(ideally something that can unlock underwater weirwoods)
A big problem there, is that PoW seemingly has no places for Heart Trees to anchor themselves to.
Their "bones of the earth" mechanic is annoying like that, needing reeeally deep base to go in :/

Or do you mean general "ignore atmospheric/water pressure"-thing of algae and such?
 
Hey look what I found. Pyrausta the littlest Dragons! Made of fire and apparently breaks the mold as the only actually non arrogant dragon I've ever seen.

You guys think Viserys could make these in a few Mytic Levels if he learns that Craft Fire Elementals thing from the book?
 
Last edited:
@Goldfish What was the maximum again?
Because this: Cetus – d20PFSRD looks great for a giant monster.
Excellent senses, good defences all around, a deadly grappler...

Also cute little familiars here: Dragon, Tidepool – d20PFSRD
CR 10 for the Fungal Forge.

We could probably work with one of these in the Flesh Forge, but considering its size and power, including the hefty supernatural abilities, I think DP is going to require us to have a corpse first.
 
...Wait a moment.
If we build a Flesh-forge on expanded* Shadow Tower's plane...
It'll get us access to Shadow-tempaltes?

Oh my~
:V

*currently in perspective only, we need a medium-difficulty RA done for that.

This sounds amazing, but Plant-forge (for which we are currently crafting a vote) is capped at 10CR.
General forge is 15CR (and unknown people-to plantpots ratio)

EDIT: G'fished
 
A big problem there, is that PoW seemingly has no places for Heart Trees to anchor themselves to.
Their "bones of the earth" mechanic is annoying like that, needing reeeally deep base to go in :/

Or do you mean general "ignore atmospheric/water pressure"-thing of algae and such?
This isn't for Plane of Water, this is for Prime Material. Plane of Water just happens to have the plantlife we can use for the research.
 
Hey looknwhatvi found. Pyrausta the littlest Dragons! Made of fire and apparently breaks the mold as the only actually non arrogant dragon I've ever seen.

You guys think Viserys could make these in a few Mytic Levels if he learns that Craft Fire Elementals thing from the book?
That is cute, if nothing else.
We can have Lya try her hand in crafting fire-spirits next month as a Minor Action.

Giving us isnight as to where look for as further RAs to upgrade said ability, in the process.


This isn't for Plane of Water, this is for Prime Material. Plane of Water just happens to have the plantlife we can use for the research.
I recon, if we find a particular place where PoW borders PoE...
But no, those are too unstable, iirc.

:(
Finding a way to grow HTs on PoA and PoW is hard :C
 
That is cute, if nothing else.
We can have Lya try her hand in crafting fire-spirits next month as a Minor Action.

Giving us isnight as to where look for as further RAs to upgrade said ability, in the process.



I recon, if we find a particular place where PoW borders PoE...
But no, those are too unstable, iirc.

:(
Finding a way to grow HTs on PoA and PoW is hard :C
If you want a tree in the PoW we can just grow a giant coral island to serve as the earth.
 
Should we ask any more questions about setting up trade connections? Dose any of the trade houses want to establish a branch on our plane?
@egoo
 
Should we ask any more questions about setting up trade connections? Dose any of the trade houses want to establish a branch on our plane?
@egoo
Well, we've been told that they are wary to go for a Gate connection yet - so we are proving ourselves good customers only for now.

We aren't going to try and get them into the anti-Efreeti alliance until later either - as was rightfully pointed out, we'll need Djinn and Shaitan representatives for that sort of action.

I don't mind trying to set up general trade agreements with all/some houses.
But without Gate connection, that faces some trouble still.

So, for now I thought just to look into their politics - DP said that some of them are irreconsilable with each-other - which means that we'll at least have a look over whom we want to work woth vs whom we'll "sacrifice" as a partner.

I'll add looking into what each house does for a living and specializes in.
I doubt DP will get to that all in single update really, but it won't hurt.

G'night all.
 
[X] Learn more about the political situation of the Plane of Water
-[X] Specifically, look into the ruling trade houses - and see who might be well-disposed to support the war on Illithids, but also learning of the houses' relations and interaction with each-other - preparing the ground for later attempt at getting support against Efreeti as well.
--[X] Additionally, look into what each Trade House specializes in - and what generally can be said about them, allowing us to decide on future trading partners in advance in light of some of them likely irreconcilably working agaisnt each-other.
-[X] Same applies to local Brine Dragons - learn if any around have particular dislike for illithids and desire to see them gone.
-[X] Also look into how Brine Dragons' feuds work according to laws and traditions. Would us helping in killing the one Relath has an eye for, be agaisnt those regulations?
 
