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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Don't forget to vote, ya'll.
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Nov 28, 2019 at 10:16 PM, finished with 85 posts and 11 votes.
  • [X] Start with Stone Hedge and the Brackens, perhaps trying to fit in a private meeting with Lady Catelyn (not words you thought you'd be thinking, albeit it is a different context) before meeting her father. The fact of the matter is you have made some gains with making your view of the Faith seem favorable, and religion is a prickly point with Lord Bracken if by nothing other than the sheer dint of his House's relationship with House Blackwood, and you have multiple ties and methods to get a favorable meeting at first blush with Lord Blackwood, through the auspices of Uncle Brynden and through your obvious championing of his Gods, to simple if distant blood ties.
    -[X] Furthermore the Brackens form the base of the knot in this case even if it seems possible a Blackwood might either untangle it or set the whole thing alight. You feel reasonably confident you can get them to set aside open conflict when you present all the other various threats facing the Riverlands and the Seven Kingdoms at large, and you have a reputation as a fair dealer and honorer of oaths. There's not really a whole lot more you can do to make a better impression, but a whole lot to make a worse one.
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One could argue that even in a realm of millions, finding 360 candidates a year would be around the upper limit for either hypothetical programs would share the same pool of recruits.
 
silvanknight said:
@egoo Teana and Xor can't help in the current research actions?
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Mhm, I dared to assume we'd want them on Adventure-like tasks instead, which I yet to throw together.

The proposed plan for RAs is very preliminary after all - just marking actions I thought most important, and letting everyone else chime in.

In theory, they can
 
Crake said:
Yes, it all wraps back around to the fact that if we are busy dying, the Imperium has much bigger problems than losing access to some elite operatives. By several orders of magnitude.
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Really?
Unlikely as it is by now, Viserys could still die in most regular fights he gets in.
That doesn't stop his companions from winning the fight a few rounds later and Rezzing him in the same minute.

But still, I like the flaw and Dragon Vassal in general, totally in favor of it.
And I particularly like the idea of having to be a CLeric of Viserys to make it work.
I can already see a Cleric 3/Warlord 2/ Battle Templar X, that would be a great field-officer, healing, harming and motivating with every move, every gesture, every strike.
 
Crake said:
One could argue that even in a realm of millions, finding 360 candidates a year would be around the upper limit for either hypothetical programs would share the same pool of recruits.
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Perhaps that would be the case in a peaceful world but in a world like this one the rate would be way higher.
 
Praetorians > Dragon Vassals > Symbiotes fluff-wise for me.

Just look at this, and tell me it doesn't sound more awesome (let alone detailed) than the Vassals.
I double-dare ya.
Praetori Template (LA+2)
Called an abomination by some and a wonder by others, none can deny the sheer scope of what magic has wrought upon those called Praetori. Deep in the bowels of what once was the Flesh Forge of Lys, a monument to the cruelty and debauchery of the Freehold, now blessed by uncaring gods and filled with those who seek to surpass the works of the gods themselves, these men and women have undergone a process that changed their very beings. Infused with arcane energies, their flesh torn apart and replaced with something inhuman, few are those who would dare to walk this path and fewer even those deemed strong enough and mind and body to endure it. If it is a blessing or a curse that they received, many would argue about, but none can deny the might bestowed upon the Praetori.

Creating a Praetori
"Praetori" is an acquired template that can only be added to human creatures. To gain it, the creature must undergo a lengthy series of surgeries and arcane treatments in a specially outfitted facility and staffed with skilled fleshcrafters and mages. Not every human is compatible with these processes. If a given character can receive this template must be decided by the DM. It costs either 4,500 IM and 40 lb. of Adamantine, or 7,700 IM to apply this template to an existing character, though usually, it will take more then gold to convince the owner of the facility to grant this template to someone.

A Praetori can not receive any grafts or other templates, as this would upset the delicate balance of his body and kill him.

