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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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DragonParadox said:
  1. They are, the cousin she is talking about is her mother's nephew.
  2. You can of course lie about it, though the lie might not stand up for long post Conquest.
  3. Ser Keath caught up to the Lads as they were resupplying attacked them attacked them with his own troops and died.
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I think then that our lady shyra is being a bit blinded by emotion here....

1) If she doesn't know, then accusing a Dread Sorcerer-King is a bad idea. People have been executed for less, and her position is not strong enough to guarantee her safety. Why is she so confident?

2) What would she actually have us do? The only way for the bandits to stop are if we:
  • Invade and get them jobs/lands/whatever to satisfy them, where people will die
  • Order the to cease in the name of the King, which the bandits will refuse and start attacking our loyalist houses as well: people will die
  • Robert can deal with the bandits like we very successfully dealt with his fleet. But he hasn't. Why isn't she angry at him?
3) And again, if she was so sure the Lads are 'ours', why not then caution her cousin against attacking? If he suspected then attacked anyway, he is an idiot of the first order.

Ultimately, it comes down to this. She rebelled against us. Her life and the lives of all her family are forfeit. If she didn't want people to die, she could have stayed loyal or at least neutral, in which case I would be in a much better position to take her seriously.

Edit: And I know Viserys isn't a believer in 'The sins of the father' but still, every previous rebellion like this comes with risks, and being a staunch Baratheon supporter was bound to draw our ire. What leverage does she have to be angry, leaving aside emotional attachment?

Wasn't she trained to play politics?
 
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Supermushu said:
I think then that our lady shyra is being a bit blinded by emotion here....

1) If she doesn't know, then accusing a Dread Sorcerer-King is a bad idea. People have been executed for less, and her position is not strong enough to guarantee her safety. Why is she so confident?

2) What would she actually have us do? The only way for the bandits to stop are if we:
  • Invade and get them jobs/lands/whatever to satisfy them, where people will die
  • Order the to cease in the name of the King, which the bandits will refuse and start attacking our loyalist houses as well: people will die
  • Robert can deal with the bandits like we very successfully dealt with his fleet. But he hasn't. Why isn't she angry at him?
3) And again, if she was so sure the Lads are 'ours', why not then caution her cousin against attacking?

Ultimately, it comes down to this. She rebelled against us. Her life and the lives of all her family are forfeit. If she didn't want people to die, she could have stayed loyal or at least neutral, in which case I would be in a much better position to take her seriously.
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You guys can take that position of course, though given that it's a threat it would be a hard turn from your strategy so far.
 
DragonParadox said:
You guys can take that position of course, though given that it's a threat it would be a hard turn from your strategy so far.
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Less of a threat.... more of a statement.

What is Viserys' opinion on why she is so willing to mouth off to his face? Why is she so confident?

This especially if she thinks that he would sink low enough to use brigands, why wouldn't he, say, use the opportunity to kill her, slag the castle and demonstrate his power by killing off one of Roberts' more powerful supporters?

Her actions rely on our 'good nature' to accept that criticism without reprisal, and yet she demeans us as a brute and murderer?

What sort of doublethink is this?
 
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Preliminary plan.

[X] "My lady, what do you think it is that I am doing right now? I did not intrude upon your life for the sake of relieving my boredom."
-[X] "My Companions and I have fought battles throughout Westeros, Essos, and even further afield, against monsters you can scarcely imagine, to prevent one catastrophe after another. That you have not heard of these battles only speaks to our continued success. I have not slept more than two hours in a night for years. We have been too busy protecting everyone from nightmares made flesh to devote our full attention to the issue of retaking the Iron Throne."
--[X] "But when time permits between crises, as it has now, I make an effort to visit the Lords and Ladies of Westeros, those who I believe may be amenable to my cause. I do not want a war to be fought in this land, my lady, one that will see lords and small folk slaughtered in droves. I know it is cold comfort for those who lose loved ones in the meantime, but I must look toward the future. It does no one any favors if my ascent to the throne requires me to wade through a lake of spilled blood."
---[X] "Securing a victory through diplomacy and patience is my goal, with as little life lost in the transition as possible. Or would you rather I land my Legions on Westerosi shorea, tens of thousands of trained warriors, each armed and armored to match any knight of this land, and set them upon all who do not immediately raise the Dragon Banner?"
 
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Supermushu said:
Less of a threat.... more of a statement.

What is Viserys' opinion on why she is so willing to mouth off to his face? Why is she so confident?

This especially if she thinks that he would sink low enough to use brigands, why wouldn't he, say, use the opportunity to kill her, slag the castle and demonstrate his power by killing off one of Roberts' more powerful supporters?

Her actions rely on our 'good nature' to accept that criticism without reprisal, and yet she demeans us as a brute and murderer?

What sort of doublethink is this?
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Keep in mind guest right is sacred, dealing with bandits is a good bit more common in Westeros than breaking the law of hospitality.
 
DragonParadox said:
Keep in mind guest right is sacred, dealing with bandits is a good bit more common in Westeros than breaking the law of hospitality.
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That's.... you know what, I'll accept that. It doesn't mean we wouldn't just leave and come back tomorrow to burn 'em all, but that's just Shyra not seeing the bigger picture by all indications.

