they feel that they don't understand what they are voting for. This can either be prior lack of knowledge of the subject (say, how D&D combat works) or the consequences (pick a door without knowing what's behind). This is a problem for quite a few votes in ASWAH, as the impact of spells is so pervasive. Furthermore, there are complex systems to keep in mind that scare away many people. I'm not really seeing a lot of chance for improvement here.

What is also part of the first point though is the impact and result of a vote. This at least should be as clear possible and the feedback to a vote should come sooner rather then later. Look at most civ quests. Usually, if they use large numbers of discrete options like in most CK2 style quests, the turn is resolved by covering all rolls for all actions and only then come the narrative parts that flesh out the 2-3 more important actions. This keeps the vote for an action close to the feedback for it, with only the more complex feedback of more complex issues being dragged out. There's also usually not all that much time between turn votes, keeping a tight loop that is easy to observe and provides regular feedback. Here ASWAH could greatly improve, but that will be hard.

The second one is easier, since brevity is easy to increase. Forbidding write-ins entirely is certainly an option, but just forcing them down to bullet-points or general intent can do wonders. The issue is that people will see a wall-of-text vote and shy away from engaging. The simple fact that there is a huge amount of stuff written implies that there should be a huge a mount of stuff written. You can easily observe this in most office jobs, where specific kinds of documents are expected to be a specific size. People will not trust a document that falls outside this implied size spectrum, such as a 50 page invoice or a manual for a complex machine that has only two pages. Likewise, they will feel their short write-in clearly must be wrong next to a 1000 word speech.

The other side of this issue is important too though, as votes should have clearly defined options, clearly defined scope and at least some sense of purpose. A pure Write-In prompt is dreadfully open, again raising the expected complexity of a vote. People look at you weird when the vote is "What Next? [] Write-In" and you answer "[] Go Home". This is something that has already gotten better in the last months. Ultimately, you want a few short and clear options, which attach short and clear votes and the occasional short and clear write-in. The style here in ASWAH is uniquely open in that regard and sadly something that creeped into my own QMing and provided me with no small number of problems.

Lastly though comes the big issue. Relevance. A vote should not come up because the end of the chapter did. A vote should not be called when there are no meaningfully different options to pick from. A vote should not come up when it will not impact the story in a meaningful way. Here DP is a great sinner, feeling the need to always have a vote over night and to always end a chapter with a vote, even if there is nothing worth voting on.

There have been a few things lately that I feel were completely irrelevant votes:
1. The PoW Merc gathering itself, as I feel that the Illithid War would never be covered or modeled in enough detail for these numbers to mean anything at all, making them irrelevant.
2. Repeated Introduction votes. The initial sales pitch never changed, baring a few wordings and a bit better addressing at the current target. Thus, all of these votes after the first were irrelevant.
3. Repeated speechifying about "Squids Bad mkay?".

I think you see what I mean. Votes that can be covered by copy & paste of a recent vote or by just writing "[] Proceed" are bad and with enough of them in small enough a time-frame, you will train the players that no vote matters. This point also covers the issue that many feel ASWAH is too easy. If failure is not an option (which I have repeatedly heard by many different people), then voting becomes pointless.


So. With all of this being said. What's your suggestion?
 
Gonna need more votes, y'all. Let's finish up in the Plane of Water tomorrow and get down to the business of crushing the Golden Company.
 
I was genuinely not expecting Sansa to want to level as a spellcaster. Sansa the social+knowledge Expert, yes. Sansa the Noble or Generic Expert (with noncombat feats), perhaps. But Sansa the spellcaster? How did that even happen?

Honestly, this was just baffling to me.
As a girl, reading is one of the very few pasttimes she has.

When all you have are books on magic, no friends your age (or gender) and no real chores, you can become a mage out of boredom if nothing else.
 
I feel that to introduce many new people into this quest you'd need a summary of some sort, and it'd probably become a really long one simply due to how much there is to cover. A lot of what we're doing, how we're doing it and who are all these people we're doing it with just won't make sense to someone new and there's a lot to read through to get to the parts where it is explained.

Then, completely beyond that, you have the issue of votes, which is also huge since complex votes have long been a staple here and they depress voter turnout like nothing else. Dealing with this and pushing less relevant and/or repetitive things into the background should be doable and I'd expect it to greatly increase engagement.
 
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I'd really hate for this quest to become "CK-like".
It just isn't what I'm here for, wherever the story goes, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that.

I'm okay with hacking away at MAs. I really am.
I'm okay with us trying to background more of the RAs and tasks we send minions on, too.

Hacking away at the stuff we see from Viserys' perspective, and/or shifting the focus to strategic management is something I personally wouldn't like.

Forbidding and/or limiting write-ins is as much of a problem as going with the way things are now, imo.
There are times when you can't express stuff in few concise lines, whether that's speeches, preparations (like summoning greater Fiends), or a dedicated vote for arguing with someone (cases of such are innumerable).
I've seen a few quests limiting write-ins to a number of words and then having in-quest maluses added for too many words.
I wouldn't ever be able to post anything in such an environment. Even without the abovementioned "maluses" for things.
Just the pressure of "have to get your idea in the set number of words, and hope beyond hope that you managed to include all relevant details, so that nothing will bite you in the ass later".

Combat is combat, there are a few people who enjoy planning it, and lots of people who enjoy seeing it play out but can't plan.
That's just par for the course for a dnd-quest. Good thing combat isn't a focus of this quest either.
 
As a girl, reading is one of the very few pasttimes she has.

When all you have are books on magic, no friends your age (or gender) and no real chores, you can become a mage out of boredom if nothing else.
That is a good insight. Even beyond the various reasons she has to be interested, the fact she's now in a place she doesn't know with no one in her age group to interact with will lead to her going through those books with a far greater focus than she would have managed at home.
 
OK so having read this it's clear there is a strong current towards tightening up the quest and I will certainly do my best to help with that, but I feel like I have to caution you guys about something, there is a lot happening in the world. It's a product of how long this quest has been going on. I think we should keep at least the background MAs as @egoo pointed out otherwise I'm going to have to justify IC why someone with access to a lot of competent minions does not send people to look at things that only need a few hours of talking to get and transmit the necessary information.

Also the current minor actions have been voted on. I do not feel comfortable overruling any of that without another vote. That is not fair quest design.
 
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