Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

I mean, we don't need to grab Yrsillar's words from Discord. Let's just look at the text:

yrsillar said:

"It's like…" Sixiang paused, searching for her words. "Like before I could think this is fear-of-death, and this is pain-of-loss, but it was like describing what the color something was, there wasn't really any understanding to it."

Ling Qi was silent, her qi thrumming in her meridians. It really struck her then, the inhumanity of her companion. As a human, she could reconcile the things Sixiang had spoken of, but… she couldn't not really. Sixiang was a muse, a creature of thought and feeling, a conflict like this could discomfit or depress her, but to Sixiang, it was really more like a wasting illness.

"But you've spent enough time to have that context now. They aren't just colors on the pallet anymore," Ling Qi said.

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Sixiang now understands what fear-of-death is, and what fear-of-loss is. And now they are afraid of death, and they are afraid of loss, and experiencing those things in others is deeply disturbing to them.

My read is that MoSS tackles this by encouraging Sixiang to limit their empathy to a choice few, the way LQ only really cares about a few people close to her, and that PMR tackles this by encouraging Sixiang to regain the artistic detachment from death and loss they had as a muse.

Death isn't that scary. As a muse, yeah, of course you don't want to die but sometimes, you put up your life on the line anyway because some things are more important than your fear of death. Like family. Or friends.

Your actions, your songs/art, your legacy will live on past your death... And heck, even if we hit white... We are going to die at some point, if only when we become a great spirit. But hopefully, what we leave behind will last beyond us.

[X] Playful Muse Rapport (Try to help Sixiang reclaim their nature as a muse. Increases Sixiang's Moon affinity. Higher chance of positive result)

Edit: also not interested in a Sixiang like Ling Qi. Don't care to just make them as narrow focused as us! I feel like that's a disservice to them as a muse! What kind of muse can't empathize with other people, including enemies! That's a valuable perspective that I'd and Sixiang would miss.

Vanguard_D said:

So Wind option is about empathy. Not Moon.

Fun that I predicted the "Moon removes empathy" fear mongering early.

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How I wish such things would be posted in the thread.

[X] Playful Muse Rapport (Try to help Sixiang reclaim their nature as a muse. Increases Sixiang's Moon affinity. Higher chance of positive result)

picklepikkl said:

I mean, we don't need to grab Yrsillar's words from Discord. Let's just look at the text:

Sixiang now understands what fear-of-death is, and what fear-of-loss is. And now they are afraid of death, and they are afraid of loss, and experiencing those things in others is deeply disturbing to them.

My read is that MoSS tackles this by encouraging Sixiang to limit their empathy to a choice few, the way LQ only really cares about a few people close to her, and that PMR tackles this by encouraging Sixiang to regain the artistic detachment from death and loss they had as a muse.

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Makes sense i suppose. Id still prefer to deal with the empathy problem first imo. Lower chances not withstansing

Sixiang's issues lie on two axis, fear of death and empathy for others. These are causing stress for them because, very recently, they've been surrounded by people who are all afraid of death but are trying to bring death to others. Both options deal with one aspect of this balance, the empathy Sixiang feels for other people, their fears, their hopes, their dreams, and Sixiang's own fears and issues and the problems that they need to overcome.

I don't want to cut off Sixiang's empathy for others and the struggles they face. I want the muse to reflect and reconcile that empathy with the fact that they are also afraid of dying; that they too have hopes and dreams and ambitions. I want Sixiang to say 'even though I am scared, even though this will hurt, I will push on through because of what I value.' Which is why I'm voting for Playful Muse Rapport.

[X] Melodies of the Spirit Seekers (Lean in to the problem of empathy and how to solve it. Improves Sixiang's Wind affinity. Lower Chance of Positive result)

I'm really quite torn so for the moment I'll vote for the option w/ fewer votes

DangerKitty said:

Makes sense i suppose. Id still prefer to deal with the empathy problem first imo. Lower chances not withstansing

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??? Empathy isn't a problem that has to be fixed. (I personally would also think that it shouldn't be fixed but that's a judgment call) I don't think Sixiang empathizing with a lot of people is a bad thing!

(But I'm amused that moss solution is 'but sixiang, have u considered just not having empathy for many people'

With pmr, I'm looking forward to future ling qi being like these people are bad and enemies! And sixianng like but I can understand their grievance at bring pushed out of their ancestral homelands by the empire. And ling qi like but they enemy??? And Sixiang like you can make them not your enemy!)

yrsillar said:

On the murners shoulders were countless biers, smelling of incense and oils that only just masked the scent of death.

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mourners



Well.

[X] Playful Muse Rapport (Try to help Sixiang reclaim their nature as a muse. Increases Sixiang's Moon affinity. Higher chance of positive result)

I ... am unsure. I may abstain on this one. Wish yrs would put important WoGs on the thread tho. Discord... I feel kind of hurts quests.

To start this off: both ways seem to be valid methods of inducing change, its just that one of them has a higher chance of a 'positive' result than the other (where positive is assumed to be : Sixiang stays).

The questions then become, what changes are these actually creating and what major goal do we actually want to accomplish? The major goal doesn't have to be 'Sixiang stays' if we value something else more(though its arguable that any such sentiment is moot since the other option is (presumably) 'Sixiang goes back to the dream and is obliterated/reformed'). Details matter there but lets start at the start.