The Praetori gains the following effects:
Spoiler: Quick Rules

Hardened Skin (Ex)
The skin of Praetori is leathery and somewhat stiff when touched. Often, it also shows a slight tint of grey, especially around joints and the counters of the head. This is the result of the Praetori's skin hiding a mesh of Adamantine armor, made up of thousands of tiny splints set all around his skin. Some areas of his bones are likewise reinforced and strong magic was used to bond the metal with the flesh around it, toughening it further. A Praetori gains +7 Natural Armor, which stacks with all other sources of Natural Armor, a Damage Resistance of 2/-. Furthermore, the skin is supernaturally resilient to the elements, granting the Praetori an Energy Resistance of 5 against Fire, Cold and Acid. This becomes Energy Resistance 10 at 5 HD and 15 at 11 HD. Lastly, all unarmed attacks made by a Praetori deal lethal damage.

Arcane Resilience (Su)
While most enhancements made to the Praetori are physical in nature, they have also been granted a measure of arcane protections. These still carry the imprint of the techniques used in their creation and as a result, each Praetori gives off a aura of Law as if he were a Lawful Outsider, regardless of his actual alignment on the Law - Chaos axis. In return, the Praetori gains Spell Resistance equal to his HD + 7 and a Damage Reduction of 5/Chaos at 5 HD, which becomes 10/Chaos at 11 HD. This DR does not stack with the effect of Hardened Skin, but should this DR be pierced, Hardened Skin applies normally. This protection can also be leveraged offensively though and by channeling this power, a Praetori can use Smite Chaos once per day as a SLA with a Caster Level equal to his Hit Dice.

More the Human (Ex)
The magic bound to their flesh has enhanced the bodies of the Praetori in too numerous ways too count, making them stronger, faster and smarter then they were before. This has left some marks on them though. A Praetori is on average a foot taller then a normal human and his body noticeably warmer, almost feverish. Furthermore, by using Detect Magic or a similar effect and studying them for 1 minute, faint traces of the magic bound to them can be made out, revealing their nature as augmented humans on a DC 20 Knowledge: Arcane check. Mechanically, a Praetori gains +4 to all attributes. This bonus inherent and can't be dispelled or suppressed, but counts as a Enhancement bonus for the purpose of stacking Bonuses. Their reflexes are also much faster then that of normal humans, giving them a +2 Competence Bonus on Reflex Saves and Initiative.

Artificial Organs (Ex)
As one of the most gruesome parts of the process to make a Praetori, all internal organs are removed from the patient and replaced with artificially grown replacements. These organs are necessary to support and sustain the enhanced physique of the Praetori and grant him greater resilience and a small measure of arcane power. A Praetori gains Light Fortification (25%) and whenever the check for this ability fails, the Praetori gains Fast Healing 3 for a number of rounds equal to his Constitution modifier as his body rapidly attempts to repair the damage done. Should this ability be triggered a second time while already active, the duration of the effect is extended by a number of rounds equal to his Constitution modifier. In addition, two special organs allow the Praetori to use the spells Cure Serious Wounds and Remove Disease once per day each as a SLA, with a Caster Level equal to his Hit Dice.

This comes at a price though, as the Praetori requires a large and special diet to keep his body functioning. A Praetori consumes twice as much food as a normal human and needs a large intake of meat, fresh fruit and special herbs. Without this diet, the Praetori will experience cravings as his body tries to gain the nutrition it needs, having him hunger for insects, powdered metals, alchemical reagents, fresh blood, wood or even stranger things. Even with this diet, many Praetori develop strange tastes in food, preferring their meat under-cooked if not even raw or eating leaves and other fibrous plants. Their stomachs can easily process these things though and Praetori can even consume spoiled food without issue, though they have no particular resilience to poisons and disease.

Enhanced Senses (Ex)
By adding special veins to eyes, ears and noses of the Praetori, their senses have been greatly enhanced. This augmentation isn't readily apparent when seeing them, showing only as slightly bumpy skin around the eyes, nose and ears, but anyone looking into the eyes of a Praetori will immediately notice it, as the net of veins can be seen starkly on their eyeballs. Through these veins, the Praetori gains a +2 Competence Bonus on Spot and Listen checks, Darkvision out to 120 ft. and the Scent ability.

