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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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TalonofAnathrax said:
@Snowfire why should they entertain our questioning if we aren't interesting, and are instead just asking for a veiled report ? We aren't the King, here.
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Um...we're asking for help. Like, these are relatively good people, and we're directly appealing to their sensibilities. We do not, in fact, need to be king to do that. This entire question in fact seems to completely miss the point of what we're asking, and how.
 
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Interlude CDLXVI: Of Pledges and Gifts
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    • Of Pledges and Gifts ​

    <Previous City of Brass Infiltration Next>

    Sixteenth Day of the Ninth Month 293 AC

    The Fury walked upon the burning stones of the City of Brass without fear, the hand upon the pummel of her sword there only to keep fools from crossing her path. She gazed upon the tarnished glories without wonder. She who had seen the black spires of Dis in all its glory. She who Fell in smoke and cinders from Timeless Grace. Yet Sarell the Twice Betrayer, sworn sword of the Dragon in the Deep, was not unmoved by the sight of the Bazaar of a Thousand Sins where it was said you could buy and sell a single life thrice over in a single breath. By the groaning of slaves mired in misery and the reek of old blood that clung to everything it was true. It was all askew and ill-fitting, like the rusted gears of some ancient engine of war that should have been melted down to slag long ago.

    Where the trembling mortals that huddled in the shop like mice hiding in the walls might regret the absence of the shadow of the Dragon's wings protecting them, she regretted laws that made sense, even if they were soft, a place where bribery was the exception and not the rule, and where rot did not run bone deep through the realm.

    It had started reasonably enough. They had a break-in by a crew of half starved thieves with little to lose in trying to snatch something from the most recent arcane merchant to arise on the edges of the great bazaar. The fools were dead. Yet now she had to carry a sack of heads through the scorching heat to be counted and stamped by some petty bureaucrat to verify that the killings had been lawful. A fact which any of the patrols of the Burning Dervishes could have established in a few moments, but that would have been too easy. It was humiliating to act in supplication as though the Sultan and his pitiful would-be worshipers were owed tribute of every life taken. She had been half-tempted to let the man Bronn do this, but he had partaken of just enough smoke and wine to make him less cautious, less attentive of the dangers of the City. Sarell would hate to deliver his head to Wisdom Malarys to restore, assuming they would even recover it.

    The privileges of age are few, its responsibilities legion... A smile brief and sharp has a thorn's bite flickered upon the face of the Fallen. There were not many words of wisdom she had kept from before she had chosen the hosts of Mammon over the idleness of Heaven, but that was one of them.

    Sarell stretched her wings slightly to dispel the familiar tension in her back, she had done worse errands than this in the service of her erstwhile lord and for less cause.

    If she had not stopped at that precise time, in that precise place, she might have missed it. A winged nightmare, its hooves and mane aflame, great tattered bat wings growing from its back, struggling against the chains by which a giant clumsily dragged it down a side street. The hell-steed would probably break loose eventually with the way the fool was handling it. The only question was how many it would have the chance to kill before it was itself slain. It had spirit if nothing else...

    Remembering the request Lady Drekelis had made of her before she left Sarell silently asked the steed: "If I buy and free you, will you serve willingly?"

    "You, Daughter of Darkness?"     The dread steed replied. "What need have you for my wings?"

    "Not I. A sorceress in a realm far from here, who desires to ride swiftly through the night wind, with company worthy of her time,"     Sarell replied.

    "A great sorceress?" came the grudging response.

    "One who has earned my respect," the words were boast and threat both, for Sarell knew well the way of those who ran across the black and twisting paths between the realms below.

    "Kill the fool and you have my pledge," came the answer heavy with bitterness and hate.

    "My oaths to my lord does not permit that I break the laws of this place save at his command. If you would come with me than I must buy you." Not wholly true of course. Sarell could think of many ways in which she might slay the giant and remain within the letter of her oaths, but she had no desire to go against her lord's interests. He would see this city fall and watching its walls crumble, its mockery of law undone, it would be worth inestimably more than the entertainment of one fool's death.

    "Then what do you offer me for my service, if the oaf is to live?" the nightmare called.

    "Life. Freedom..." The Fury found herself momentarily struggling for words. "Protection and recompense for true service."

    She had not expected the words to be enough for she knew well the boundless depths of hatred, but to her surprise the steed accepted with a bow of its coal-black head.

    OOC: My first time writing from the perspective of an Erinyes. @Crake suggested that I might want to broaden my horizons there and with the discussion this morning I figured the IC perspective of one of them might be interesting to show. They are unhappy with their current outlook on life generally, but it is also not wholly impossible that their appreciation of law and fairness might slowly push some of them into being LN.
     
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    • DragonParadox said:
    He would see this city fall and watching its walls crumble, its mockery of law undone, would be worth inestimably more than the entertainment of one fool's death.
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    What I like about our Erinyes is that they have a proper sense of scale.

    Taking the City of Brass? Impossible in the eyes of most mortals and immortals, but Sarella knows it will be done in time.
    For an even grander example, Mereth seems to believe the Abyss will be sealed eventually.

