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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Should probably not kill him, because Lannisters will just cry out 'unlawful command, we are sheltering the child'

Further, am unconvinced he is fully irredeemable; An idiot, yes. A bigot, yes. But someone who loves the kid (or peace in his House) at some level still, otherwise would have killed such on the spot. Just need to convince him that we (the mage) are the lesser evil than Lanna (also a mage, but a Lannister to boot! - play on reputation)
 
das_slash said:
We need to get this Pokemon, we can get the whole Pantheon together again! I wonder where we could fit her? Seems kind of redundant with the Old Gods on our side, maybe specialize in more agricultural matters?
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She's absolutely fitting in the agricultural part of Divine market.
She was described as the Deity farmers worshipped already, after all - and if anyone can ensure her Divine blessings get spread efficiently throughout the world - that'd be us.

That aside, she'll fit well enough on some Westerosi territories - hsitorically there's precedent if nothing else - and OGs don't need worship, just blood.
They'll be fine.
 
das_slash said:
We need to get this Pokemon, we can get the whole Pantheon together again! I wonder where we could fit her? Seems kind of redundant with the Old Gods on our side, maybe specialize in more agricultural matters?
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She does actually specialize in agriculture, she is not a power of the wildwood, of the secret places broken from time, she is the godess of the good black earth, the one who sings the grain to rise.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I'm fine, thanks for asking though.
My rhetoric might be a little to much for this issue. I will admit to being a little frustrated by the way the thread just assume the whole world will collapse along just the right path to get everything we want at the price we want it for. We keep running on the margin with the assumption it'll never fail or backfire. It could be this, or something else. We don't know, so it's better not to assume anything.


I may be over estimating the issue I'll admit, but you are underestimating it. One, of course she can't pull it out of thin air, but she's had four years to figure something out. Thinking she can't hurt us because the obvious is out of the question is asking for a surprise. Two, we aren't the only people she has to worry about. How do you think everyone else in Westeros will treat her and her family after they're out of power? I'm not saying it's impossible, just that it'd require much more effort than it's worth. Would she even trust us to play witness protection agent?

I think I'm going to drop this issue for the moment, it's not going anywhere productive.

The only thing I really wanted out of this argument was to point out that our enemies are not in fact ineffectual toddlers, and that they have strong desires that put them in opposition to us. These are people, not cups we can empty out and fill up with whatever we please.
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Ok, don't be afraid to take it easy man. That's a decision a long way in the future.

Crake said:
[] With Edric and Lady Mallery's assistance, approach Lord Mallery in confidence. Without his brother's intervention and awakening of magic, Edric would have died and he would be at a loss of both sons.
-[] Moreover, the restless dead would likely be terrorizing the King's Wood anew, and the current King's Guard seem more inclined to rest on their laurels to repeat their feat and lay Simon Toyne in the dirt a second time. You can only imagine what such a being with a grudge could do unopposed if they had any time to gain ground.
-[] The Lannisters are unworthy of a young man of such bravery, and, moreover, it's politically insolvent to support House Lannister in any manner.

Not really convinced what the right play here is.

Do we really need the Lord? I'm hesitant to kill him. This situation is instantly resolved if we just get him to recall his son.
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Everything but the last paragraph seems extraordinarily weak?

Perhaps point out that the Lannisters put magical compulsions on their students, the kind that kill them. And that he is a genuine miracle worker of the ancient goddess mother Earth. He can't ever BE the heir, but treating someone watched over by a god with disrespect is foolish.

Then chew him out for not getting the whole story from his children.

Then chew the kids out about being evasive as well?

If mother Earth hadn't intervened the golden shields would probably be torching this province right now.

In fact, that's a good idea. @Crake explain how bad undead infestations can get, and the golden shields way of handling things.
 
The seven kingdoms already know there is more than a single god, even if the seven are assholes about it.
anyone with even decent knowledge should know that the Old Gods are still revered in the North.
Maybe build on that to tell him that there are more Gods, both good and evil.
 
