Voting is open
Do we know what happened to all the supplies on the now mostly empty cargo ships we just seized? Did they return the supplies to Buffalo before their suicide mission or did they dump all the supplies on the garrison forces on the islands?
Buffalo was bankrupted to create a land convoy to get supplies to the Leamington force before they got word that said force was already dead. I presume the two remaining lakers had their loads taken to help contribute to that.

Edit: Ninja'd and proven wrong. Guess it's all at the islands. Gonna make sieging a pain, but then again, we outrange them with tube arty, and it's not like we're in any particular hurry for them.
 
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So it was Toledo. Huh.
Their representative has explained the situation to you, and in a few hours' time, the switch will be made public. How do you respond?
The more openly Toledo acts, the more they bind themselves to us.

Victoria are the kind of people to bear a grudge and to act on it; see what they did during the Pacific War. Toledo jumping the VAF base would attract major reprisals in the event of a Victorian victory, but if they openly help in destroying the remnants of the Victorian field army, they are welded to us for a generation.

Because if Victoria ever get the upper hand over them ever again, they'll destroy the city and massacre the population in retaliation.

So after this?
Expect an application for an alliance or even outright accession to the Commonwealth.
Especially since they're going to need food aid after several weeks of Victorian foraging during the planting season.

Furthermore, if Toledo deploy two divisions of roughly 10-15k each in the Victorian rear, in combination with our own 3 divisions of 45k total, it brings us up to numerical parity or even superiority over the remnants of the Victorian army, which should drastically drop our casualty rates. And act as a further morale malus to the Vics.

And then there are the widerscale implications.
It means the Victorians will be more paranoid about their local allies turning coat, which means they have to keep forces back to guard their rear areas, and harsher treatment of collaborators, including disarmament when they move in.

The sort of thing that drives people away. Not that they need much encouragement.

Our willingness to accept turncoats also drives a propaganda stake into the heart of Victoria diplomatic strategy.
Kinda hard to villify Hellfire Burns as coming to destroy your homes when he accepts somewhere like Toledo peacing out from the Victorian war effort.

I will point out, though, that these are militia. Part time soldiers. Well trained parttimers, but still parttimers. They are acting in defence of their homes, and comparatively few of them have any interest in a professional military career. So don't expect them to suddenly inflate our military numbers except in defence.

We want more soldiers, we're going to have to recruit them.



[]Plan Sticking The Boot In
-[ ] Toledo's aid is welcome. They have made mistakes, but they would not be the first to ally with or abet the Victorians out of fear. After all, had you not acted as swiftly as you did, Detroit would currently be an enemy stronghold. You will accept Toledo's aid. They can find their redemption in the thickest and hardest parts of the battle.
-[ ] Yes. Your pilots have fought in counter-insurgency operations for literal decades. They have a lot of institutional expertise and knowledge, and have dealt with anti-aircraft weapons before. Their aid will be invaluable, and you trust them. A twenty-five plane air wing is better than nothing.

REASONS
-Toledo fighting and bleeding to wreck the Vics makes it easier to sell their flipping sides as genuine, both at home and to Detroit.
And is a propaganda victory abroad, which is critical to any nation looking to expand peacefully. Plus the firepower advantage of adding another 20 to 30k Quality 2 troops to this particular battle will drastically reduce our casualties.

-We actually need some experience with combined arms. Naval + air + land.
The more vectors of simultaneous attack there are, the less any given military arm or force suffers casuaties.

I would not risk the CAF normally.
But with the VAF confirmed grounded, Victorian supply issues beginning to bite properly, and the Toledo Militia jumping them from behind, this is pretty much as good as it gets.

Plus, the benefits of aerial reconaissance in directing artillery fire are pretty fucking big.
 
It's also a piston-engine, unarmed scout plane with a low ceiling, horrible maneuverability, no speed, and with a structure that an M4A1 Carbine could savage, but you now can say that you own 214 of them.
The Commonwealth Postal Service thanks Victoria for it's contributions to the spread of mail and revivalism across the Midwest and down the Mississipi.
It is most definitely not worth it because the planes that can run CAS will be vulnerable to Manpads. We've already won. The Toledo forces hitting the Vics seal the deal.There is little reason to risk our experienced pilots when we need those pilots to teach more pilots. We will probably outnumber the Vics or at least have numerical parity. 0lus we have our gunships providing fire support.
Experienced prop pilots, not jet pilots.
There's actually a significant difference, or so I'm told. Can't just swap one set out for another.