    I guess if you have lived since the dawn of time and seen the greatest there were fall and die and eternal empires crumble you get that perspective.
     
    DragonParadox said:
    OOC: My first time writing from the perspective of an Erinyes. @Crake suggested that I might want to broaden my horizons there and with the discussion this morning I figured the IC perspective of one of them might be interesting to show. They are not unhappy with their current outlook on life generally, but it is also not wholly impossible that their appreciation of law and fairness might slowly push some of them into being LN.
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    Easier to do when law isn't being constantly twisted into a parody of itself to serve others interests.

    Or others amusement.
     
    [X] Snowfire
    //
    Implying that the rumors about Viserys might be untrue run into the problem that the Seven (Father?) explicitely outed us as the antichrist. That was ic?
     
    @Snowfire I expect the angel will ask after our identity/agenda after we go after Lucans. If not so bluntly, do we have a reason for why we are so heavily, and expensively warded despite appearing as a simple begging brother?
     
    One Autumn Leaf said:
    I see splintering them as the way Bloodraven had set it up. Multiple denomination of faith and different ideas of what the Seven are and represent. You make the assumption that civil war will occur immediately after they split. How long until we invade Westeros again? Last I remembered it was a couple of months till we would be ready. Unless they can gather the resources to fight a holy civil war immediately after this conclave then I simply do not see it happening as we will have taken over by then and do everything in our power to stop it including calling another conclave to hash it out.

    As for the notion of directly using the Seven Chosen to humble the Seven. It is an interesting concept but not only would you have to turn Lucan who has a divine order to kill us, but you would also have to convince the Seven themselves (including the God who sent the order) that he was wrong to have committed the atrocities that put them in power and pay the Old Gods reparations that will satisfy the Old Gods. Unless our Diplo score is good enough to convince gods I don't see this plan working. After all the people who pray to them don't see the Andal Invasions as wrong. Not only that but it leaves a united faith to play politics whenever it needs to and I would rather have them squabble rather than deal with their politics.

    I see the splintering as the best way because 1) It makes it so that a dominant religion in the region is too busy squabbling amongst itself rather than try to make political maneuvers on the crown. 2) Will give the Old Gods vengeance and peace of mind as they now don't have to worry about squabbling people cutting trees en mass because they are too busy squabbling( and because we are ruling). 3) Make it a whole lot easier to push for religious acceptance and tolerance as the dominant faith is so busy squabbling with it self that they won't attack the other minority faiths at the risk of being seen as unjust or having lost their way.
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    You have touched on what I think are some of the base differences of our assumptions here. I don't think the civil war will start immidiatly in blood, but it will start in the form of arguments, it will start small and be enflamed by deep ones and devils, enemies of the faith of the seven that are not the OG.

    I think that breaking the faith will cause more resentment and anger than not doing so will cause, and to a greater degree than you seem to think, by (abstract) orders of magnitude. I think that what you frame as "squabbling" will easily be turned to violence by bad actors as people who follow the mother will feel betrayed those of their Kith and kin that cleave to the father or the crone instead.

    Define "Turn"

    No, seriously, 'turn' is something I read as "getting an enemy to sign on with Viserys" we don't need to do that. We just need to get Lucan to look at what his gods have done. He is not a rabid fanatic. He might be a fanatic, but that considering he is fanatic about his ideals, all we have to do is point him

    Do what Syrax did to Viserys to him, but, with his gods as the focus of the mirror. Not to break his faith, but so that he can help them

    Do the same to their outsider servitors.


    Get the support of the chosen, the outsiders then talk to the seven. Force them to confront the actions of the past and ask them to take responsibility . (And if you think Goldfish can whip a surprisingly awesome Diplo vote, I'm gonna blow your mind on that one if I get the chance). No need to "turn" the chosen and outsiders, they just have to agree with this one thing. And we have so many levers to help with that.

    "Make it a whole lot easier to push for religious acceptance and tolerance as the dominant faith is so busy squabbling with it self that they won't attack the other minority faiths at the risk of being seen as unjust or having lost their way."

    I'm trying to be nice, I really am, so take these words and multiply the force with which I say them by like a lot:

    "When people start "squabbling" (and it escalates to killing) about things, espically faith, espically when it is kin against kin, AND faith, a sub-set will not care about looking nice, being seen as fair. They will be hurt, confused, looking for someone to blame. This subset will cause greater fear and hate and grow over time, and the scars will linger, will pass down.

    Viserys did this! He's the cause! Him and his snake and tree! He needs to pay for his crimes against us, against those we love that he has hurt!

    "Yes" ,say the devil's, "yes", say the mind flayers.

    "Yes" says the pain in humans hearts, turned to anger because it hurts less, because you can do something to what you blame, at least try, and then they attack what they can. Those local mages, those weirwood's in the village over.
    No need for fiends or gods or Abberations for that last one.

    Squabbling is reframing to the point of deception, neighbor, it is only true for the first two weeks or so.