Look, can we talk to the dad before doing a kidnap action? I kinda get it. It was a stupid call. But I can see this guy coming to this fully rationally and benignly as a course of action. Guy comes home one day to find both his kids traumatized. One has recurring problems and the other spontaneously starts bending reality.

Neither talk about it and suddenly a lady shows up. A well known mage famous through the land and she sits you down and tells you your kid needs help. Not the one with nightmares. The one with magic. He's got a gift but that gift can be dangerous if he isnt taught properly. Both to him and others. She looks sideways at your eldest who screams at night.

You dont know what to do. You've tried helping them but they wont even tell you what the problem is. You dont know magic outside a few sermons as a kid calling it a curse. Something that eats away at people. Blood magic and worse things. Nothing good in those tales. Especially for the Mage by the end.

You dont want that for your son. She says again she can help him. Teach him, let him meet others like him. People he can talk to. People he will talk to. The "Unlike you" goes unsaid.

Damn her and damn yourself too because you dont have the words to argue with her. So...you say yes. You'll send your son with her. To train under her and hopefully help him through this. Because that's the only thing you can do except sit by and do nothing.

Damn yourself again but that's the only option here. You try convincing yourself of that. You tell you wife and kids that. And you keep telling yourself that the next few days after they leave.

Honestly cant fault the guy from this side of things. Atleast not with what we know so far.

Let's talk to him, give him the full details and get the kid back that way. Honestly thing that's the best idea here.
 
Actually you guys think it is possible to use those printing presses to spread the word and worship of the Near Dead gods throughout our Empire? That way they would get new worshippers.
 
egoo said:
She's absolutely fitting in the agricultural part of Divine market.
She was described as the Deity farmers worshipped already, after all - and if anyone can ensure her Divine blessings get spread efficiently throughout the world - that'd be us.

That aside, she'll fit well enough on some Westerosi territories - hsitorically there's precedent if nothing else - and OGs don't need worship, just blood.
They'll be fine.
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Wait, where did we get those agricultural rituals again? If we based it on, or pulled it wholesale from, any of the first men lore we have it could be indirectly feeding her.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
Actually you guys think it is possible to use those printing presses to spread the word and worship of the Near Dead gods throughout our Empire? That way they would get new worshippers.
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Not a bad idea at all. We could have a Divine Times magazine and each approved god gets their own page to advertise however they please, with rotating placements on who gets put on the cover.
BronzeTongue said:
Wait, where did we get those agricultural rituals again? If we based it on, or pulled it wholesale from, any of the first men lore we have it could be indirectly feeding her.
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They were developed by Yrael and the Archons in Mantarys before they swore fealty to us.
 
Okay, what I'm thinking is, we explain that religion is an expansive subject and there's no one correct answer, but rather there are many answers that weave into one tapestry that is the world. Then promise him that we'll introduce him to some people who can answer his questions when it would be less awkward to cart him around (as anything less is basically just kidnapping).

Then as @das_slash suggested give him some social buffs and have his help convincing his father that he was mistaken with those juicy circumstantual bonuses. Hell, VotD and Air of Nobility + Divine Insight combined with Opinion modifiers from being family would be cake.
 
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Crake said:
Okay, what I'm thinking is, we explain that religion is an expansive subject and there's no one correct answer, but rather there are many answers that weave into one tapestry that is the world. Then promise him that we'll introduce him to some people who can answer his questions was it would be less awkward to cart him around (as anything less is basically just kidnapping).

Then as @das_slash suggested give him some social buffs and have his help convincing his father that he was mistaken with those juicy circumstantual bonuses. Hell, VotD and Air of Nobility + Divine Insight combined with Opinion modifiers from being family would be cake.
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We should combine this with finding a way to talk to them as well. This takes care of getting the kid back, but we're here to subvert the House.
 
Crake said:
[] With Edric and Lady Mallery's assistance, approach Lord Mallery in confidence. Without his brother's intervention and awakening of magic, Edric would have died and he would be at a loss of both sons.
-[] Moreover, the restless dead would likely be terrorizing the King's Wood anew, and the current King's Guard seem more inclined to rest on their laurels to repeat their feat and lay Simon Toyne in the dirt a second time. You can only imagine what such a being with a grudge could do unopposed if they had any time to gain ground.
-[] The Lannisters are unworthy of a young man of such bravery, and, moreover, it's politically insolvent to support House Lannister in any manner.