I have no desire to add more Research Actions to our pile, but if we want to grow Heart Trees on Planes that cannot normally support them, we should figure out how to empower the trees' roots to burrow through the barriers between those Planes and Planetos. Not like using portals or Gates, which can be disrupted in various ways, but some sort of semi-permanent connection which the OG control.I

That said, I would rather just accept that there are some places a Heart Tree just isn't meant to grow.
 
He does not know her enough to make any strong guesses It's certainly not out of he realm of possibility that she just finds Relath attractive, he is unusually considerate of mortals for a young Brine Dragon for one.

Viserys: And so by not being an asshole you can actually make yourself a more favourable prospect than those many years your elder, even poaching from them before they have laid claim or received a mating price.

Relath: Amazing 😮
 
A Shade's Tale

Second Day of the Eleventh Month 293 AC

Two women sat by the fire in the shadow of the Howling Hills, where once it was said Gharak Squint-Eye, a great champion of the Zhorse Riders, slew the last of the stone giants of yore. Few of the Jogos Nhai ventured out from the plains these days, leaving brigands, exiles and worse to scramble and fight among the graveyard of the elder folk. Yet the two travelers did not seem troubled as the smell of freshly cooked antelope meat wafted on the night air for man or beast to smell, nor had they seemed to place any watch against danger, though one might catch the shadows dancing strangely out of the corner of the eye. A bow flickered in hands that held in truth parchment and stylus, or great black wings stretching out for a moment behind the dark-haired warrior.

"I wish those things would stop pulling at our shadows like that," Aradia sighed, looking up from her letter. "It's not like they can't just stand still. That's the entire point of spies that can meld with shadows, after all, or so Naria assured me."

"You have never had the ill fortune to work with an imp, have you?" Mereth's voice was wry rather then dismissive. "Trust me, a bit of play when no one is looking is infinitely preferable to the sorts of 'brilliant' plans the little pests come up with if given half a chance."

Whether in repose to her words or simply driven by the same boredom that had them sending the shadows dancing, a thin black mist rose from the darkness beyond the camp, two sparks of sickly yellow gleaming within. The figure the shadows resolved into might have charitably been called a dog, or perhaps the wavering charcoal depiction of one wrought by an artist with only a vague description to work with. Cautiously, the shadow creature approached the fury and tried to bump its head against her hand, though of course its misty substance passed through armor, flesh and bone, leaving only a small chill in its wake.

Far from pulling her hand away, the fallen looked at the shade approvingly. "See, they are actually trying to be helpful."

"Maybe you should throw it a stick to fetch," Aradia suggested, amused.

"Don't be ridiculous," Mereth snorted, something of her usual bite returning to he words. "It would no more be able to interact with a stick than it could with any other material object."

"Maybe we can have them hunt rabbits tomorrow," the incarnate suggested idly, eyes drifting back to the letter to Ser Balon, hand moving in quick and certain lines as she drew up a suggestion for a simple watchtower, the sort of thing that would help project the influence of his fief into the higher peaks. Nothing could really tame the mountains. Believing they could had been the mistake his folk had made for so long in their western fastnesses, but a careful hand and a keen eye could ensure no great foe mustered there, and if you had welcoming crafts and rich fields in the lowlands to offer them then many a mountain man would abandon the frigid heights. This was more Beryl's area to advise in, but Aradia did not mind lending a hand. It was more than a fair trade for all the times the Marcher lord's dry wit had made her smile at some escapade of the eager young knights that had followed him.

"More than rabbits out-about," the shadow spy's silent words drew the incarnate's attention away from the letter once more.

"Wolves?" she asked, reaching for her bow in case some ill-fortuned beast should try to make a meal of them. A few arrows whistling past their snouts should see them off without killing something they couldn't eat.

"Bigger," came the silent reply, still struggling for words.

"A bear then?" Mereth prompted, her unerring golden gaze piercing the dark of night as easily as the world under the midday sun.

"Bigger..." The shade paused a long moment, then with the child-like glee of finally finding the right words, it added. "Hills walk."