We do want to conserve them, but we shouldn't be expecting significant aerial losses here from Vics whose supply issues are beginning to bite. They just lost acces to what stores are left in Toledo.
 
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ah, welp so much for starving them out. I mean, they might freeze in the winter? but we're probably going to have to assault at least some of them. well, at least we got some big ole landing craft?
The very biggest island is 42 sq km. The next biggest is 11 sq km.
The one after that is 6 sq km. The one after that is 3 sq km.
And so on.

There isn't that much space to store food or other supplies that isn't accessible to naval artillery bombardment.
There isn't any fuel to stay warm either. In spring. The lakes provide fresh water, but that's it. And that division of ten thousand men is scattered across multiple islands, inviting defeat in detail as a much smaller force goes from island to island.

They get murdered by 105mm naval artillery, who get to test new artillery techniques, then we land a battalion of infantry to pick up PoWs.
 
Or we could just leave them there for about a couple years, let them wither with the occasional bombardment before attacking in force.

Hmmm...
Slight off-topic question here: how old is General Ron Burns? Was he in the Army before or after the debt crisis caused the U.S. to be expelled from NATO in 2019? Was he transferred from a different unit before joining the 1-16th Infantry?

I ask because if he joined just before the Collapse, he would still be in his sixties. If he was in Afghanistan in a different unit, he'd be in his seventies.

If he's been with the 1-16th since its last deployment to Afghanistan in 2011, he's in his eighties.

Man doesn't have long.
 
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The Commonwealth Postal Service thanks Victoria for it's contributions to the spread of mail and revivalism across the Midwest and down the Mississipi.

Experienced prop pilots, not jet pilots.
There's actually a significant difference, or so I'm told. Can't just swap one set out for another.

We do want to conserve them, but we shouldn't be expecting significant aerial losses here from Vics whose supply issues are beginning to bite. They just lost acces to what stores are left in Toledo.
There are differences between prop and jet yes. But there's a reason why the USAF trains pilots in prop planes like Diamond DA20s before they put them on jet trainers.

Losing more of our limited pilot supply when we don't have a training program up and running is not a good idea. Especially with how many pilots we've lost already.

Iirc when a unit suffers 30% casualties the unit is considered combat ineffective.

Our pilots watched a lot of their friends die or come back mangled.

They need rest to recover.
 
Here's another omake. Again, recommend any edits...
___

Another Night on the Raisin Line

===

From the Diary of Corporal Billy Sims…​

Monroe, Michigan
April(?) 3, 2075

I woke up tonight to someone screaming.

I've been getting rather good at identifying screams lately. It's a common phenomenon in the few weeks we've been dug in along the Raisin. There are a whole bunch of causes. Some of them are even from actual injuries. A chunk of shrapnel lodged in a man's gut. A commie bullet in the shoulder fired from across the river. Twice it was a branch lodged in someone's back, blown off one of the few remaining trees in this stretch of what used to be a park.

And once in a while, it's from an artillery shell that somehow managed to at just the right spot to make sure the poor sons of bitches live for a few minutes more. McCroskey found that out the hard way. Poor kid shrieked soprano for a full six minutes straight as his stomach fell out from under him.

But other times, it's from the kids who finally can't take it anymore. The sobs of some poor schmuck who lost three friends in a single day to machine gun fire. The screeches of a guy who couldn't wake himself up from a new night terror. The cries of yet another poor soul as Chicago's heavy artillery lands in another ear-splitting roar and fractures the last of their sanity, waking the entire squad before some CMC jackoff put a bullet in them.

So, when this new one came just after midnight, my brain woke up before the rest of me did.

It was plainly from someone in pain, not terror. It was also too sharp and quick, which means its owner wasn't at death's door just yet. It was also too coherent, and judging from the pitch, it sounded more like someone burned their hand than got shot.

I opened one eye to see Plum in a frenzy. A rat the size of a tabby cat hung off his cheek, its teeth clamped shut around what it thought was its next meal.

I shit you not. The fucker was about two feet long with a tail as long my rifle.

Staudinger and Drummer were already on top of him when I yanked out my bayonet and rammed the blade down that rodent's center mass, the fucking carrion-feeder letting out a screechy death rattle through its teeth. Plum wouldn't stop yelling for us to get the fucking rat off his face. It wasn't until I finally used to bayonet to chop off the rat's snout that Doc was finally able to start pulling its teeth off Plum.

Sergeant Montfort came over later and got a good look at our rat, which excused us from having to explain anything. I tossed its corpse over the top of the trench. The other rats can have it.

So that's another scream for me to recognize – hungry rat bite. Fan-fucking-tastic.