Not really convinced what the right play here is.

Do we really need the Lord? I'm hesitant to kill him. This situation is instantly resolved if we just get him to recall his son.
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What is to stop us from directly confronting the man and outright telling him he has sent his son to be a Lannister stooge? We know they are using loyalty enforcing magic, and have encountered multiple examples. Does he really want his spare to be a Lannister puppet? That would place Denys just two unfortunate deaths from control of house Mallery.

[X] Crake
 
[] Every man should be judged by their deeds, and laying these dead to rest was a good one.
-[] There are more gods than the seven, the North holds to the Old Gods still.
-[] In my kingdom no one gets persecuted for holding to the gods he believes in, only for breaking a law.

what about that for an answer?
 
Crake said:
Okay, what I'm thinking is, we explain that religion is an expansive subject and there's no one correct answer, but rather there are many answers that weave into one tapestry that is the world. Then promise him that we'll introduce him to some people who can answer his questions when it would be less awkward to cart him around (as anything less is basically just kidnapping).

Then as @das_slash suggested give him some social buffs and have his help convincing his father that he was mistaken with those juicy circumstantual bonuses. Hell, VotD and Air of Nobility + Divine Insight combined with Opinion modifiers from being family would be cake.
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And then he pulls his son back because...?

Also addressing the other sons concern.
 
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@Crake keep in mind that we may not be able to crack him from a religious perspective, but we might well reach him from a loyalty to your king angle, if we can convince him we are his rightful ruler then he has to accept his son back or implicitly say he disapproves of our being and choices.
 
Duesal said:
That's the beauty of it. He doesn't have to offer any reasoning. It's his son, and the Golden Shields straight up don't have the authority to demand an explanation on why the lord wants his son back home.
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No, I mean after we enlighten him as to the proper reality why would he call his son back? Or join us?

Throwing in something to convince him specifically is good.
 
We could always go about it indirectly. Skip the father, look for whatever holy place the earth mother had in the woods. She probably needed one to act as she did. If we find one, negotiate with her - offering sacrifices and a temple if she supports the empire in her traditional role. If it works out, give her the juice to nab her priest back in exchange for sending him to minister to SD. We were never here as far as the rest of the world is concerned. Just the Lannisters pissing off another god and sending it over to the dragon's camp.

How much could it reasonably cost to teleport/earth stride her own willing priest to one of her holy places? We're probably good for it, supposing she likes the taste of fiend.
 
zxzx24 said:
No, I mean after we enlighten him as to the proper reality why would he call his son back? Or join us?

Throwing in something to convince him specifically is good.
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Probably because were it not for him believing the boy was responsible for his heir's nightmare's somehow he wouldn't have sent him off in the first place.

Because both his heir and his wife hate him for doing it at all, and he's about to be made acutely aware of the fact.

Because we're going to personally tell him the less than savory methods the Golden Shields use to keep their mages in check.

There would be little reason the lord wouldn't call his son back after we're done with him.
 
BronzeTongue said:
look for whatever holy place the earth mother had in the woods. She probably needed one to act as she did.
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Holy shit, you are right.
And we probably can easily-ish find it with Divination now that we assume it exists, too!

Alright, I'm adding looking itno that next turn as an MA.
She and Storm God may not be ready to wrangle Tiamat, but they'll be in our fold soon enough.
 
As for the heir. He has been rattled in his certain faith, because he saw power from a different deity.
Because the seven foolishly preach they are the only gods.
We also have to answer him before we do anything else. Just leaving him hanging aint fair.

We also are a king, he almost called us "Your Grace", so we have some amount of respect already.
The guy has been rattled and left on somewhat unstable footing in his faith.
As long as we are a bit careful, we can shift his world view a bit towards polytheism.
We can also honestly say we are closer to the Old Gods than the Seven (which is true, even if not in a worship sense).
 
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