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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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BoneyM said:
The Venn diagram between architectural experts and stealth is pretty much untouching among the Dwarves, so it would definitely be a challenge.

The only places you could get an angle on the entrance would be at the lip of the caldera, which would be fully exposed to being seen from both the citadel and the caldera.
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My brain is giving a slightly bonkers solution. What if we use Substance of Shadow to make the expert become invisible, silent, and insubstantial and then have Mathilde carry them to the citadel entrance? Presumably Mathilde can sneak down there and the spell should reduce most of the problems of their own stealth skill and if there is a problem, they can bug out on a Shadow Horse.

We need to have the target in shadows, but we might be able to get away with covering the dwarf with a blanket.
 
BoneyM said:
Flint, tinder, lamp oil.
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I am still hoping to see her light things on fire with her magical flame crown. Maybe that's just because I think it's funny, but it's also probably a lot faster than using flint in a pinch.

BoneyM said:
The most important factor in the plan is preventing reinforcements from reaching the Citadel, and conventional Dwarven warfare doesn't have a way to achieve that. You've proven yourself the reigning master of causing chaos and discord among their ranks, so your plan is likely to be the one the force goes with unless it's completely bonkers.
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The plan for setting on fire says "Propose lighting as much of Grobi Town on fire as possible, using whatever combination of your personal sneaking, magic to help others sneak, ranger sneaking, halfling sneaking, top-class dwarven incendiary technology, artillery-hurled incendiaries, and other means the war council can cook up. " It was structured this way to give Mathilde and the other characters the maximum reasonable amount of in-character freedom in figuring exactly what means would be most effective for solving the "how do we get Grobi Town on fire as much as possible" problem. They have a lot more details for planning this than we do, after all.

Since solving this problem is being identified as the key impediment to a successful assault on the Citadel, what kind of resources do we think would end up actually devoted to this problem, using this vote? Is Mathilde likely to be sneaking gunpowder-armed rangers/fieldwardens down into Grobi Town with her via Substance of Shadow and any convenient shadowed crevice in the cliff they can find to coordinate a large-scale sabotage operation, would we end up with artillery with incendiaries moving up as quickly as the assault can get the walls clear of orcs who would shoot at them, etc.? Or is this plan as written likely to end up being more of a wizard-takes-point-everyone-else-hopes endeavor? Or, I guess, is it just left to the dice to determine who thinks they can/wants to assist in the project?
 
Quest said:
My brain is giving a slightly bonkers solution. What if we use Substance of Shadow to make the expert become invisible, silent, and insubstantial and then have Mathilde carry them to the citadel entrance? Presumably Mathilde can sneak down there and the spell should reduce most of the problems of their own stealth skill and if there is a problem, they can bug out on a Shadow Horse.

We need to have the target in shadows, but we might be able to get away with covering the dwarf with a blanket.
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Make a plan and I'll vote for it you!
 
DarkLight140 said:
I am still hoping to see her light things on fire with her magical flame crown. Maybe that's just because I think it's funny, but it's also probably a lot faster than using flint in a pinch.

The plan for setting on fire says "Propose lighting as much of Grobi Town on fire as possible, using whatever combination of your personal sneaking, magic to help others sneak, ranger sneaking, halfling sneaking, top-class dwarven incendiary technology, artillery-hurled incendiaries, and other means the war council can cook up. " It was structured this way to give Mathilde and the other characters the maximum reasonable amount of in-character freedom in figuring exactly what means would be most effective for solving the "how do we get Grobi Town on fire as much as possible" problem. They have a lot more details for planning this than we do, after all.

