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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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DIVIDED LOYALTIES IS BAAACK !!!
It's amazing, and you should all go and read it.



I have another class choice for you all : you are in stasis alongside Malarys and his fellow daring/insane/corrupted Valyrians. You will awaken at the same time as Malarys, surrounded by enemy casters + Golden Company and a while before Viserys arrives. You have very little gear, and you must be a Silverbrow human without Templates. However, you have a 3.5 class and your level is 5 + twice your tier (no PrCs that advance or provide any spellcasting or any (Sp) or (Su) abilities).
Retraining is possible, but will take ages and will require teachers.

The other people in stasis will have a general idea of your common abilities (the body you appeared in has a history and all, you just don't know it), but you have no setting knowledge beyond your skill points. Furthermore, their idea of your personality and desires will likely be wildly off, as you are not this body's previous owner.

The real hard choice here : do I want to be a full caster despite the immediate risks of death, or do I want to pick something like Monk 15 and try to wreck face? Or is there a build idea that would make Warrior 17 worth it despite the PrC restrictions? Is Shadowcaster 13 better than Wizard 7 or Sorcerer 9?
Will TNE pull out some crazy feat combo and make survival possible?

While being a Tier 1 class would be amazing, I can't think of a way to be one that wouldn't result in my death at the hands of the Golden Company. Pretending to be dead and waiting for Viserys is an option, I suppose... I just find it utterly insane. I guess I'm not quite as badass as Malarys.
I'd pick Shadowcaster 13, honestly. Flicker is great, and it can Shadow Walk out of this whole mess. Its potential is limited, but I suppose that there's always retraining and begging to become a useful Companion! It's also a potential crafter thanks to Greater Shadow Evocation.

I was tempted by a Warrior 17 build with as many Ancestral Relic feats as possible. It's possible to change the item instantly if it doesn't change its cost, and a high-level martial PC with access to custom magic items stands a fairly good chance of straight-up killing any mid-level casters and their pet army. Right?
 
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tarrangar said:
The dual fealty would basically be, that we get to command them when they're in the mortal world, the Court of stars get to command them in the Feywild, so there wouldn't be conflicts of interest, the way Fey are bound by their oaths, mean that unless we decided to send the ones sworn to us on missions in the Feywild, the fact that they are sworn to us in the material world, mean that only if we enter the Feywild, can they break their oaths.
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There absolutely would be conflicts of interest by the very nature of that arrangement. No. Just no.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
He is stronger than the Sultana? Oh well maybe he should stay asleep.
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Don't worry, we'll burn that bridge when we get to it. Ultimately it just means CR 20/MR 10, but we've started regularly taking down CR 20+ threats (Aspect of Mammon, Maharaja Rakshasa, Oblivion Ooze, etc.), and the Mythic Ranks are annoying but not impossible to deal with.

If we ever do come into open conflict it'd be devastating but we'd still come out on top.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
Okay so clearly we need to find out the things we want from them. So make a list.

What I want from Lucan and the Seven are as follows:
1. Payment for the Old Gods to satiate them
2. Their oath that they will follow the laws of our land
3. The submission of all lore that the temples collect to be given over (Concides with 1. We need this dealt with in our empire soon)
4. The restriction of forces to temple guards only (as with every other religion) (Also coincides with 1)


Anything else?
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What difficulties do you expect when asking for these?

Given the piles of dead children around the Weirwoods, you may wish to word "reparations" more carefully, but everything else looks fine.
 
DragonParadox said:
That may also be a bit of an overstatement, the Fey King may be as strong as the Sultana (perhaps stronger since he is much older) but the fey themselves are exiles only now reestablishing themselves in a changed world, quite far from the Shaitan's litterally rock solid empire.
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Don't they have a great kingdom in the Feywild? I mean sure they were exiled from the material world, but the Feywild is a plane in it's own right, and it's dominated by the Fae, I got the impression that the Court of Stars were one of the most powerful there, if not the most powerful.

Have I misunderstood something? I thought that while the Fey had limited power in the mortal world, on their own plane they could compete with other planar empires.
Crake said:
Two people can't wear the same hat, or one could argue your other hat guy said you could do it, so "take it up with them".
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They can't wear two hats if their hats intersect, but if they are firmly divided up, then it's possible, in this case the divide would be them in the Feywild and them in the mortal world.
 
tarrangar said:
Don't they have a great kingdom in the Feywild? I mean sure they were exiled from the material world, but the Feywild is a plane in it's own right, and it's dominated by the Fae, I got the impression that the Court of Stars were one of the most powerful there, if not the most powerful.