But wow, she is self centred. I'm pretty sure most Lords Paramount would just ignore her forever after she pulled a stunt like this, and Tywin would just arrange for 'brigands' to kill her too ASAP. Good thing Bobby B doesn't care I guess.

Nickan said:
[
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See, Nickan understands. He's composed his vote in the same way Shyra seems to think!
 
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People, Goldfish's vote is the opposite of Diplomacy. I will get out of work in 4 hours, and will write my own vote then.
 
Guys, another thing @DragonParadox took pains to point out, Shyra Errol is above all inexperienced. That's not a "women are ruled by emotion" issue, that's a "young people are impulsive" issue, and she's in the middle of a conversation with someone disarming who has been polite and respectful to her despite all of his power and influence and reputation.

Her mother, despite her hate for us, if she had been here, would have hushed her and excused the imposition for nearly offering what would ordinarily be deadly insult or at least a serious social gaffe. Because she's experienced in comparison in courtly matters.
 
@Goldfish The problem with your vote is that she is obviously not experienced enough to make the same estimations someone who's had major life experience and can see past the forest for the trees.

A fact about this character we know: She's been relying on her mother pretty heavily in matters of rule, we can assume not just counsel on how to deal with dragons, but pretty much basic House political stances, if only speaking a word to her about what tack to take beforehand, not necessarily having her present while making judgements.

Left to her own devices, that statement describes how she believes the world should work, that bad things shouldn't happen to her, and they keep happening and she can't do anything about it.

Basically: Offer her an olive branch. Describing the reasoning for inaction is fine, though threading the needle between Viserys' obvious resentment of the high expectations she places on him despite the fact that even showing up and being as diplomatic as he has is practically bending over backwards, despite the fact she has not sworn fealty that she, and let me point this out, owes him implicitly, will take some doing.

But that shouldn't be the meat of the vote, that's just offering excuses. Our objective? Secure her fealty and cooperation. The very essence of diplomacy is attempting to broker some kind of agreement (not necessarily compromise as you can use misdirection to great effect and achieve more than what you are outwardly bargaining for).
 
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Crake said:
@Goldfish The problem with your vote is that she is obviously not experienced enough to make the same estimations someone who's had major life experience and can see past the forest for the trees.

A fact about this character we know: She's been relying on her mother pretty heavily in matters of rule, we can assume not just counsel on how to deal with dragons, but pretty much basic House political stances, if only speaking a word to her about what tack to take beforehand, not necessarily having her present while making judgements.

Left to her own devices, that statement describes how she believes the world should work, that bad things shouldn't happen to her, and they keep happening and she can't do anything about it.

Basically: Offer her an olive branch. Describing the reasoning for inaction is fine, though threading the needle between Viserys' obvious resentment of the high expectations she places on him despite the fact that even showing up and being as diplomatic as he has is practically bending over backwards, despite the fact she has not sworn fealty that she, and let me point this out, owes him implicitly, will take some doing.

But that shouldn't be the meat of the vote, that's just offering excuses. Our objective? Secure her fealty and cooperation. The very essence of diplomacy is attempting to broker some kind of agreement (not necessarily compromise as you can use misdirection to great effect and achieve more than what you are outwardly bargaining for).
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I don't have time to make an alternate plan right now.
 
@Crake, @TalonofAnathrax, I snagged a few minutes between projects. How about this? Much of the same argument, I think, but with less passive aggressive guilt tripping.

[X] "My lady, what do you think it is that I am doing right now?"
-[X] "When time permits between managing one crisis or another, I make an effort to visit the Lords and Ladies of Westeros, those who I believe may be amenable to my cause. I do not want a war to be fought in this land, my lady, one that will see lords and small folk slaughtered in droves."
--[X] "Securing a victory through diplomacy and patience is my goal, with as little life lost in the transition as possible. I cannot help what every misguided bandit or rebel does in my name in the meantime, no more than I blame you for allowing the Usurper to send his fleets to destroy my home."
 
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I like that plan. Take my vote.

[X] Goldfish

By the way, I am currently an intern amidst public servants. Just got out of a two hour lunch break at a restaurant to celebrate someone's tiny promotion... It's every stereotype, but real ! (And yes, they all got paid for an hour while they were in fact eating)

We even get regularly taken out to lunch by rich people who want favours from the boss. Inviting just the boss would be rude, so it is customary to invite the entire urban planning department (currently 8 people for a town of 61 000 inhabitants).

I've been making excuses for those. They smell of corruption, and I don't actually want a real job here now that I've gotten a taste of it as an intern.
Eww, what a terrible atmosphere.


Trying the private sector as soon as I can get my foot in the door. And maybe I'll try different institutions before writing off the entire public sector ;)

Edit : I mean, objectively my internship is amazing and I should be very happy to have gotten it. It's just turned out not to be a great fit for me. I feel sleazy working here, and it's only been six weeks !
 
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Can we get some votes, y'all? If not for my plan, then one of your own?
 
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