    Spit the pantheon, sure, if that's the best path we find, but do not let the faith know that we have done so. And no matter what, I do believe that if we split the seven as gods, we can convince them to, all, speratly, try to keep the peace between the different sub-faiths. But go for the church directly and... Well, DP plays this shit straight, no matter weather you asset that "squabbling" is an accurate discriptor or not
     
    I was gonna edit my post, clean it up, but, I'm gonna go an take a break for a few hours or so. Excuse me.

    Edit: apologies for the messiness of my last post, it could do with some ploishing, and failed to address all of your, (and any of @egoo's posts, (sozz man) but I didn't just want to not respond to your points).
     
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    zxzx24 said:
    @Snowfire I expect the angel will ask after our identity/agenda after we go after Lucans. If not so bluntly, do we have a reason for why we are so heavily, and expensively warded despite appearing as a simple begging brother?
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    Please tell me how he's meant to be able to tell that we're warded? Mind Blank just makes us look completely, well, blank. Nothing special here, no sir.

    Unless Lucan has done divinations on us, in which case I expect @DragonParadox to insert a break so we can format an answer.
     
    BeepSmile said:
    You have touched on what I think are some of the base differences of our assumptions here. I don't think the civil war will start immidiatly in blood, but it will start in the form of arguments, it will start small and be enflamed by deep ones and devils, enemies of the faith of the seven that are not the OG.

    I think that breaking the faith will cause more resentment and anger than not doing so will cause, and to a greater degree than you seem to think, by (abstract) orders of magnitude. I think that what you frame as "squabbling" will easily be turned to violence by bad actors as people who follow the mother will feel betrayed those of their Kith and kin that cleave to the father or the crone instead.

    Define "Turn"

    No, seriously, 'turn' is something I read as "getting an enemy to sign on with Viserys" we don't need to do that. We just need to get Lucan to look at what his gods have done. He is not a rabid fanatic. He might be a fanatic, but that considering he is fanatic about his ideals, all we have to do is point him

    Do what Syrax did to Viserys to him, but, with his gods as the focus of the mirror. Not to break his faith, but so that he can help them

    Do the same to their outsider servitors.


    Get the support of the chosen, the outsiders then talk to the seven. Force them to confront the actions of the past and ask them to take responsibility . (And if you think Goldfish can whip a surprisingly awesome Diplo vote, I'm gonna blow your mind on that one if I get the chance). No need to "turn" the chosen and outsiders, they just have to agree with this one thing. And we have so many levers to help with that.

    "Make it a whole lot easier to push for religious acceptance and tolerance as the dominant faith is so busy squabbling with it self that they won't attack the other minority faiths at the risk of being seen as unjust or having lost their way."

    I'm trying to be nice, I really am, so take these words and multiply the force with which I say them by like a lot:

    "When people start "squabbling" (and it escalates to killing) about things, espically faith, espically when it is kin against kin, AND faith, a sub-set will not care about looking nice, being seen as fair. They will be hurt, confused, looking for someone to blame. This subset will cause greater fear and hate and grow over time, and the scars will linger, will pass down.

    Viserys did this! He's the cause! Him and his snake and tree! He needs to pay for his crimes against us, against those we love that he has hurt!

    "Yes" ,say the devil's, "yes", say the mind flayers.

    "Yes" says the pain in humans hearts, turned to anger because it hurts less, because you can do something to what you blame, at least try, and then they attack what they can. Those local mages, those weirwood's in the village over.
    No need for fiends or gods or Abberations for that last one.

    Squabbling is reframing to the point of deception, neighbor, it is only true for the first two weeks or so.

    Spit the pantheon, sure, if that's the best path we find, but do not let the faith know that we have done so. And no matter what, I do believe that if we split the seven as gods, we can convince them to, all, speratly, try to keep the peace between the different sub-faiths. But go for the church directly and... Well, DP plays this shit straight, no matter weather you asset that "squabbling" is an accurate discriptor or not
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    I obviously can't give Viserys' perspective on this, since it's for you guys to decide and evolving, but the reason Bloodraven went for this is because he is counting on a strong state to keep the religious violence down. That is not to say he is not expecting that harm comes of this, schisms are always going to be mentally damaging to the faithful. Bloodraven is not playing to minimize human suffering, but to ensure the Seven Kingdoms are safe and secure as well as a place where he can grow the power of the Old Gods though Blood magic without Septons being able to complain effectively. His objective is primarily to stop the Long Night from swallowing all life.
     
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    DragonParadox said:
    I obviously can't give Viserys' perspective on this, since it's for you guys to decide and evolving, but the reason bloodraven went for this is because he is counting on a strong state to keep the religious violence down. That is not to say he is not expecting that harm comes of this, schisms are always going to be mentally damaging to the faithful. Bloodraven is not playing to minimize human suffering, but to nesure the Seven Kingdoms are safe and secure as well as a place where he can grow the power of the Old Gods though Blood magic without Septons being able to complain effectively. His objective is primarily to stop the Long Night from wallowing all life.
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    ...I honestly don't see what seems to be the problem with Bloodraven's approach to this :/
     
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