Honestly you have a point. If this was just a -OH SON OF A BITCH. Right yeah, let's do that. Let's stop arguing the pure virtuous innocent maiden sent in here to negotiate because Lucan thought that that would make for an easier time negotiating. Which it almost did. Holy shit I'm a gullible idiot.
I know, right? All of this, all of it, happened because we believed what someone else said about the man. And we're still doing it. No, we need to fix this. it is time, once and for all, to look in the mirror and decide if we like what we see.
 
I'm not invested in either outcome. It's just painful to watch how the thread is desperately trying to have it's cake and eat it.
You can't both oppose them and be friends with them. You can't expect them to forgive and forget while you hold hostages and make demands while giving nothing in return.

The whole parley with Lucan is especially weird to watch, as the people arguing for it are both utterly convinced that it needs hostages to have Lucan abide by the terms of a parley, let alone the terms settled on there, but yet think this parley will achieve anything.
I never got that saying. Like i have to have cake to eat. If i dont have a cake how can i eat it.
 
...On the one hand, this is idealistic to the point of insanity. On the other hand, these people are insane.
Hmmm.
It will be over. Keep it to truth or not. It's also one of our end game goals for this war.

If we get her on board the make piece train we have essentially flipped one of the 7s chosen.

OK, it's really late for me too, but I'm going to try to formulate ans answer to this because you deserve it.
  1. The Lucan arc exists because I wanted to give you guys an enemy who was not an idiot or a monster, someone complex and thought-provoking like ASOIAF villains are supposed to be like. I tried very hard not to make a diabolus ex machina. To a degree it's an attempt to mirror Vierys and that includes the rumors maligning him.
  2. The mind blank thing was something that I never even realized most people thought differently of
I also thought mindblank worked like that, hell we took advantage of divination blocking working like that a couple of times our self.

Honestly you have a point. If this was just a -OH SON OF A BITCH. Right yeah, let's do that. Let's stop arguing the pure virtuous innocent maiden sent in here to negotiate because Lucan thought that that would make for an easier time negotiating. Which it almost did. Holy shit I'm a gullible idiot.

If we were just negotiating with Danelle and it was just a matter of what Danelle thought, than this almost wouldn't be an issue. Hell, she seems like the kind of person who would be willing to apologize for all that murder stuff the seven did originally. Lucan is the issue here, so let's stop framing the argument around convincing Danelle and start focusing on him.
Once again, I'll take Danelle even if we have to let Lucans people go. They are level 6 and 9, they aren't even good blood sacrifices.
 
Thoughts and suggestions?

[X] Plan "My Turn"

-[X] "Before this discussion progresses any further, Lady Danelle, let me make one thing clear. Your friends are free to go, either now if you wish it or released directly into your custody when we are finished here. Your friends were not my intended targets and I will not hold them hostage against your good behavior, or to leverage you into my service. With that said, I let you speak your mind and now I would appreciate it if you let me speak mine."

-[X] "I have all too often seen mages bound to service, not through oaths willingly given or loyalty earned, but through enchantment, curses and worse. Surely you are familiar with Tywin Lannisters' Golden Shields? I've yet to encounter one who was not magically bound to serve him, regardless of their willingness. The Citadel? They sent a spy to infiltrate my Scholarium, one who had been branded through magic such that he could not disobey the Maesters holding his leash on pain of death. So yes, when I heard rumors that Lucan practiced similar atrocities, I believed them. After all, the man had already made himself my enemy."
--[X] "Are you familiar with the Angels Lucan has Called into his service? If so, you might remember Baelor, once called the Blessed due to his overwhelming piety and faith in the Seven, but also my ancestor and a former King of Westeros. Baelor was not simply Called to serve. He was empowered far beyond the normal bounds of his fellows and given a Divine mission to kill me. Obviously, Baelor did not succeed in his mission, save in poisoning my opinion of your fellow Chosen."
--[X] "Another Angel in Lucan's service, Roland, with whom I spoke cordially shortly before the Conclave first convened, did not trust Lucan to meet with me and honor the terms of parlay when I asked if such was possible. What would you think then, were you in my boots?"
--[X] "So when I learned that mages in Lucan's service were here in Oldtown, I decided to take a chance, to risk the carefully cultivated persona I have used to great effect here in Westeros in order to learn what I believed was critical information. Were they, too, bound to serve yet another Westerosi master? Were they compelled to serve through fear or magic? If not, yet another false rumor would have been laid to rest, as have been many in these past days. If they were, I would have gladly freed them, as you must know there are few things I abhor more than slavery?"
---[X] "And if his mages were not coerced, but were in fact his companions, then that too could have been of use to me. Cold as it may seem, hostages might have allowed me to meet with the man and trust that he would honor a parlay, one that Roland the Angel didn't trust him to heed."
-[X] "Now it is obvious that the Conclave is lost to me, though I assure you my intentions were honorable, at least as I see them. If you are willing to speak further on this matter, there is much you need to know which I hoped to bring to the attention of the Faith using my disguise as Dywen."
--[X] "Although the timing is quite awful and you have little reason to trust my intentions, I would like to invite you to Sorcerer's Deep, along with any you wish to accompany you. Before you call a land Hell-on-Earth, you should take the opportunity to walk its streets, meets those who call it home, and learn what has truly passed to make it as it now is. Let us make something of this sad state of affairs. If we cannot be friends, I would at least hope for an understanding between us, one which benefits all and harms none, for I suspect many of our goals are one and the same, despite what otherwise sets us apart."
This ain't it chief, unless we release Lucan's hostages immediately as well.
 