Searing Hands (Su)
The hands of the Praetori have been adjusted to allow him to shape a minor bit of magic in the form of manifesting heat and flames. This effect is strong enough to deal grievous harm to any one he touches and can even be used to sheath weapons in flame for a short moment. As a swift action that does not provoke, they are able to cause their fists to glow white hot, allowing both their unarmed attacks or any metal melee weapon wielded, to do an additional 1d6 points of fire damage. Anyone or anything struck by this ability must make a Reflex save, DC 10 + 1/2 Hit Dice + Constitution Modifier, or be set on fire for 1d6 points of damage per round.

Indomitable Will (Ex)
It takes an iron will to endure the process of becoming a Praetori and often it is aided by strong magics so that they may survive them. As a result of these hardships, all Praetori have developed an exceptionally strong will, easily withstanding even the greatest fear or even sorcerous assaults on their minds. A Praetori gains a +4 Competence Bonus on all Will saves against Mind-Affecting effects.

Forged for War (Ex)
While the bodies of the Praetori were enhanced, their minds were not idly. In the depths of their dreams they glimpsed the echoes of champions long gone or yet to come, drinking in a figment of their experiences on a level deeper then conscious thought. Once they emerge from their alterations, they are trust into training that would easily break a normal man, geared to forge them into the finest warriors known to man. As a result of this, each Praetori gains Monkey Grip as a Bonus Feat and gain proficiency with all Simple and Martial weapons, all armors and all shields.
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While I'd pick DVs over Symbies any time, until DVs have the matching amount of fluff and body-modification involved (because fuck making Super-Soldiers via a single ritual), I cannot in right conscience take em up.

Plant Spehhs Mhreenes.
Just think about it y'all.
 
I'm on boat with @egoo on this one. Prefer the Praetori really. Needs to have them Astartes.

Actually...

Space Marine.

...oh God, there are Classes for these? Technically it's for 5e but you get what I'm saying!
 
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While somewhat detailed their fluff is nothing special, it's just "special people made more special through body modification" the basis of which is merely the existence of the flesh forge.

Actually from a read of the support the majority of the fluff is external to this thread, leveraging space marine fluff from an entirely different setting and genre.

There's nothing inherently wrong with this, I just think it shows how disconnected it really is as a concept.

At the end of the day DragonParadox will make the fluff work I'm sure.

Dragon Vassals are obviously going to be going through a highly demanding process that involves ensuring their suitability before the physical grafting of the very Flesh of the Emperor into their core.
 
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It's pretty annoying that the Praetorians were argued to be nerfed when they were first presented, yet now people are arguing to discard the entire proposal because it's not powerful enough.
Deliste said:
Dragon Vassals are obviously going to be going through a highly demanding process that involves ensuring their suitability before the physical grafting of the very Flesh of the Emperor into their core.
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What the fuck? This is what being a Dragon Vassal entails? I am not in favor of pieces of Viserys leaving his body. That is a massive strategic weakness.
 
Deliste said:
before the physical grafting of the very Flesh of the Emperor into their core.
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Bottom line, I'm extremely hesitant to do something like that for metaphysical reasons.

Grab/kill enough of such Champions, and even the "mostly disconnected scales" can probably be used in a ritual agaisnt us, the sort of enemies we have can easily follow through with that.

I'd rather re-fluff a whole bunch of Dragon-grafts to the roughly same effects that Praetorians and/or Vassals have, than taking this option as-is.

Edit: Duesal'd :p
 
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Duesal said:
It's pretty annoying that the Praetorians were argued to be nerfed when they were first presented, yet now people are arguing to discard the entire proposal because it's not powerful enough.

What the fuck? This is what being a Dragon Vassal entails? I am not in favor of pieces of Viserys leaving his body. That is a massive strategic weakness.
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That's part of the research action, making the link not a vulnerability to Viserys. Or at least that was my understanding.

Edit:

Rather than relying on my memory/assuming just let @Goldfish weigh in on what was discussed in DMs.
 
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Idk man, Praetori just dont seem that good to me. They are not artificial PCs are you guys are stating they are only a little better than level 5 soldiers from our army.
 
Well, it seems like as the game goes on, the threats we face get exponential. What may seem to OP a couple of months or a year back is useless or regulated to the baby PCs now.
 
Deliste said:
That's part of the research action, making the link not a vulnerability to Viserys. Or at least that was my understanding.
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Sorry, I'm not really buying it.
To that research, the sorts of Asmodeus can easily pull a counter-research.