OOC: So I was thinking about how to make the Umbral Spies. I could have just made them something creepy, like a half-eaten were-creature dragging itself along the ground, but there is really no reason why Lya would make that, so playful shadow hounds it is, though ones with a great deal of patience when they are actually on the job.

Very cool @DragonParadox, thank you for including them in the quest and fleshing them out with personality.

Nice to see that Mereth is bonding well with them.

Do they have all the abilities linked such as Thought Link and Shadow Bond?

If the Erinyes are fond of them, given their Bond capability they can actually be transported by Self-Only Teleport.
 
We ready to talk about what we're going to flesh forge? Template suggestions, chassis, whatever?

Currently what we lack either via allies or existing assets are aquatic Middle-Tier CR combatants, aquatic mage-support, aquatic leviathan killers, and scouts.

We have light cavalry and line infantry via the Tritons, heavy cavalry and skirmishers via mercenaries, and high CR psionic champions and middle-high CR psionic support in general via the Gith.

And of course we have PCs well and truly covered, so if the Deep Ones have equivalent hero units we probably more than achieve parity there.

@DragonParadox Can we make/can Yss help us make Watchman creatures?

If so then I have the perfect Nightmare for our soggy friends.

Ultra-fast (160ft land, 240ft climb and swim plus extra move action and teleport capabilities) ambush predators (move into square to engulf, can beat unconcious and maintain unconscious state plus Discern Location and True Seeing) that are immune to half the Illithid's tricks (mind affecting and plants etc) while being capable of shutting down their at-will Plane Shift with Quickened Dimensional Anchor and softening them up with some Gaze attacks among other things.


@DragonParadox

Can we modify the spawning effect of Vinespawn so that it just paralyzes and nourishes? Can the effect work on Illithid, they're Aberrations but specifically spawn inside the brain cavity of humanoids.

Red is what should be modified from Templates, would appreciate a double check by @thread.


a)

b)

c)

Amphibious Quickling Vinespawn CR 10 + 0 (Amphibious) + 3 (Quickling)
Usually N Large plant
Init +9; Senses low-light vision; Listen +3, Spot +4
Languages —
AC 26, touch 18, flat-footed 13; Dodge, Mobility
(–1 size, +9 Dex, +4 natural)
hp 102 (12 HD); DR 5/slashing
Immune plant immunities
Weakness vulnerability to fire, aging vulnerability
Fort +11, Ref +15, Will +4
Speed 80 ft. (16 squares), climb 120 ft., Swim 120 ft
Melee 2 slams +14 each (1d8+6)
Ranged vine net +17 touch (entangle)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Base Atk +9; Grp +19
Atk Options Power Attack
Special Actions engulf, spawning
Abilities Str 22, Dex 29, Con 17, Int 5, Wis 10, Cha 12
SA engulf, spawning, rapid action
SQ plant traits, fast healing 3, rapid aging
Feats Dodge, Improved Natural Attack (slam), Lightning
Reflexes, Mobility, Power Attack, Quick Draw, Spring Attack (Dodge and Mobility Overlap)
Skills Climb +14, Hide +18 (+26 in forest as amphibious will this count kelp forest etc?), Listen +7, Move
Silently +12, Spot +8, Balance 14, Jump 10, Tumble 14
Advancement 13–24 HD (Large); 25–36 HD (Huge)

Vine Net (Ex) A vinespawn can hurl parts of its body up to 30 feet as a ranged attack. Each of these tightly wound balls of vine opens in flight to form a net that can entangle a creature up to one size category larger than the vinespawn. A vinespawn can create one vine net per day for every 4 Hit Dice that it has (normally three per day). Engulf (Ex) As a standard action, a vinespawn can flow over Medium or smaller creatures, entrapping them within its form. The vinespawn simply moves into the opponents' space; any creature whose space it completely covers is subject to the engulf attack. A vinespawn cannot make slam or vine net attacks during a round in which it engulfs. It can engulf as many creatures as can fit in its space.

Opponents can make attacks of opportunity against a vinespawn, but if they do they are not entitled to a saving throw. Those who do not attempt attacks of opportunity must succeed on a DC 18 Reflex save or be engulfed; on a success, a creature moves aside or back (opponent's choice) to move out of the vinespawn's path. The save DC is Strength-based.