Maybe I should sleep with something on my face tonight.

Apparently, I need to petition SV staff for a horror like.
 
As an aside, the Victorian forces on the islands are doomed, and the supplies honestly do very little to change that situation. They islands are all flat as boards, and nearly as small. They have no place to hide, and no chance of being relieved, so we can just park our artillery out of their range and pound the islands into fields of mud. The best case is they survive in some bunkers and slowly starve to death, because there's just no way they've constructed defenses that are both strong enough to hold up to our artillery and hold enough supplies to last them months and hold the soldiers that need those supplies.

And in that kind of situation, most of their supplies are probably useless anyway. Who cares if they have a small mountain of bullets and mortar shells? We're never going to get in range for either, because we can use the following method:
  1. Demand their surrender, then if they refuse, continue.
  2. Set up any artillery that outranges their mortars, and train it on the island the Victorians are camped on.
  3. If we have incendiary shells, we rake the island with them to remove groundcover and destroy supplies.
  4. Methodically blast every square foot of the island flat with our artillery. Any unsecured supplies will be gone at this point.
  5. Target Victorian defensive installations with sustained fire. Make it clear we know where they are and can hit them hard.
  6. Offer surrender again.
  7. If they still refuse, pound them until the fortifications fall apart.
  8. Send in troops to mop up and deal with any survivors. Again, accept any surrenders.
They can't maneuver, they can't escape, they can't even shoot back. It'll be utter hell for the Victorians, and I expect that their morale will shatter long before we get to the final step.
 
So, in Discord, I started idly musing about the island-hopping you'll need to do to clear out the Lake Erie Islands, and that kinda spiraled into a detailed analysis. I now bring it here to you, with editing and cleanup.

Y'know, looking at the map, it's kinda funny how many tiny islands there are in the Lake Erie Islands. Some don't even sit above water all the time. And every single one that does sit above water all the time, the Vicks would have men and mortars on. This is due to their general anti-navy strategy of, "just shoot them from the shoreline," which works so fucking well when you have 4-ish-mile-ranged mortars and the enemy has 105mm howitzers. So I'm looking at how a theoretical island-hopping campaign to clear these islands would go, and it is amazing just how many of those islands would have the answer, "Level it with artillery."

Like, looking around:

West Sister Island: completely forested, nearest to Toledo. Less than a square mile. Flattened.

Middle Sister Island: closest to Detroit, completely forested. Even smaller than West Sister. Flattened.

North Harbor Island: barely exists. East of North Sister. Has a house or two. Flattened.

East Sister Island: thinly forested, within visual range of North Harbor Island's fate (three thousand feet or so south, close enough that they'd probably feel shockwaves and hear screams). Subsequently, joins it.

Hen Island: like a thousand square feet with trees southwest of East Sister. A few houses. Flattened.

Chick Island and Little Chicken Island: Google Maps shows them submerged, no Victorian presence. South and to either side of Hen Island. Even if they were consistently above water, they'd be so tiny that you wouldn't even be flattening them, you'd be sinking them.

Big Chicken Island: a sandbar, just southwest of Chick Island. Miserable to be stuck on, but stuck they would be, unless they want to swim a mile to North Bass Island under enemy guns. Tiny. Flattened. Realistically, sunk.

Rattlesnake, Green, Sugar, Starve, Ballast Islands: within visual range of the Bass Islands, which themselves are off the southern Lake shore. Garrisons would probably abandon guns and swim. Either that or they didn't fucking bother. That said, if those five islands host anybody: flattened. In some cases, sunk.

Bass Islands: large enough that there would probably be a significant presence, and three of them. There is likely to be measurable resistance. A fair amount of entrenchment time means that there probably would be survivors from bombardment, giving the marines their first work to be done (these islands are pretty strategically significant, I want to reemphasize, and you don't want to utterly destroy them all). That said, the largest can't be more than three miles square, and Victorians don't even deploy with shovels or helmets, let alone flak armor or proper entrenching tools. There would not be many survivors. Not too hard a fight, especially given that they have absolutely no response to your artillery.

Kelleys [sic] Island: about Middle Bass and South Bass Island put together in terms of land area. It is east of them. This one is likely a harder fight than all the Bass Islands put together, because economy of scale absolutely goes to work on this sort of thing.

Middle Island: minuscule, but fills in the gaps between the largest islands and ensures visual-range bombardment on anything passing through. The keypoint making threading the needle through these islands active suicide. Gets a bombardment to wreck heavy equipment, but the strategic value means that the Navy may actually consider finishing things with mortar or autocannon fire, or even a marine landing. Depends on how much they value it; after all, they have proper BVR artillery doctrine. That said, it would likely be preserved simply for its value in deploying land-based artillery in support of the assault on...

