It's precisely because she is considering flipping that she is acting impulsively, she is frightened for for her safety but of staining her House's reputation forevermore, of proving herself as unworthy of her position as her detractors claimed. Of course from any pragmatic perspective that is meaningless, history is written by the winners and all, but she is an idealist who left many of the practical dealings to her mother so far.
@DragonParadox, I don't suppose inviting her for a brief visit to our realm so she can form her opinions with her own eyes would be of any help? If she's on the precipice, then seeing our city prosper in front of her and talking to some former Westerosi should help quite a bit.
 
@DragonParadox it looks like the previous threadmark got copied over with the interlude.

Don't have too much to say on the vote but it does seem like her brother? made his bed by attacking our irregular forces. And the mention of taking care of real bandits makes sense.
 
@DragonParadox, I don't suppose inviting her for a brief visit to our realm so she can form her opinions with her own eyes would be of any help? If she's on the precipice, then seeing our city prosper in front of her and talking to some former Westerosi should help quite a bit.

You already sold her on the prosperity pretty well, what you need to sell her on now is that she can swear to Viserys with grace and honor.
 
You already sold her on the prosperity pretty well, what you need to sell her on now is that she can swear to Viserys with grace and honor.
Hmmm... @Crake, in that case maybe we should talk about how while the bloodshed is indeed regrettable and we're doing everything in our power to avoid it, we will bring peace and order to our lands. Even now we've rid the Stormlands of the bandits flying our banner.
 
I am surprised that the lads didn't try to take the cousin as hostage. Even during the 100 years war nobles usually were taken hostage rather than killed.
 
I am surprised that the lads didn't try to take the cousin as hostage. Even during the 100 years war nobles usually were taken hostage rather than killed.
They probably didn't have the chance. It's easy for us, we're powerful enough to pluck an officer right out of battle, but the Lads were attacked while crossing a river. They likely were just trying their best to survive and run away.
 
You already sold her on the prosperity pretty well, what you need to sell her on now is that she can swear to Viserys with grace and honor.
Obviously, we have a reputation that is objectively pretty good for a Dread Sorcerer Extraordinaire.

What facts do nobles who are not irreversibly our enemies know about Viserys from spycraft and hearsay?

1. Rules justly and effectively.
2. Freed the slaves.
3. Honors guest right and other oaths highly, very much so.
4. Surprisingly merciful and rational. You know, considering her family broke their oaths to his and he's ready to unconditionally clean that slate.
5. Killer of literal nightmares from beyond the skeins of reality.

You have to reach to find PUBLICALLY known faults. All of our baggage is mostly secret or unverifiable.
 
They probably didn't have the chance. It's easy for us, we're powerful enough to pluck an officer right out of battle, but the Lads were attacked while crossing a river. They likely were just trying their best to survive and run away.

Makes sense. Should we have the lads try and take a castle before the Invasion? Like a month before so that when the confilct heats up and enemy forces raise their banners we can launch multiple surgical strikes towards their now undefended keeps?
 
Obviously, we have a reputation that is objectively pretty good for a Dread Sorcerer Extraordinaire.

What facts do nobles who are not irreversibly our enemies know about Viserys from spycraft and hearsay?

1. Rules justly and effectively.
2. Freed the slaves.
3. Honors guest right and other oaths highly, very much so.
4. Surprisingly merciful and rational. You know, considering her family broke their oaths to his and he's ready to unconditionally clean that slate.
5. Killer of literal nightmares from beyond the skeins of reality.

You have to reach to find PUBLICALLY known faults. All of our baggage is mostly secret or unverifiable.

All fair points and the reason lady Shyra is seriously considering flipping (alongside the ridiculous charisma), but she is concerned about being on the same side as bandits that killed her cousin. Having a very black and white view of what a bandit is does not help.
 
All fair points and the reason lady Shyra is seriously considering flipping (alongside the ridiculous charisma), but she is concerned about being on the same side as bandits that killed her cousin. Having a very black and white view of what a bandit is does not help.
Would explaining the difference between the Lads and the actual bandits lurking in the Stormlands be helpful at all? Because Benjicot has been very strict in what his men are allowed to do. I'm guessing Shyra's black-and-white view of bandits comes from her personal experience with the Stormlander bandits.
 
Would explaining the difference between the Lads and the actual bandits lurking in the Stormlands be helpful at all? Because Benjicot has been very strict in what his men are allowed to do. I'm guessing Shyra's black-and-white view of bandits comes from her personal experience with the Stormlander bandits.