It's not like it's that much of a position of strength, Lucan value the mages we have captured personally, but they are in no way particularly important to his organisation, being that the strongest of them is level 9, and we aren't currently in conflict with Danelle, which keeping her friend would cause, so all in all, keeping them hostage would cause a lot of anger, but wouldn't actually get us much leverage.
The fact that we have her friends is a source of leverage, whether we are in conflict with her or not. I'm totally willing to release her friends for free but not Lucan's for a verbal guarantee that she'll "petition the conclave".
 
I find the choices we can take from the last update to be a bit limited, to be honest. Danelle seems to be totally unwilling to compromise even though she is in a much weaker position. It appears that the only choices we have are:
A) Give her everything she wants and leave, basically invalidating everything we did in the last 10 or so updates or
B) Murder her.
You're making an ultimatum when there isn't one. We can just as well turn around strip our mask, gather everyone outside and make a huge show of it. Bare everything in the open and have a good old fashioned social slug match.
 
How strange, a doublepost.

You are missing so much of the nuance in the post by boiling it down to two key components, but yes, essentially the whole plot is engineered so that you have the chance to pick what kind of man you really are. Savior or Villain?

We can of course choose neither, release the hostages, and accept that while we won't make peace with inherently antithetical factions, neither are we some monster who doesn't have a heart. But that's beside the point, and not what the arc is written to do.
 
You are missing so much of the nuance in the post by boiling it down to two key components, but yes, essentially the whole plot is engineered so that you have the chance to pick what kind of man you really are. Savior or Villain?

We can of course choose neither, release the hostages, and accept that while we won't make peace with inherently antithetical factions, neither are we some monster who doesn't have a heart. But that's beside the point, and not what the arc is written to do.
By phrasing it that way, you really make me want to try it.
 
The fact that we have her friends is a source of leverage, whether we are in conflict with her or not. I'm totally willing to release her friends for free but not Lucan's for a verbal guarantee that she'll "petition the conclave".
Yeah but fact is, as you said we are ready to release her friend for free, and her friend is the only one of them actually important enough to be potential leverage, Lucan's mages are the equivalent of kidnapping the Windward society, we would be angry about it, but they wouldn't be important enough, we would even consider concessions for their safe return.
 
The Lucan arc exists because I wanted to give you guys an enemy who was not an idiot or a monster, someone complex and thought-provoking like ASOIAF villains are supposed to be like. I tried very hard not to make a diabolus ex machina. To a degree it's an attempt to mirror Vierys and that includes the rumors maligning him.

Sound interesting in theory.

In practice though, it just came off as really abrupt and irritating in this case. IMHO.
 
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[X]Goldfish

This is such a shitshow though Lucan suddenly becoming a reasonable man somehow was amusing at least.
 
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Take out the part about the Angel Parley or reword it, DP's said that the angel meant that Lucan probably wouldn't deign to meet with us, not that he wouldn't honor one if such a situation arose.
Well, that's not what we thought it meant.

Also I kind of want to vote goldfish's plan just because It's called "My Turn" and I just finished playing transistor last night.

That said, I think if we're feeling like brave bois a moral argument can be made for a reduction of the seven. If we can convince Danelle of that fact at least, or simply convince her that it's not an inherently immoral take, that gets us something.
If we do go that route though, I want to talk to Lucan. And I want to bring friends. Mainly because I want to see Dany shut someone up again.
 
[X]Goldfish
At least he's not bending over backward and acting like we live in ponyland.
We captured them with maybe an hour of planning, if we decide Lucan is indeed our enemy, recapturing them would be trivial, releasing them for goodwill, in hope of securing Danelle as an ally is not bending over backwards, it's giving up a minor advantage, for the chance of a major advantage down the line.
 
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