Pelee Island: as some in Discord noted, the big one, much larger than the infamous Peleliu. I don't need to tell people how hard a fight that one was. While there was an active farming community, it was evacuated since you were never going to defend the islands. The vast majority of the Vicks will be here, and they will chow right through any food left behind. Some farming equipment was doubtless left, so the Vicks here will have the best trenches of any islands, such as that's worth. Beaches aren't great, water's shallow, dock's tiny and hasn't exactly been seeing much traffic over the last few decades, so that makes things harder on you. Terrain is completely flat. Not a lot of cover from bombardment, so you could suppress the hell out of it and wreak horrid casualties. There is one huge saving grace to your forces here: from Bass Islands and little Middle Island, all of Pelee is within range of land-based 105+mm artillery, including your 155mm guns. Every single active tube of that size and above in your army can contribute direct fire support to any landing. In fact, you could even stick mortar batteries on Middle Island and get effective fire support on the southern bits. The plan with Pelee will certainly be to focus every big gun you have on it and make it rain. It'll still be the hardest fight, because wow that's big and there'll be a lot of men, but you're going to have so much boom making it impossible for any Victorian soldier to so much as twitch.



And also, uh, vote's open!
 
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[X] Plan Reconciliation and Recuperation
-[X] Toledo's aid is welcome. They have made mistakes, but they would not be the first to ally with or abet the Victorians out of fear. After all, had you not acted as swiftly as you did, Detroit would currently be an enemy stronghold. You will accept Toledo's aid. They can find their redemption in the thickest and hardest parts of the battle.
-[X] No. Your pilots have been through enough, and you need every bit of expert knowledge left to rebuild your air force. The Victorians may only have man-portable SAM systems, but you are unwilling to take the risk.
 
[X] Plan Reconciliation and Recuperation
-[X] Toledo's aid is welcome. They have made mistakes, but they would not be the first to ally with or abet the Victorians out of fear. After all, had you not acted as swiftly as you did, Detroit would currently be an enemy stronghold. You will accept Toledo's aid. They can find their redemption in the thickest and hardest parts of the battle.
-[X] No. Your pilots have been through enough, and you need every bit of expert knowledge left to rebuild your air force. The Victorians may only have man-portable SAM systems, but you are unwilling to take the risk.
 
[x] Plan Reconciliation and Recuperation
-[x] Toledo's aid is welcome. They have made mistakes, but they would not be the first to ally with or abet the Victorians out of fear. After all, had you not acted as swiftly as you did, Detroit would currently be an enemy stronghold. You will accept Toledo's aid. They can find their redemption in the thickest and hardest parts of the battle.
-[x] No. Your pilots have been through enough, and you need every bit of expert knowledge left to rebuild your air force. The Victorians may only have man-portable SAM systems, but you are unwilling to take the risk.

Ninjas!
 
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[X] Plan Reconciliation and Recuperation
-[X] Toledo's aid is welcome. They have made mistakes, but they would not be the first to ally with or abet the Victorians out of fear. After all, had you not acted as swiftly as you did, Detroit would currently be an enemy stronghold. You will accept Toledo's aid. They can find their redemption in the thickest and hardest parts of the battle.
-[X] No. Your pilots have been through enough, and you need every bit of expert knowledge left to rebuild your air force. The Victorians may only have man-portable SAM systems, but you are unwilling to take the risk.

[X] Plan Reconciliation, Recuperation, and Compensation
 
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[X] Plan Reconciliation and Recuperation
-[X] Toledo's aid is welcome. They have made mistakes, but they would not be the first to ally with or abet the Victorians out of fear. After all, had you not acted as swiftly as you did, Detroit would currently be an enemy stronghold. You will accept Toledo's aid. They can find their redemption in the thickest and hardest parts of the battle.
-[X] No. Your pilots have been through enough, and you need every bit of expert knowledge left to rebuild your air force. The Victorians may only have man-portable SAM systems, but you are unwilling to take the risk.
 
[X] Plan Three Birds, Two Shells
-[X] We will defer to the decision of the Detroit City Council on the matter of Toledo's aid; we are not acting solely for the Commonwealth but also as allies of the City of Detroit against hostile aggression. That being said, with the recent windfall of military surplus seized from Victorian lake vessels, we intend to lobby for the Detroit City Council to accept Toledo's generous offer.
-[X] No. Your pilots have been through enough, and you need every bit of expert knowledge left to rebuild your air force. The Victorians may only have man-portable SAM systems, but you are unwilling to take the risk.