Probably, it would still be a case of Viserys fighting an undeclared war, but then you could point out that Robert did unceremoniously throw the royal fleet at Viserys.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jul 11, 2019 at 1:42 PM, finished with 103 posts and 16 votes.

  • [X] "My lady, what do you think it is that I am doing right now?"
    -[X] "When time permits between managing one crisis or another, I make an effort to visit the Lords and Ladies of Westeros, those who I believe may be amenable to my cause. I do not want a war to be fought in this land, my lady, one that will see lords and small folk slaughtered in droves."
    --[X] "Securing a victory through diplomacy and patience is my goal, with as little life lost in the transition as possible. I cannot help what every misguided bandit or rebel does in my name in the meantime, no more than I blame you for allowing the Usurper to send his fleets to destroy my home."
    [X] Explain to Lady Shyra the difference between the Lads and the bandits in the Stormlands with whom she's more familiar. Benjicot is very strict in what his men do. While it was unfortunate that her cousin died in fighting them, the Lads were defending themselves while crossing a river.
    -[X] Is there an undeclared war being fought? Yes. But we weren't the ones who started it, with Robert unceremoniously throwing his fleet at us. And more to the point we're trying to make this as bloodless as we possibly can.
    -[X] And regarding the bandits in the Stormlands, the second we were alerted to what they were doing, we took care of them. They won't be troubling these lands any longer.
    -[X] We will bring peace and order to these lands, preferably with as little loss of life as we can manage. We came to Shyra because we want her help in doing so. //Appealing to her idealism.
 
[X] Explain to Lady Shyra the difference between the Lads and the bandits in the Stormlands with whom she's more familiar. Benjicot is very strict in what his men do. While it was unfortunate that her cousin died in fighting them, the Lads were defending themselves while crossing a river.
-[X] Is there an undeclared war being fought? Yes. But we weren't the ones who started it, with Robert unceremoniously throwing his fleet at us. And more to the point we're trying to make this as bloodless as we possibly can.
-[X] And regarding the bandits in the Stormlands, the second we were alerted to what they were doing, we took care of them. They won't be troubling these lands any longer.
-[X] We will bring peace and order to these lands, preferably with as little loss of life as we can manage. We came to Shyra because we want her help in doing so. //Appealing to her idealism.

I hope that does it.
 
That's better than @Goldfish's vote.

It's not so much that your plan was bad, @Goldfish, just that I was commenting under the assumption that she was just being Stormlander Tier stubborn.

Turns out she's just scared and insecure, which can in fact be dealt with with calm rationality and reassurances.

But they have to take the right tack.
 
Is it really undeclared? I figured it's more of a private war...
It's kind of undeclared.

That said @Crake I fully expect an over-the-top scheme to announce when we're riding in for conquest. Maybe Raven Constructs sent to every single lord in Westeros, with Hardened Pamphlets detailing our declaration. And all the while entire Legions are being deployed one after the other.
 
[X] Duesal

Is it really undeclared? I figured it's more of a private war...

It basically is.

We were told that if Robert had declared official for-real war, he would, laugh out loud, cause half his vassals to rebel against him and start a civil war.

Before he wouldn't have minded that much, I think, but Jon Arryn HATES WAR. He was hoping to avoid a For Real civil war at all costs, and maybe angling to win a diplomatic victory (not so much toward Viserys, as trying to secure the loyalty of the realm), but whatever intrigues he was playing at were stymied by Tywin and his murderboner. And Robert clearly favoring Tywin's murderboner foreign policy.
 
It's kind of undeclared.

That said @Crake I fully expect an over-the-top scheme to announce when we're riding in for conquest. Maybe Raven Constructs sent to every single lord in Westeros, with Hardened Pamphlets detailing our declaration. And all the while entire Legions are being deployed one after the other.

I actually have a DETAILED one planned out and I posted it here months ago. It was EPIC in how audacious and thorough it was.
 
Canon Omake: The story of Falabix the golden dragon, Part IV
The story of Falabix the golden dragon.

chapter 4.

The world felt like it was shaking. Falabix woke up, and as he opened his eyes he saw that the tunnel was almost entirely dark. Something was blocking the entrance.

Wary of whatever was out there, but equally uneasy about whether the shaking would collapse the tunnel Falabix crept forward. As he got closer he could see that what was blocking the tunnel was a tremendous whiskered snout.

Falabix knew that if he didn't want his plan to kill the great beast squatting in his den to end before it started, he would have to kill or drive off this lesser beast before it could destroy his trap. So Falabix did the logical thing and set fire to its whiskers.

The beast gave a squeak and pulled back. Falabix followed it out knowing even with his wing unable to bear his weight he would have a better chance out in the open.