As a swift action, a vinespawn can crush engulfed creatures, dealing 2d6+12 points of nonlethal damage. Engulfed creatures are considered grappled and trapped within the vinespawn's body, but they can attempt to damage the vinespawn or escape from it as with a normal grapple. A vinespawn is not considered to be grappling when it has engulfed a creature, and it cannot be pinned by an engulfed creature.

A creature engulfed by a vinespawn is subject to any area effect to which the vinespawn is subjected. Grappled and engulfed creatures lose any Dexterity bonus to AC but gain a +4 bonus on Reflex saves for having cover. An engulfed creature takes half damage from any attack that deals piercing damage to the vinespawn. This half damage is calculated before the vinespawn's damage reduction is applied to the attack. A vinespawn can choose to expel engulfed creatures as a standard action. If a vinespawn is killed, any engulfed creatures are freed.

Spawning (Ex) As a standard action, a vinespawn can attempt to insert its spawning root down the throat of an engulfed humanoid, monstrous humanoid, or giant. An unconscious engulfed creature cannot resist the spawning root. A vinespawn must succeed on a grapple check to infect any other creature. The engulfed creature takes 1d6+8 points of damage as the thorny appendage burrows into its stomach. The presence of a spawning root prevents talking, the casting of any spells with verbal
components, and other activities requiring speech. Removing a spawning root requires a successful grapple check by the creature invaded by the root, but doing so deals an extra 1d6 points of damage. If the vinespawn is killed, the spawning root can be removed without dealing damage.

A spawning root nourishes an unconscious creature, keeping it breathing while the vinespawn uses periodic swift actions to deal nonlethal damage and keep the target unconscious. If the target creature is left in this state for 1 day, vines grow through its veins. On the fourth day in this state, the victim dies as an adult vinespawn exits the body of its parent.

A vinespawn that is attacked during the spawning process can fight back but cannot move without disengaging its spawning root. Only if reduced to 20 or fewer hit points does it break off, disengaging the vine, dealing damage as above, and fleeing with engulfed creatures in tow.If extracted before the fourth day, the victim is sickened even when returned to consciousness. Such victims die in 2d4 days unless remove disease is used to destroy the vines that can be seen growing beneath their skin.

Aging Vulnerability (Ex)
A quickling takes 50% more damage from aging effects, including the number of years aged.

Speed: Each of the base creature's speeds is quadrupled. If the base creature has a fly speed, its maneuverability increases two categories (maximum perfect)/

Rapid Actions (Ex)
A quickling gains one extra attack or move action each round. This does not stack with other haste effects.

Quickling Casting (Ex)
All spells and spell-like abilities a quickling creature has can be cast as a swift action if it has a casting time of 1 round or less. Those spells and spell-like abilities with longer casting times have their casting times reduced to 1 round and take an attack action to cast. This ability cannot be used with the Quicken Spell or Quicken Spell-Like Ability feats.

Abilities: Dex +8.

Skills:
A quickling creature gains a +4 racial bonus on Perception
(Spot & Listen) checks and a +10 racial bonus on Acrobatics (Balance, Jump & Tumble) checks.

Rapid Aging (Ex)
A quickling ages 4 years for every 1 year that passes.


[X] Duesal
 
Here's what I have for a proposed Fungal Forge order based on what ya'll have said and my own preferences.

I largely focused my efforts on our aquatic forces, going for a mix of sizes and capabilities, from the Colossal+ Manta Rays to the Large-sized Eels. The Mantas are our heavy hitters, meant to destroy fortifications, engage large enemy units, and serve as carrier units, supplemented by the Huge-sized Orcas and Druid Orcas, while the Eels and Octopi can accompany our forces into structures to help clear them. The Hippocampi are individually somewhat weak, but they can each carry multiple riders, are cheap to produce, and benefit from the Plant-Imbued abilities described below.

The Plant-Imbued template is really the best option for us here, not only because it gives a great array of abilities and makes the creature sentient, but also because it gives them a 1/Day Sunburst SLA. That spell inflicts moderate untyped damage, has a Long range (760 feet at their level), and a massive 80ft radius of effect. It can also inflict temporary Blindness and inflicts extra damage against anything vulnerable to sunlight. Imagine the massed fire from dozens or more Plant-Imbued creatures focused on a relatively small area?