Since solving this problem is being identified as the key impediment to a successful assault on the Citadel, what kind of resources do we think would end up actually devoted to this problem, using this vote? Is Mathilde likely to be sneaking gunpowder-armed rangers/fieldwardens down into Grobi Town with her via Substance of Shadow and any convenient shadowed crevice in the cliff they can find to coordinate a large-scale sabotage operation, would we end up with artillery with incendiaries moving up as quickly as the assault can get the walls clear of orcs who would shoot at them, etc.? Or is this plan as written likely to end up being more of a wizard-takes-point-everyone-else-hopes endeavor? Or, I guess, is it just left to the dice to determine who thinks they can/wants to assist in the project?
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If no specific plan is provided for arson, the most likely way of achieving it will be incendiary arrows and some sort of fiery ammunition in the grudge throwers from the Eastern Valley. If Mathilde gives specifics they'd likely be followed, but if just a goal is outlined then the solution is likely to play to Dwarven strengths and preferences.
 
[X] Plan Dwarf Trauma
-[X] Mathilde uses Substance of Shadow on a dwarven architectural expert to allow her to carry them to the citadel entrance.
-[X] Based on the report from the expert, explosives will be placed in order to collapse the entrance and prevent grobi reinforcements.

Thoughts?
 
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@BoneyM Could we please not do another unstructured write-in vote like this? A normal vote has the right amount of information to unknowns thah the QM wants for people to weight risks and benefits. But here, without the QM to clarify things the discussion quickly ended up going in circles. I've completely skipped the last 15 pages (9 hours) of discussion, something I'd normally not do, because discussion has been so aimless without QM-given direction.

Heck with it, here's a bigger ask: Can we have a do-over on the vote, please? Throw up a (temporary?) threadmark with your version of the various plans proposed, with the full reassurance that all of the possible winning votes will be viable instead of the current situation were people will argue the minutia of a plan's over-long wording till they're blue in the face?

(IDK if I'm making sense here, I'm half asleep so if this post is bad I'm sorry.)
 
I'll point out that if we collapse the citadel entrance, the orc town will still be there. So we can totally use Burning Shadows the next morning after we've captured the citadel. :drevil:
 
Derpmind said:
@BoneyM Could we please not do another unstructured write-in vote like this? A normal vote has the right amount of information to unknowns thah the QM wants for people to weight risks and benefits. But here, without the QM to clarify things the discussion quickly ended up going in circles. I've completely skipped the last 15 pages (9 hours) of discussion, something I'd normally not do, because discussion has been so aimless without QM-given direction.

Heck with it, here's a bigger ask: Can we have a do-over on the vote, please? Throw up a (temporary?) threadmark with your version of the various plans proposed, with the full reassurance that all of the possible winning votes will be viable instead of the current situation were people will argue the minutia of a plan's over-long wording till they're blue in the face?

(IDK if I'm making sense here, I'm half asleep so if this post is bad I'm sorry.)
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I would prefer this as well, tbh.
 
Okay, so now both plans as written have some problems:

The fire plan as-written will involve the dwarves dropping piles of combustibles and shooting fire arrows into grobitown, which is pretty far away from subtle and liable to be dangerous for any wizards running around in there setting fires. I assume the citadel orcs will notice grudge throwers lobbing burning piles of crap over the citadel and into the caldera.

The burning shadows plan involves assassinations that are high value but with tons of unknown variables and dangerous as hell to boot, plus a long waiting period while the light gets into position - the Ranald buffs wear off.
 
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Guile said:
Okay, so now both plans as written have some problems:

The fire plan as-written will involve the dwarves dropping piles of combustibles and shooting fire arrows into grobitown, which is pretty far away from subtle and liable to be dangerous for any wizards running around in there setting fires.

The burning shadows plan involves assassinations that are high value but with tons of unknown variables and dangerous as hell to boot, plus a long waiting period while the light gets into position - the Ranald buffs wear off.
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Vote for plan Dwarf Trauma! It's simple, effective and will allow us to move on to another plan with just a slight delay even if we fail. Plus, if we want to we can use Burning Shadows after capturing the Citadel negating much of the negative aspects of that plan such as waiting!
 