So Elemental Analysis. Sixiang's nature as pure spirit(no-corporeal form) makes them much more vulnerable to elemental balance changes as they pertain to perspective switches. Their nature as a pure spirit also means that they're interacting with arts on a more conceptual level so this is less mind control and more a conversation, as Yrs is skillfully depicting.

Melodies of the Spirit Seekers increases Wind affinity. Wind represents freedom(specifically a lack of ties), wanderlust,and curiosity. The negative part of this is obvious: a lack of ties could just as easily make Sixiang leave us as free them from the pain of broad spectrum empathy, even more so since Ling Qi is close at hand and as such the 'issue' the change more likely to be addressed first.
On the positive side this would let Sixiang continue to operate...more or less how they were just more detached from the actual problems? (Bonus: potentially give her more of a voice and presence through increasing wind strength )

Playful Muse Rapport increases Moon affinity. Moon has a lot attached to it conceptually but the relevant parts are change and insight I think. A moon affinity increase should bolster Sixiang's ability to change to match the situation. This could end up meaning a full phase change or just a slight enough change to accept the current state of things.
This option is the one more likely to leave us with a 'different' Sixiang I think and all that comes with that. Less chance of the expected bad option (Sixiang Leaves) and opens up some other minor bad options (e.g. Sixiang now craves pickles and exclusively listens to electro-trap-synth ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). (Bonus: Moon+Moon = More Moon = Stronger Spirit)


Personally I don't really know which I prefer. Not really sure how ethical it is to be arguing for stay in the first place since the Moon Spirit Cycle is a known situation. Staying does allow for more growth, at least. Six isn't human though so the value system is a bit different.

[X] Playful Muse Rapport (Try to help Sixiang reclaim their nature as a muse. Increases Sixiang's Moon affinity. Higher chance of positive result)

[X] Playful Muse Rapport (Try to help Sixiang reclaim their nature as a muse. Increases Sixiang's Moon affinity. Higher chance of positive result)

storryeater said:

I ... am unsure. I may abstain on this one. Wish yrs would put important WoGs on the thread tho. Discord... I feel kind of hurts quests.

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People asked him on the Discord, so he answered there; tbh, I don't even really feel it's an important WoG, since it just boils down to "the option that says it's about Six's empathy is the one that's about Six's empathy, the other option is about a different thing," which basically just confirms "the options are about the things in the options themselves and you shouldn't make too large a leap by what isn't in the option." It's not like he gave us new information.

[X] Playful Muse Rapport (Try to help Sixiang reclaim their nature as a muse. Increases Sixiang's Moon affinity. Higher chance of positive result)

*smells the air*

Ah, good to get the taste of salt first thing in the morning

I really dont think this is necessarily a bad thing, people. Also, I'd rather not raise our die threshold

[X] Playful Muse Rapport (Try to help Sixiang reclaim their nature as a muse. Increases Sixiang's Moon affinity. Higher chance of positive result)

Falconis said:

Personally I don't really know which I prefer. Not really sure how ethical it is to be arguing for stay in the first place since the Moon Spirit Cycle is a known situation. Staying does allow for more growth, at least. Six isn't human though so the value system is a bit different.

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Again

Six now has a human sense and fear of death, going back to the dream is death to them from both of our perspectives now ergo staying is absolutely more ethical if we care about Six not dying due to a bout of depression.

EDIT: A "soul blender" is not a normal reincarnation cycle.

[X] Playful Muse Rapport (Try to help Sixiang reclaim their nature as a muse. Increases Sixiang's Moon affinity. Higher chance of positive result)

Yeah, I don't really know what to do about this vote. Just going with the option that has the higher chance of positive result

1986ctcel said:

Again

Six now has a human sense and fear of death, going back to the dream is death to them from both of our perspectives now ergo staying is absolutely more ethical if we care about Six not dying due to a bout of depression.

EDIT: A "soul blender" is not a normal reincarnation cycle.

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I disagree. In this update Six draws attention to our differing perspectives and fundamental natures(human/moon-spirit) on the issue several times while trying to explain. Determining the ethics of this situation depends on a much fuller understanding of Six's current state than we actually possess.

The soul blender(to use your terms) was always a thing, it hasn't changed, the only thing that's changed is how much Six cares about it. If a non-depressed Six decides to hit the blender would you still call it unethical? Is the soul blender itself unethical and if so does this affect our opinions on the moon and continued cultivation?
(Tangentially related: Soul blender as a term carries a very visceral imagery.)

A deeper understanding of what is natural, correct, and needed for Moon Spirits (and dream muses in particular) is required to make the best decision here. Until then the best action is to get more information to make that decision, but the situation has forced our hand. Acting selfishly to get Sixiang to stay may end up being the correct choice and I hope it is since we're already on that path, but I'll be taking some more time to think and review the information we have about her kind before I do more than situation analysis.

[X] Melodies of the Spirit Seekers (Lean in to the problem of empathy and how to solve it. Improves Sixiang's Wind affinity. Lower Chance of Positive result)

if Sixiang loses their Wind affinity, how will they know what kind of bod a cultivator is hiding in their loose robes

[x] Melodies of the Spirit Seekers (Lean in to the problem of empathy and how to solve it. Improves Sixiang's Wind affinity. Lower Chance of Positive result)