This is going to be a major expenditure, though. If ya'll want to trim expenses, I would remove the supplementary Scholarium instructors first. They're going to be helpful to have, but the guardians and aquatic forces are critically important.

Thoughts, suggestions, etc?

[] Fungal Forge Order: 11th Month
-[] Supplementary Scholarium Instructors:
--[] 30 Advanced Cleric Lotus Leshy (CR 8, 7 HD) - 2,400 IM each (72,000 IM)
--[] 30 Advanced Wizard Lotus Leshy (CR 8, 7 HD) - 2,400 IM each (72,000 IM)

-[] Heart Tree Guardians:
--[] 52 Verdant Wolves (CR 6, 6 HD) - 936 HD consumed
--[] 52 Advanced Lotus Leshy (CR 6, 7 HD) - 1092 HD consumed
--[] 26 Druid Creature Treants (CR 10, 7 HD) - 4,800 IM each (Total: 124,800 IM)

-[] Flesh Forge Guardians:
--[] 20 Verdant Wolves (CR 6, 6 HD) - 360 HD consumed
--[] 20 Advanced Lotus Leshy (CR 6, 7 HD) - 364 HD consumed
--[] 10 Druid Creature Treants (CR 10, 7 HD) - 4,800 IM each (Total: 48,000 IM)

-[] Aquatic Forces:
--[] 50 Advanced Plant-Imbued Gigantean Manta Ray (CR 6, 12 HD) - 1,800 HD consumed
--[] 780 Advanced Plant-Imbued Giant Hippocampus (CR 6, 2 HD) - 4,680 HD consumed
--[] 20 Plant-Imbued Giant Octopus (CR 10, 12 HD) - 4,800 IM each (96,000 IM)
--[] 50 Advanced Plant-Imbued Giant Moray Eel (CR 8, 7 HD) - 2,400 IM each (120,000 IM)
--[] 100 Advanced Plant-Imbued Orca (CR 8, 9 HD) - 2,400 IM each (Total: 240,000 IM)
--[] 20 Advanced Plant-Imbued Druid Creature Orca (CR 10, 9 HD) - 4,800 IM each (Total: 96,000 IM)

-[] Total Cost: 868,800 IM
-[] Total HD Expenditure: 9,232

@Goldfish

Wanted to check with you on the below CR10 (this is our Fungus Forge limit even with gold?) version of Vinespawn, is it going to be neutered by Illithid at-will Planeshift and its low wi//save or can it grapple them into submission?

They should do a bang up job of kidnapping non-Illithid too of course.

@DragonParadox

Can we modify the spawning effect of Vinespawn so that it just paralyzes and nourishes? Can the effect work on Illithid, they're Aberrations but specifically spawn inside the brain cavity of humanoids.

Red is what should be modified from Templates, would appreciate a double check by @thread.


a)

b)

c)

Amphibious Quickling Vinespawn CR 10 + 0 (Amphibious) + 3 (Quickling)
Usually N Large plant
Init +9; Senses low-light vision; Listen +3, Spot +4
Languages —
AC 26, touch 18, flat-footed 13; Dodge, Mobility
(–1 size, +9 Dex, +4 natural)
hp 102 (12 HD); DR 5/slashing
Immune plant immunities
Weakness vulnerability to fire, aging vulnerability
Fort +11, Ref +15, Will +4
Speed 80 ft. (16 squares), climb 120 ft., Swim 120 ft
Melee 2 slams +14 each (1d8+6)
Ranged vine net +17 touch (entangle)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Base Atk +9; Grp +19
Atk Options Power Attack
Special Actions engulf, spawning
Abilities Str 22, Dex 29, Con 17, Int 5, Wis 10, Cha 12
SA engulf, spawning, rapid action
SQ plant traits, fast healing 3, rapid aging
Feats Dodge, Improved Natural Attack (slam), Lightning
Reflexes, Mobility, Power Attack, Quick Draw, Spring Attack (Dodge and Mobility Overlap)
Skills Climb +14, Hide +18 (+26 in forest as amphibious will this count kelp forest etc?), Listen +7, Move
Silently +12, Spot +8, Balance 14, Jump 10, Tumble 14
Advancement 13–24 HD (Large); 25–36 HD (Huge)

Vine Net (Ex) A vinespawn can hurl parts of its body up to 30 feet as a ranged attack. Each of these tightly wound balls of vine opens in flight to form a net that can entangle a creature up to one size category larger than the vinespawn. A vinespawn can create one vine net per day for every 4 Hit Dice that it has (normally three per day). Engulf (Ex) As a standard action, a vinespawn can flow over Medium or smaller creatures, entrapping them within its form. The vinespawn simply moves into the opponents' space; any creature whose space it completely covers is subject to the engulf attack. A vinespawn cannot make slam or vine net attacks during a round in which it engulfs. It can engulf as many creatures as can fit in its space.