Duesal said:
It's pretty annoying that the Praetorians were argued to be nerfed when they were first presented, yet now people are arguing to discard the entire proposal because it's not powerful enough.
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Yeah, you and me both.

Wanna bet people would argue against upgrading Dark Sister with the DP-approved plan next time?

We can always buff up the Praetorians, and at little cost considering the spot of proces we have in Fleshforge as-is, @Goldfish.
We. Have. The. Technology.

We even mulched some Devils to ease the Research, for fuck's sake.
We already dedicated a bit of attention to it IC.
 
Is it really an argument of strength?

At the end of the day they're just numbers that we will rate up or down as appropriate, the thematics seem more important to me and the Praetori...

 
Deliste said:
That's part of the research action, making the link not a vulnerability to Viserys. Or at least that was my understanding.

Edit:

Rather than relying on my memory/assuming just let @Goldfish weigh in on what was discussed in DMs.
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This isn't even just about the vulnerability to Viserys—grafts have always been non-regeneratable in this quest. If someone harvests the wings of an Erinyes for example those wings will never grow back until the harvested wings are destroyed.

This approach of harvesting Viserys' flesh seems like an absurdly bad idea.
Trek said:
Idk man, Praetori just dont seem that good to me. They are not artificial PCs are you guys are stating they are only a little better than level 5 soldiers from our army.
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It's literally taking level 5 PCs and enhancing them. The Legion is explicitly composed of NPCs with a Warrior class.

What's more frustrating is that the Praetorian faced continual nerfs during its proposal for stats, abilities, and pricing, and yet here we are now jumping at more power.
Deliste said:
Is it really an argument of strength?

At the end of the day they're just numbers that we will rate up or down as appropriate, the thematics seem more important to me and the Praetori...

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I absolutely hate the idea of harvesting anything from Viserys, and you can be sure I'll fight against this.
 
There's just a little bit of jumping at ghosts here, we will either be told it is safe or it is not, anything beyond that is just fear mongering honestly.

Asmodeus will take his own research action to negate our research action to make it safe?

By the same unfounded token we can't use plant/fungus forged grafts because they won't be loyal to us, only to the Old Gods, regardless of if we are told they will in fact be loyal to us because maybe the Old Gods are being deceitful or...something.

Or maybe it's just that the Other's will be the ones to take the research action to suborn all mortals so blessed by their enemy, being twisted reflections and all they are so closely related.
 
Deliste said:
By the same unfounded token we can't use plant/fungus forged grafts because they won't be loyal to us, only to the Old Gods, regardless of if we are told they will in fact be loyal to us because maybe the Old Gods are being deceitful or...something.
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...you are greatly misinterpreting what I said there.

They may be perfectly loyal to us.Still doesn't make having them linked to OGs a great deal.

Something happens to OGs (like another Hellven-tantrum, they are quite prone to them it seems)?
Lots of things connected directly get affected.


I also don't think OGs are needed to be tied to our Empire too closely, because I think they may interfere metaphysically with Imperial Dream/Imperial Deity if they are.
Which is why I advocate agaisnt blowing more RAs than strictly needed on upgrading the Heart Trees.

That's it.
The extent of my "paranoia" about OGs.
Sheesh.
 
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Deliste said:
There's just a little bit of jumping at ghosts here, we will either be told it is safe or it is not, anything beyond that is just fear mongering honestly.

Asmodeus will take his own research action to negate our research action to make it safe?

By the same unfounded token we can't use plant/fungus forged grafts because they won't be loyal to us, only to the Old Gods, regardless of if we are told they will in fact be loyal to us because maybe the Old Gods are being deceitful or...something.

Or maybe it's just that the Other's will be the ones to take the research action to suborn all mortals so blessed by their enemy, being twisted reflections and all they are so closely related.
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Disregarding the Praetorians, I will never, ever support grafts being harvested from Viserys. It introduces a pretty horrendous strategic disadvantage, and assuming we can magic up a solution to have Viserys regrow that flesh goes against everything we have known about grafts for the last 14,000 pages. It has always been hammered into our heads that a graft can never be regenerated.
 
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