As Falabix escaped he saw the beast frantically using its paw to put out its burning whiskers. Knowing that he had to hit it while it was distracted he charged it.

Falabix hit it right in the stomach, but as sharp as his claws were they were too small to inflict more than lightly bleeding scratches. The beast reacted to what little damage Falabix did to it and swatted at him with a paw.

Falabix managed to dodge barely turning it into a glancing blow. One that nevertheless harshly launched Falabix away from the beast.

Falabix soared sideways though the air, and even though his left wing burned he forced himself to spread his wings to slow his fall.

Falabix wing was screaming in agony but he managed to land safely. Knowing that to be distracted by pain in a fight meant death Falabix immediately looked for the beast again. Turning his head he saw it, it seemed to have managed to put out the fire and was about to pounce.

Falabix didn't think he could escape from the beast, so as it pounced Falabix did as well. Making it so instead of the Beasts paws hitting Falabix he was under its belly.

Falabix located the scratches he had inflicted, and breathed fire on them causing the beast to squeak in pain. This however turned out not to have been Falabix best plan as the beast pressed its belly to the ground to put the fire out.

Luckily the ruined anthill wasn't exactly even ground. So Falabix only got slightly squished, but the pressure made his already damaged wing feel even worse.

Once the beast had put the fire out it had apparently had enough. Since instead of attacking Falabix again it began to flee, but Falabix wasn't about to let a beast that had so humiliated him live. So as the beast fled Falabix followed, waiting for an opportunity for revenge.

As Falabix shadowed the beast it found and ate various grains, all the while it was ever careful of the sky. Even with how angry Falabix was with the beast he could understand it. Birds were vicious monsters that would eat you given half a chance.

At last as the sky grew darker the Beast crawled down into a hole in the ground. Falabix waited a while to give the beast time to fall asleep, and then he followed it. Being especially careful to make no noises.

The hole led to a small cave. Big enough to fit maybe 5 beasts like the one sleeping there, seeing that there was no other exits Falabix decided that the best way to kill the beast would be by choking it with a fire. So he went back out again, and began to fill the entrance with kindling.

Once Falabix had gathered enough kindling to start a decent fire he exhaled upon it. At first it seemed to work, but the fire collapsed down the hole, setting fire to the beast and waking it up.

The fire and smoke hurt it greatly but it managed to escape, and when it saw Falabix it recognized him. Remembering that he had set fire to it earlier it attacked.

Weak and scared as it was it was hesitant, so Falabix decided that the best tactic would be to wait for it to collapse while dodging it attacks repeatedly. Unfortunately Falabix, while not as damaged as the beast was still hurt and exhausted. So he found that wasn't so easily done.

Falabix was barely managing to keep ahead of the beast sometime by inches, but he was tiring and he was no longer sure he would outlast the beast. So when the beast tried to bodyslam Falabix again, he took the chance to jump on its back and used his claws to inflict bleeding scratches.

The beast retaliated by rolling over forcing Falabix to jump from its back, and then as Falabix was in the air its tail was coming right at him. Once again forcing Falabix to use his wings despite the pain it brought him.

Falabix landed but by now the pain and exhaustion was making him see spots. He could just barely make out the beast dragging itself towards him, apparently having lost the ability to properly stand.

Falabix knew that this was it. The last clash between him and this beast. They were both exhausted and beaten. Neither of them having the power for more than one last attack, and while he might be able to flee he couldn't guarantee he would actually get away. If he was to risk death, then by all elder dragons he wasn't going to face it with his tail between his legs.

So Falabix tried his best to focus on the beast one last time. It was getting blurry but he could see it steadily coming closer, and then suddenly it found the strength to stand on its legs for one last jump.

Compared to how it had jumped earlier this was at best pathetic, maybe a fifth the power of a normal jump for it, but Falabix wasn't feeling much better.

Nevertheless Falabix knew that this was his last chance, and so just as the beast was committed to the jump, Falabix forced himself to flap his wings one last time. Propelling him right at the eyes of the beast.

He landed with a wet sound as his claws tore the beasts eyes apart. It gave one last squeak of agonized despair and then it stopped breathing and collapsed.

Falabix was feeling ready to collapse himself. He hurt as he never in his young life had experienced, but peculiarly one feeling was stronger than his tiredness. Falabix felt ravenously hungry.

He began to feast on the beast. First he ate the eyeballs and then he got started on the flesh. His hunger never sated he just kept eating. He ate half the beast and his hunger was barely diminished, but the slight lessening in its urgency finally allowed the exhaustion to become dominant, and so he collapsed into sleep mid bite.
 
Back
Top