Opponents can make attacks of opportunity against a vinespawn, but if they do they are not entitled to a saving throw. Those who do not attempt attacks of opportunity must succeed on a DC 18 Reflex save or be engulfed; on a success, a creature moves aside or back (opponent's choice) to move out of the vinespawn's path. The save DC is Strength-based.

As a swift action, a vinespawn can crush engulfed creatures, dealing 2d6+12 points of nonlethal damage. Engulfed creatures are considered grappled and trapped within the vinespawn's body, but they can attempt to damage the vinespawn or escape from it as with a normal grapple. A vinespawn is not considered to be grappling when it has engulfed a creature, and it cannot be pinned by an engulfed creature.

A creature engulfed by a vinespawn is subject to any area effect to which the vinespawn is subjected. Grappled and engulfed creatures lose any Dexterity bonus to AC but gain a +4 bonus on Reflex saves for having cover. An engulfed creature takes half damage from any attack that deals piercing damage to the vinespawn. This half damage is calculated before the vinespawn's damage reduction is applied to the attack. A vinespawn can choose to expel engulfed creatures as a standard action. If a vinespawn is killed, any engulfed creatures are freed.

Spawning (Ex) As a standard action, a vinespawn can attempt to insert its spawning root down the throat of an engulfed humanoid, monstrous humanoid, or giant. An unconscious engulfed creature cannot resist the spawning root. A vinespawn must succeed on a grapple check to infect any other creature. The engulfed creature takes 1d6+8 points of damage as the thorny appendage burrows into its stomach. The presence of a spawning root prevents talking, the casting of any spells with verbal
components, and other activities requiring speech. Removing a spawning root requires a successful grapple check by the creature invaded by the root, but doing so deals an extra 1d6 points of damage. If the vinespawn is killed, the spawning root can be removed without dealing damage.

A spawning root nourishes an unconscious creature, keeping it breathing while the vinespawn uses periodic swift actions to deal nonlethal damage and keep the target unconscious. If the target creature is left in this state for 1 day, vines grow through its veins. On the fourth day in this state, the victim dies as an adult vinespawn exits the body of its parent.

A vinespawn that is attacked during the spawning process can fight back but cannot move without disengaging its spawning root. Only if reduced to 20 or fewer hit points does it break off, disengaging the vine, dealing damage as above, and fleeing with engulfed creatures in tow.If extracted before the fourth day, the victim is sickened even when returned to consciousness. Such victims die in 2d4 days unless remove disease is used to destroy the vines that can be seen growing beneath their skin.

Aging Vulnerability (Ex)
A quickling takes 50% more damage from aging effects, including the number of years aged.

Speed: Each of the base creature's speeds is quadrupled. If the base creature has a fly speed, its maneuverability increases two categories (maximum perfect)/

Rapid Actions (Ex)
A quickling gains one extra attack or move action each round. This does not stack with other haste effects.

Quickling Casting (Ex)
All spells and spell-like abilities a quickling creature has can be cast as a swift action if it has a casting time of 1 round or less. Those spells and spell-like abilities with longer casting times have their casting times reduced to 1 round and take an attack action to cast. This ability cannot be used with the Quicken Spell or Quicken Spell-Like Ability feats.

Abilities: Dex +8.

Skills:
A quickling creature gains a +4 racial bonus on Perception
(Spot & Listen) checks and a +10 racial bonus on Acrobatics (Balance, Jump & Tumble) checks.

Rapid Aging (Ex)
A quickling ages 4 years for every 1 year that passes.


[X] Duesal
 
@Deliste Yeah, the Fungus Forge has a 10 CR limit even using reagents. The whole body CR cap is more about how it's fractional.

The Flesh Forge on the other hand has a 15 CR limit.
 
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