Have I misunderstood something? I thought that while the Fey had limited power in the mortal world, on their own plane they could compete with other planar empires.
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They do, but the fey are fundamentally symbiotic with the material realm or at least they should be, their exile has weakened them considerably.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Here it is. It's great, even if you know little about Warhammer Fantasy (like me!)

@Duesal, any fight against the Sultana or a major Fey King is only winnable if we limit their access to allies, wards and hopefully even items. Otherwise they could crush us.
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To an extent. They've got lots of individually powerful fey, yeah, but we've got means of countering them if it ever comes to open war. As for the major Fey King, if it comes to war... he's not going to have his crown, so we'll be at a big advantage.

The Shaitan I have no intention of ever fighting, so moot point. They've been wonderful allies.
DragonParadox said:
The Merling King is in charge of the vast majority of them (since those who did not accept his rule and protection became Deep One food).
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Oh, sweet. :D So the Tritons will know how to reach them? Can we try to bargain with them to get them to teach us wards for use in the seas so we can put them in our harbors?
 
zxzx24 said:
What difficulties do you expect when asking for these?

Given the piles of dead children around the Weirwoods, you may wish to word "reparations" more carefully, but everything else looks fine.
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All of them have issues that could cause them to not be okay.
1. Reparations/ Payment could be seen poorly. Extremely poorly depending on their opinions on the Andal Invasion
2. Our laws include allowances of Necromancy and Blood magic and Fleshcrafting. I dont see them being too okay with all that either.
3. They could want to be a counter measure to our Imperium and may not want to give it away.
4. Second verse, same as the first. Would see the end of that new order that was made.
 
DragonParadox said:
Yes, though most of them do not have the temperament to stay put in your harbors.
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That's fine, I don't plan on stealing a court from the Merling King, I was just wondering if there were deep sea wards that we could bargain to learn, like we bargained to learn the Deepest Veils ward from the Orphne.

Unless the deep sea wards are alive and that's what you meant when you said they don't have the temperament to stay put...? Did they make Cerulean Sign Living Spells or something?
 
Crake said:
Divided Loyalties ELI5?
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Mathilde Weber is a young woman who was born a farmer, spent some time shut in a school reading bad fiction, and is now a Journeywoman of the Grey Order. That means she knows two spells of shadow magic and has no practical experience of spycraft, leadership or administration.
Somehow, she is now the spy-mistress for an entire province of the Empire. This province is famously corrupt, full of enemy plots and incompetent Imperial servants. Of course, the new Elector Count seems amazing!
Shame that she's got those Divided Loyalties, though. Will she follow the mysterious coded orders magically implanted behind her eyelids, or will she be a loyal servant of the Witch Hunter they've chosen as Elector Count? Will she manage to defeat the almighty Wizard Chic, embodiment of fashion gone wrong? Will she die horribly as she faces off against ancient Vampire Lords and Noble Families? Will "shadow poney" ever stop being her best spell? Will she embezzle money to pay off her debts despite the fiscal crisis ? And what's up with those damn serendipitous cats ?!?
Read the quest to find out!

Oh, and Mathilde's characterization is fantastic. This is NOT a CK2 quest where all that counts are the numbers.
 
Duesal said:
That's fine, I don't plan on stealing a court from the Merling King, I was just wondering if there were deep sea wards that we could bargain to learn, like we bargained to learn the Deepest Veils ward from the Orphne.

Unless the deep sea wards are alive and that's what you meant when you said they don't have the temperament to stay put...? Did they make Cerulean Sign Living Spells or something?
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I meant the fey would not stay put, the wards are stationary.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Mathilde Weber is a young woman who was born a farmer, spent some time shut in a school reading bad fiction, and is now a Journeywoman of the Grey Order. That means she knows two spells of shadow magic and has no practical experience of spycraft, leadership or administration.
Somehow, she is now the spy-mistress for an entire province of the Empire. This province is famously corrupt, full of enemy plots and incompetent Imperial servants. Of course, the new Elector Count seems amazing!
Shame that she's got those Divided Loyalties, though. Will she follow the mysterious coded orders magically implanted behind her eyelids, or will she be a loyal servant of the Witch Hunter they've chosen as Elector Count? Will she manage to defeat the almighty Wizard Chic, embodiment of fashion gone wrong? Will she die horribly as she faces off against ancient Vampire Lords and Noble Families? Will "shadow poney" ever stop being her best spell? Will she embezzle money to pay off her debts despite the fiscal crisis ? And what's up with those damn serendipitous cats ?!?
Read the quest to find out!