@PoptartProdigy, is this an acceptable variant of @clockworkchaos' proposed write-in?
 
[X] Plan Reconciliation and Recuperation
-[X] Toledo's aid is welcome. They have made mistakes, but they would not be the first to ally with or abet the Victorians out of fear. After all, had you not acted as swiftly as you did, Detroit would currently be an enemy stronghold. You will accept Toledo's aid. They can find their redemption in the thickest and hardest parts of the battle.
-[X] No. Your pilots have been through enough, and you need every bit of expert knowledge left to rebuild your air force. The Victorians may only have man-portable SAM systems, but you are unwilling to take the risk.
 
[X] Plan Three Birds, Two Shells
-[X] We will defer to the decision of the Detroit City Council on the matter of Toledo's aid; we are not acting solely for the Commonwealth but also as allies of the City of Detroit against hostile aggression. That being said, with the recent windfall of military surplus seized from Victorian lake vessels, we intend to lobby for the Detroit City Council to accept Toledo's generous offer.
-[X] No. Your pilots have been through enough, and you need every bit of expert knowledge left to rebuild your air force. The Victorians may only have man-portable SAM systems, but you are unwilling to take the risk.

@PoptartProdigy, is this an acceptable variant of @clockworkchaos' proposed write-in?
That'll work.
 
[X] Plan Reconciliation and Recuperation
-[X] Toledo's aid is welcome. They have made mistakes, but they would not be the first to ally with or abet the Victorians out of fear. After all, had you not acted as swiftly as you did, Detroit would currently be an enemy stronghold. You will accept Toledo's aid. They can find their redemption in the thickest and hardest parts of the battle.
-[X] No. Your pilots have been through enough, and you need every bit of expert knowledge left to rebuild your air force. The Victorians may only have man-portable SAM systems, but you are unwilling to take the risk.
 
I'm moderately opposed to sending in air support, because we need all the trained pilots we have, to train the next group. Especially if we can get a decent number of the F-16Vs from Toledo.
Toledo can't operate them.
Theyll want to keep some of the Cessna knockoffs, but the F16s will get traded away to us for food guarantees. Victorian foraging in spring as well as war disruption to agriculture means that without outside aid, there'll be famine by autumn or earlier.


VOTE
[X]Plan Sticking The Boot In
-[x] Toledo's aid is welcome. They have made mistakes, but they would not be the first to ally with or abet the Victorians out of fear. After all, had you not acted as swiftly as you did, Detroit would currently be an enemy stronghold. You will accept Toledo's aid. They can find their redemption in the thickest and hardest parts of the battle.
-[x] Yes. Your pilots have fought in counter-insurgency operations for literal decades. They have a lot of institutional expertise and knowledge, and have dealt with anti-aircraft weapons before. Their aid will be invaluable, and you trust them. A twenty-five plane air wing is better than nothing.

[X] Plan Reconciliation and Recuperation
-[X] Toledo's aid is welcome. They have made mistakes, but they would not be the first to ally with or abet the Victorians out of fear. After all, had you not acted as swiftly as you did, Detroit would currently be an enemy stronghold. You will accept Toledo's aid. They can find their redemption in the thickest and hardest parts of the battle.
-[X] No. Your pilots have been through enough, and you need every bit of expert knowledge left to rebuild your air force. The Victorians may only have man-portable SAM systems, but you are unwilling to take the risk.
 
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[X] Plan Three Birds, Two Shells
-[X] We will defer to the decision of the Detroit City Council on the matter of Toledo's aid; we are not acting solely for the Commonwealth but also as allies of the City of Detroit against hostile aggression. That being said, with the recent windfall of military surplus seized from Victorian lake vessels, we intend to lobby for the Detroit City Council to accept Toledo's generous offer.
-[X] No. Your pilots have been through enough, and you need every bit of expert knowledge left to rebuild your air force. The Victorians may only have man-portable SAM systems, but you are unwilling to take the risk.
 
[X] Plan Reconciliation and Recuperation
-[X] Toledo's aid is welcome. They have made mistakes, but they would not be the first to ally with or abet the Victorians out of fear. After all, had you not acted as swiftly as you did, Detroit would currently be an enemy stronghold. You will accept Toledo's aid. They can find their redemption in the thickest and hardest parts of the battle.
-[X] No. Your pilots have been through enough, and you need every bit of expert knowledge left to rebuild your air force. The Victorians may only have man-portable SAM systems, but you are unwilling to take the risk.
 
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