[X] Plan Burning Shadows
[X] Plan Dwarf Trauma


I don't like any plan that heavily relies on people other than Mathilde or unsupported by Mathilde doing sneaky things. Mathilde is an OCP that can magically disguise herself, whilst Dawi rangers aren't. They aren't going to be able to breeze through anti-Skaven sentries which will be there due to relatively disciplined Black Orcs being present and even greenskins having a burning wish for their town to not go up in flames constantly due to gutter runners.
 
Plan Dwarf Trauma is pretty excellent. It's basically a Plan Go Commando variant, but I liked Plan Go Commando a lot as well.

BoneyM said:
If no specific plan is provided for arson, the most likely way of achieving it will be incendiary arrows and some sort of fiery ammunition in the grudge throwers from the Eastern Valley. If Mathilde gives specifics they'd likely be followed, but if just a goal is outlined then the solution is likely to play to Dwarven strengths and preferences.
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Hm. Given this, Plan Light Everything On Fire And Kill Things may need an adjustment because it won't work well unless the place is lit up before the assault; if the greenskins in Grobi Town realize that an attack is on they'll start moving for the Citadel, and if the place isn't on fire until the attack is well underway then there will be time for a lot of reinforcements to get through, and for the general leadership/organization of the orcs to get them all flowing Citadel-wards and perhaps high-morale enough to brave the growing flames. We don't want the greenskins to have an enemy to point at when the fire initially starts.

Opinions, people? I'm thinking we would change "Ensure in particular that the portions closest to the Citadel entrance are lit up so that reinforcing the Citadel becomes difficult to impossible without charging into the flames." to "Ensure in particular that the portions closest to the Citadel entrance are lit up before the greenskins realize there is an incoming attack so that reinforcing the Citadel becomes difficult to impossible without charging into the flames." That should close this loophole- obviously, we're still perfectly happy to have fire arrows and artillery support the initial blaze afterward.
 
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Derpmind said:
@BoneyM Could we please not do another unstructured write-in vote like this? A normal vote has the right amount of information to unknowns thah the QM wants for people to weight risks and benefits. But here, without the QM to clarify things the discussion quickly ended up going in circles. I've completely skipped the last 15 pages (9 hours) of discussion, something I'd normally not do, because discussion has been so aimless without QM-given direction.
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Yeah, this wasn't ideal. If I ever leave the voting completely unstructured again it'll be when I'm able to be present for the majority of the voting period.

Between that and having significantly less voters than the last few votes, I'm gonna call this a failed experiment and hammer together the currently leading plans into options for a second vote.

Nickan said:
@BoneyM, does the magical belt make Mathilde fireproof, or Mathilde and her equipment (apparel, carried items etc) fireproof?
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Herself. Most of her things are fire-retardant but it does mean no lava diving without a change of clothes.
 
Quest said:
My brain is giving a slightly bonkers solution. What if we use Substance of Shadow to make the expert become invisible, silent, and insubstantial and then have Mathilde carry them to the citadel entrance? Presumably Mathilde can sneak down there and the spell should reduce most of the problems of their own stealth skill and if there is a problem, they can bug out on a Shadow Horse.

We need to have the target in shadows, but we might be able to get away with covering the dwarf with a blanket.
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My brain immediately went to Substance of Shadow, too. :V
Genius and madness, right?

If you wanted to refine the plan, maybe we'd bring the explosive charges along with the expert, and set them then and there, one trip.
 
Alliterate said:
My brain immediately went to Substance of Shadow, too. :V
Genius and madness, right?

If you wanted to refine the plan, maybe we'd bring the explosive charges along with the expert, and set them then and there, one trip.
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Great minds think alike. :p

On taking charges with us, we don't know how heavy the charges will be or what type we'll need. Excess weight might make sneaking harder.

I've considered specifying more detail, but I figure it's better to leave all of the minutiae to Mathilde. She's the expert in Ulgu/Stealth.
 
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