Oh, and Mathilde's characterization is fantastic. This is NOT a CK2 quest where all that counts are the numbers.
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That sounds amazing and you described it amazingly. Just how? Why?!
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
1. Reparations/ Payment could be seen poorly. Extremely poorly depending on their opinions on the Andal Invasion
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Danelle at least thinks it was a tragedy.
DragonParadox said:
  1. Her opinion of the first is that it was a horrific moment in history fueled as much by greed as zeal, but that it does not deserve more bloodshed (she said so during the conclave)
  2. For the second you would have to ask her
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So if you want to pull that heartstring feel free. You need to stop trying to gloss over the old gods contribution to the body pile of you want her to treat you like a sane being though. And you guys do gloss over it.

One Autumn Leaf said:
2. Our laws include allowances of Necromancy and Blood magic and Fleshcrafting. I dont see them being too okay with all that either.
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We convinced Yrael. We actually have an entire portfolio of justifications for these we have been building since day one. Showing it off would be fun.

One Autumn Leaf said:
3. They could want to be a counter measure to our Imperium and may not want to give it away.
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They are presently gearing up tk oppose us in the socio economic ring. The trade laws, the order of diplomatic focused mages, ect... I'm not sure why you think they plan on fighting us.

One Autumn Leaf said:
4. Second verse, same as the first. Would see the end of that new order that was made.
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They de armed after the conclave. Likely by our own laws we would ha e to hire temple gaurds for them.
 
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zxzx24 said:
So if you want to pull that heartstring feel free. You need to stop trying to gloss over the old gods contribution to the body pile of you want her to treat you like a sane being though. And you guys do gloss over it.
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The Old gods body count is just not all that relevant, it don't change that the Seven attacked unprovoked, at most it means, that the Old gods have already taken part of their reparations in blood.
 
Damn. Training new people sucks. Barely been able to check the thread all day.
One Autumn Leaf said:
He is stronger than the Sultana? Oh well maybe he should stay asleep.
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Duesal said:
Don't worry, we'll burn that bridge when we get to it. Ultimately it just means CR 20/MR 10, but we've started regularly taking down CR 20+ threats (Aspect of Mammon, Maharaja Rakshasa, Oblivion Ooze, etc.), and the Mythic Ranks are annoying but not impossible to deal with.

If we ever do come into open conflict it'd be devastating but we'd still come out on top.
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TalonofAnathrax said:
Here it is. It's great, even if you know little about Warhammer Fantasy (like me!)

@Duesal, any fight against the Sultana or a major Fey King is only winnable if we limit their access to allies, wards and hopefully even items. Otherwise they could crush us.
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Ya'll are getting the Shaitan Sultana of the Peerless Empire confused with the Efreeti Sultan of the Brazen Throne.

Unless @DragonParadox has buffed her by a lot, she isn't quite that deadly. The Pathfinder source material, Planes of Power, which cites the Opaline Vault, lists her as a 14th level Geokinitecist. Add that to the standard CR 13 Noble Shaitan and she's probably around CR 20. It would be fair to add another +1 or +2 from outrageously good gear, too.

A threat, but hardly an insurmountable one. Not that I expect we would ever need to fight her.

EDIT: Her abilities as a Geokinitecist do likely stack really well with her inherent abilities, though.
 
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@zxzx24 I can't really reply point by point to yours by quote so I will do it here.

1. I know Danielle thinks it is a tragedy and I am not glossing over the mass murder that the Old Gods committed but we made a vow to the Old Gods to humble the Seven so we get the payment for them. All in all if Lucan or any other champion thinks that the invasions were justified then we aren't going to get reparations. Because they will feel they did nothing wrong and will most likely refuse to pay it. Or worse they will refuse so that the blood of the past stays in the past. Like Danielle wants to.

2. Yrael fell. And the portfolio of justifications only work with people who are willing to bend on their principle. Does Lucan seem like he will bend his principles? In this regard I agree with @Duesal. He sees Blood Sacrifice and Necromancy as evil and will stand against it. And why wouldn't he? It is evil. It is evil in service of a goal. But evil nonetheless. To put it into perspective. We have stained our hands with Evil to defeat the Greater evil.

3. And that is a counter measure to the Imperium. A lot of the things they would try to use to make our lives more difficult would be things we would remove. And they wouldn't be pleased with us doing it As for the "Order of Diplomatic Mages" well I have already pointed out how easy it is to turn vows away. Just say "These people have abandoned their humanity and are monsters" and then initiate conflict. At best they will be treated like other Clerical organizations with their libraries and spells exposed to us to learn. At worst they will refuse this and will be destroyed, their lore taken.


I am not one to pull heartstrings btw. I dont give a shit about heartstrings. I give a shit about vows and security. If they can agree to all above points then we dont have to fight them. If not...well we tried.

Edit: 4. Because they didn't de arm. They have gone into "We won't harm humans" which again is up for definition as to what a human is and they are in charge of that definition.
 
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